Need TTMOT’s help Onan to MFD

[ocgrant]

Tom,
I remember you saying there might be some connector on one of my engines that can get the Onan data to my VV7 or MFD? Do I need to convert this to n2k? Please point me to what I need to do to get it on my n2k network.

 

[Shaps]

Grant, is this the writeup you are looking for?

http://clubsearay.com/index.php?threads/diesel-view-vessel-view-upgrade.96502/#post-1157160

 

[ocgrant]

That’s it thanks...
I am going to order the maretron parts to get it on my n2k network also.

 

[Skybolt]

post #3 in this post speaks to exactly that.

http://www.clubsearay.com/index.php?threads/onan-generator-on-nmea.90971/

But are you asking about the main engines or the generator? Sounds like the genset?

EDIT: oops you posted while I was. Good luck!

 

[ttmott]

Hey Grant @ocgrant
Did you get your questions answered?
BTW, I've found the best availability and pricing for Maretron is at BOE and that's not a sales pitch...
Tom

 

[Henry Boyd]

Tom,
Was the interface on the gen a Sea Ray part, or Onan? I want to do the same to ours and have been getting the runaround from Onan.

 

[ttmott]

Tom,
Was the interface on the gen a Sea Ray part, or Onan? I want to do the same to ours and have been getting the runaround from Onan.

Hi Henry
The Network Interface Module (NIM) that installs within the Onan eQD generators is an Onan part. They can be either SAE J1939 or Smartcraft. The Smartcraft can be converted to J1939. Here is a link to the Cummans Onan Marine Accessories manual where you can find the NIM part numbers.
https://www.simholland.nl/mod/Uploa...talog-e-Series-Marine-(F-1379_I9_2014-04).pdf

 

[alnav]

Tom,
Was the interface on the gen a Sea Ray part, or Onan? I want to do the same to ours and have been getting the runaround from Onan.

Henry, the Network Interface Module is Onan part number 0541-1195-XX (XX being model dependent). If your boat has (or had) generator data showing up on Smartcraft, then you should have one. If not, in addition to the NIM, there is a kit to convert from the NIM directly to NMEA 2000, A045Z609. The kit seems to include the Maretron J1939 converter, it may or may not be cheaper to go with the kit.
I've attached PDF's about the NIM as well as the converter.

 

[Henry Boyd]

Henry, the Network Interface Module is Onan part number 0541-1195-XX (XX being model dependent). If your boat has (or had) generator data showing up on Smartcraft, then you should have one. If not, in addition to the NIM, there is a kit to convert from the NIM directly to NMEA 2000, A045Z609. The kit seems to include the Maretron J1939 converter, it may or may not be cheaper to go with the kit.
I've attached PDF's about the NIM as well as the converter.

Tom & Al,

Thanks. This is for the Onan 7kw diesel on the Sabre, so no Smartcraft. The literature that came with it says there is an optional data interface. When I contacted Onan, they sent me to a dealer. I’ve contacted two dealers who have not really been interested in helping to either tell me if the interface was there, or if it could be retrofitted. You’ve actually given me more than they have. I wished I’d looked at this earlier as I just came back from the boat. Is the Nim mounted externally? If so I’m pretty sure that I don’t have it. But if it’s available it should be very do-able. I don’t know the model number off hand but the accessory brochure shows the exact remote that we have on the electrical panel in the cabin, so it looks like the right path.

 

[alnav]

Tom & Al,

Thanks. This is for the Onan 7kw diesel on the Sabre, so no Smartcraft. The literature that came with it says there is an optional data interface. When I contacted Onan, they sent me to a dealer. I’ve contacted two dealers who have not really been interested in helping to either tell me if the interface was there, or if it could be retrofitted. You’ve actually given me more than they have. I wished I’d looked at this earlier as I just came back from the boat. Is the Nim mounted externally? If so I’m pretty sure that I don’t have it. But if it’s available it should be very do-able. I don’t know the model number off hand but the accessory brochure shows the exact remote that we have on the electrical panel in the cabin, so it looks like the right path.

Henry, I'm not surprised. When I was first researching how to get the generator data to a new VV, the shop foreman at my Sea Ray dealer called his "best Onan guy" who was clueless. My NIM is mounted in the box that is fronted by the local display/control panel; I have to take the top of that box off to access it. Anyway, if you don't find one you just need the J1939 version of the NIM. While it looks like it comes with the cables to connect the NIM to the generator, you will also need a 12-pin Deutsche connector to run from the J1939-NMEA 2000 converter to the NIM. I ended up using the Yacht Devices YDEG-04 J1939-NMEA 2000 converter for my final installation. It's somewhat less expensive than the Maretron and I am using a couple of their other devices.

 

[ttmott]

Henry, I'm not surprised. When I was first researching how to get the generator data to a new VV, the shop foreman at my Sea Ray dealer called his "best Onan guy" who was clueless. My NIM is mounted in the box that is fronted by the local display/control panel; I have to take the top of that box off to access it. Anyway, if you don't find one you just need the J1939 version of the NIM. While it looks like it comes with the cables to connect the NIM to the generator, you will also need a 12-pin Deutsche connector to run from the J1939-NMEA 2000 converter to the NIM. I ended up using the Yacht Devices YDEG-04 J1939-NMEA 2000 converter for my final installation. It's somewhat less expensive than the Maretron and I am using a couple of their other devices.

Al -
Is that device N2K registered and certified? Their web site isn't clear on that.
Can it send a data request to the NIM for generator hours? Even though the Maretron does send the request I can't yet view the hours but still working on it.
How did you program it for the data set, source address, and incidence?

 

[b_arrington]

Tom & Al,

Thanks. This is for the Onan 7kw diesel on the Sabre, so no Smartcraft. The literature that came with it says there is an optional data interface. When I contacted Onan, they sent me to a dealer. I’ve contacted two dealers who have not really been interested in helping to either tell me if the interface was there, or if it could be retrofitted. You’ve actually given me more than they have. I wished I’d looked at this earlier as I just came back from the boat. Is the Nim mounted externally? If so I’m pretty sure that I don’t have it. But if it’s available it should be very do-able. I don’t know the model number off hand but the accessory brochure shows the exact remote that we have on the electrical panel in the cabin, so it looks like the right path.

Henry for some reason Sabre/Back Cove think we don’t want generator data integrated with the rest of our systems. I called up there and they told me they don’t order the generators with the network module. I’d bet a donut you don’t have one

When installed the NIM does not mount externally. For my 7kw unit on the 34 it would be located on the left side of the gen, bottom edge, kinda in the middle. IIRC the plug would be exposed without a cover. Otherwise there’s a blanking plate.

For the 9kw on my 37, the NIM actually mounts behind the control panel. Not sure how the cable routes, but the NIM itself is hidden behind the panel. If you want to shoot me your Onan serial number or model number/rev I’ll pop it into the Cummins support portal and try to see where it would mount.

 

[alnav]

Al -
Is that device N2K registered and certified? Their web site isn't clear on that.
Can it send a data request to the NIM for generator hours? Even though the Maretron does send the request I can't yet view the hours but still working on it.
How did you program it for the data set, source address, and incidence?

Tom, Not sure on the gen hours, but their devices are programmed through the installation field (N2K Data Field) with proprietary commands listed in the UM. Those fields can be viewed with Maretrons N2Kanlyzer or yacht devices network module like the YDNR02. With one of their network modules you can use a free SW app from them called Can Log viewer that programs their modules.

Tom, I didn't realize there was such a thing until I found the nmea.org site, but yes, the YD devices are certified.
You and I were chasing gen hours a couple of years ago, and no, I haven't successfully gotten them to display either.

I actually worked with the YD software developers (in Estonia, I think) while they created the capability for the YDEG-04 to work with Onan generators. They got the basics done pretty quickly but we weren't able to get engine hours to come back. They believed they were sending the proper signal request. We even tried to contact Onan to get some help but as Henry found, whoever it is at Onan who knows anything about it doesn't apparently have a phone or email.

The YDEG-04 can be programmed as Orlando notes, but it also has an imbedded microSD card slot that reads a configuration text file; that's how I have done it. The device can also serve as a gateway for Smartcraft as well as several other marine engine types and each has a set of parameters that can be invoked via the text file.

The YD device I like best is their Wi-Fi Gateway YDWG-02. It can be a stand alone access point or can join an onboard network as a client. I use it to enable several navigation apps including Navionics. The coolest feature is data logging. Sounds like Orlando has its big brother that includes a router.

 

[Henry Boyd]

Henry for some reason Sabre/Back Cove think we don’t want generator data integrated with the rest of our systems. I called up there and they told me they don’t order the generators with the network module. I’d bet a donut you don’t have one

When installed the NIM does not mount externally. For my 7kw unit on the 34 it would be located on the left side of the gen, bottom edge, kinda in the middle. IIRC the plug would be exposed without a cover. Otherwise there’s a blanking plate.

For the 9kw on my 37, the NIM actually mounts behind the control panel. Not sure how the cable routes, but the NIM itself is hidden behind the panel. If you want to shoot me your Onan serial number or model number/rev I’ll pop it into the Cummins support portal and try to see where it would mount.

Thanks Brad,

I’ll be up to the boat next week to start stripping the pods for new paint. I’ll get the model and serial numbers then. I’ll also confirm the size.

 

[Skybolt]

I had deleted the my original post because I posted it too soon by accident and editing it was taking to long.

@alnav - thanks for filling in the blanks.

@ttmott - here is the user guide, they give file examples for programming.

https://www.yachtd.com/products/engine_gateway.html

My original post made reference to using the N2K installation data fields and Martrons N2K analyzer for updating specific fields. All of there devices can be programmed that way for the most part. Also the have network devices, YDNR-02 for example allows access through their Can Log Viewer program (free) to program any of their devices through SW.

 

[Skybolt]

... Sounds like Orlando has its big brother that includes a router.

Yes, I have the YDNR-02, it is a real nice piece of tech. I use it to convert N2K Nav data to 0183 AP data. But it also allows N2K data to be displayed in configurable gauge formats as dash board pages. Not to mention the data logging and cloud support. Real nice addition under $300.

 

[ttmott]

Tom, I didn't realize there was such a thing until I found the nmea.org site, but yes, the YD devices are certified.
You and I were chasing gen hours a couple of years ago, and no, I haven't successfully gotten them to display either.

I actually worked with the YD software developers (in Estonia, I think) while they created the capability for the YDEG-04 to work with Onan generators. They got the basics done pretty quickly but we weren't able to get engine hours to come back. They believed they were sending the proper signal request. We even tried to contact Onan to get some help but as Henry found, whoever it is at Onan who knows anything about it doesn't apparently have a phone or email.

The YDEG-04 can be programmed as Orlando notes, but it also has an imbedded microSD card slot that reads a configuration text file; that's how I have done it. The device can also serve as a gateway for Smartcraft as well as several other marine engine types and each has a set of parameters that can be invoked via the text file.

The YD device I like best is their Wi-Fi Gateway YDWG-02. It can be a stand alone access point or can join an onboard network as a client. I use it to enable several navigation apps including Navionics. The coolest feature is data logging. Sounds like Orlando has its big brother that includes a router.

Thanks - cool stuff.
Regarding the NMEA certification; Our networks like NMEA 2000 are becoming more and more integrated with the boats systems and, in my case, directly interfacing with the safety systems. As a result I can't afford the risk of something crashing or failing a system because it's not verified NMEA 2000 compatible. NMEA like UL or CE establish standards and certify that the hardware comply to the standard.

 

[ocgrant]

Tom,

Yes sorry been traveling. I found and ordered a Maretron converter and the cable so I should get it this weekend. Now I need to install into my N2k network. Once installed i need to configure it in my VV703 and my Raymarine MFD's, not sure what that takes. Here is a picture of my network box in my geneset, do I need to do anything here or just unplug the VV cable and install the Maretron cable? Also, how many devices on the N2K network before I need another power cable?

 

[ttmott]

The NIM shown is configured to output to the Smartcraft CAN V network. It needs to be converted from Smartcraft to J1939. To do that simply cut the W2 Jumper like the jumper next to the connector was cut.
You will need then to disconnect the NIM harness from the boat's engine harness (that is a standard Smartcraft connector). Purchase another Smartcraft yellow capped resistor (same as the one on the NIM harness inside of the generator) and replace the one at the engine side of the NIM harness then install the removed one into the engine harness where you disconnected the NIM harness. To be clear the two resistors on the generator NIM harness are CAN 3 resistors and the one installed on the engine harness is a CAN 1 / 2 resistor. Cut the Smartcraft connector off the NIM harness and install the J1939 connector that comes with the Maretron J2K100 module. That harness should now be configured as connector on the NIM and a yellow capped resistor on the harness near that connector then the harness routes to wherever you will mount the Maretron module then a second yellow capped resistor and the J1939 connector. Then the engine's harness where the NIM harness was disconnected the resistor removed from the NIM harness installed.
So, regarding the NMEA 2000 network; there are two types of devices used, those that require power from the network and those that are powered otherwise. Most Maretron devices are powered from the NMEA 2000 network but things like your VV and chartplotters are powered outside of the network. For instruments powered by the NMEA 2000 network there is a load equivalency factor and that factor is used in the design of the network. There are also limitations in NMEA 2000 line lengths that must be considered. Maretron has a great little App to help in the design and it's a free download. However, if you are going to limit to only the one Maretron instrument on the network I wouldn't worry too much about it other than making sure the power tap is within the line length limitation. Take a look at this drawing which is my boat; it shows the integration of the generator and how I did the power on the network; this is a fairly extensive network BTW.

 

[ttmott]

BTW on wiring the Maretron J1939 connector, the wire in pin C of the Smartcraft connector that you are cutting off is CAN Hi or + and the wire in pin D is CAN Lo or -. Those wires (there are only two wires) must correspond with the CAN Hi and CAN Lo on the J1939 connector which is in the instructions. Keep in mind that in any twisted pair data system like J1939, Smartcraft, and NMEA 2000 it is important to keep the wires twisted as shown to the best extent possible. This is what arrangement should look like (don't worry about the brown wire which is a ground you won't need):