NMEA2000 and Smart-Craft

Discussion in 'Electrical Stuff' started by kkalsch, Jun 8, 2012.

  1. Gunn

    Gunn Well-Known Member TECHNICAL Contributor

    Oct 4, 2006
    Potomac River - MD
    2003 280DA and 1995 Sea Ray 175
    Twin 4.3l and 3.0l, all w/ AlphaI GenII drives
    Did you do all that yourself? Meaning was your boat non-SmartCraft enabled (but capable) when you purchased it and you added the gauges, harnesses, etc?

    Tom
     
  2. bajturner

    bajturner Well-Known Member PLATINUM Sponsor

    Aug 17, 2010
    Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
    2008 44 Sedan Bridge
    2017 Avon 380DL RIB w/ Yamaha 40
    2019 Sea-Doo GTX
    2020 Sea-Doo RXT-X
    Twin QSC-500 HO
    No, nothing that complicated. The boat was full-SmartCraft with the gauges, etc. so it was a pretty simple install. The MercMonitor was literally just pop it in with a new harness that plugged right in where the speedometer was. The radio required a bit of cutting because it is slightly thicker than the Raymarine...my marina did that over the winter while it was inside for service. The GPS was just a matter of two mounting bolts and connect to power...the marina also did that while inside as well as relocating the fuel gauge. NMEA2K bus is a simple connection to power and then plug-and-play. At the same time they installed the radio and GPS the marina installed an XM antenna/receiver on the arch which connects over N2K (cool weather charts on the 720!), as well as trim tab sensors that connect to N2K over a Garmin adapter. They charged me about 4 hours labour, I think.
     
  3. dougflink

    dougflink New Member

    10
    Jul 19, 2008
    Stillwater, MN
    390 MY 2005
    MERCRUISER 8.1 LITER Inboard
    Henry, I have a 2005 searay 390MY (new to me) - twin 8.1 mercuisers. Full smartcraft system with engine data, depth, rudder, tanks, ... I have added a MercMonitor to bridge to NMEA2000 MFDs and instruments (raymarine e7d, c125, i70). Most works great, but I am getting 2 instances of rudder from the MercMonitor. One shows correct rudder angle, the other just shows 27degrees starboard. Raymarine displays flip between 27 and the actual angle about once a second. Any ideas to suppress bad rudder data?
    ImageUploadedByTapatalk1341030783.144204.jpg
     
  4. alnav

    alnav Well-Known Member

    Sep 16, 2009
    West River, MD
    40 MY
    QSB 425
    My 40MY has a rudder angle indicator as part of Smartcraft (that only reads on VesselView) but also has a rudder angle transducer as part of the autopilot installation that tells the autopilot where the rudder is; I think this is a typical installation. I am guessing you are now getting both indicators' signals into the same data stream. I would think you need to turn off the sentences from the Smartcraft indicator since it's only for display while the autopilot sensor is vital for making the autopilot work. Hard right rudder is the indication I get on the autopilot that it's lost rudder reference so you might be having a problem with that. You should be able to access the Smartcraft rudder screen and see where it thinks the rudder is. Don't know your new system (I don't see a familiar autopilot head, is it one of your displays shown?) but I would guess you should be able to access a screen that shows you the autopilot rudder indicator to see if it matches the Smartcraft as well as where you know the rudder to be.
     
  5. Henry Boyd

    Henry Boyd Well-Known Member

    Apr 24, 2007
    Newburyport, on the peaceful and serene Merrimack
    ‘09 Sabre 38 Hardtop Express “Serenity”
    Volvo D6 w/IPS450 Pods
    Just getting to this discussion. I think Al is on the right track if you have an autopilot. If you don't have an autopilot, it may be an issue where the RM 'thinks' you do because it is seeing rudder angle data. You might also look at the set up screens on the RM displays. I can't be more helpful as my electronics are all last year's model.

    Henry
     
  6. dougflink

    dougflink New Member

    10
    Jul 19, 2008
    Stillwater, MN
    390 MY 2005
    MERCRUISER 8.1 LITER Inboard
    Thanks for the input. My boat does not have an autopilot (yet). There is only one sensor for the rudders, and it is mounted on the starboard control arm in the aft bilge. It connects to a smartcraft harness on the starboard engine along with the depth transducer and starboard fuel level sensor. The same harness on the port engine connects only to the port fuel level sensor. All the smartcraft data is displayed on the SC5000 and the newly added MercMonitor at the helm. The MercMonitor was added because it will act as a gateway - putting all the SC data on the N2K backbone. When I look at the sentences on the N2K network, I see 2 instances of ruder (instance 0, and instance 1), both originating at the MercMonitor. It is interesting that the default/no reading indication for rudder is hard starboard. The MercMonitor must be seeing something on the SC network that it thinks is an inoperative rudder sensor.

    I think this is what I will research this weekend:
    Look for second rudder angle sensor in the aft Bilge
    Look to see if anything is plugged into the the SC harness on the port engine

    Any other thoughts?



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  7. kaz911

    kaz911 Active Member

    Jan 24, 2011
    In Transit -> London
    Boatless
    Boatless
    It is a Twin Engine MercMonitor - have you checked in settings to see if it expects two rudder sensors - one for Port and one for starboard? On the "new" Axius engines each rudder is independent so it might be the MercMonitor expects to rudder sensors - but one can be disabled in MM? (Settings/Ext Sensor)

    Which software version is your MM? My "old" boat had v.5.01 it think it was and I bought that in March last year.

    Question: Did you guys with Garmins need to install a separate GPS pod for the MM? Mine would not receive the GPS data from my 720s - but only from a garmin POD gps. I would get time from the 720 but not LAT/LNG - so Eco Mode did not work before I put the gps pod in.
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2012
  8. barryg

    barryg Member

    966
    Jun 24, 2007
    Fort Lauderdale
    2005 320 Sundancer, Garmin 5208
    Twin V-Drives 350 Mags
    Hey guys,

    Can you tell me the best place (price ) to buy the MercMonitors? If you have twin Inboards do you need to buy two of them?? Been wanting to get all that data on my Garmin 5208 for a while!!
    Thanks!
    Barry
     
  9. dougflink

    dougflink New Member

    10
    Jul 19, 2008
    Stillwater, MN
    390 MY 2005
    MERCRUISER 8.1 LITER Inboard
    I bought mine from www.veradoclubparts.com. They have the Level 3 MercMonitor for $899.95. This single unit will handle passing the data from both engines to the N2K bus. It will only display data from one of your 2 engines at a time. The Eco stuff is not much use for inboards (no trim), but the MPG display is for both engines.


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  10. barryg

    barryg Member

    966
    Jun 24, 2007
    Fort Lauderdale
    2005 320 Sundancer, Garmin 5208
    Twin V-Drives 350 Mags
    Thanks Doug. How difficult is it to install? So do I keep the Smartcraft gauges I already have, or just replace one of them?
     
  11. dougflink

    dougflink New Member

    10
    Jul 19, 2008
    Stillwater, MN
    390 MY 2005
    MERCRUISER 8.1 LITER Inboard
    I have V6.01. I have played with the Ext Sensors steering on and off. I get the same result either way - 2 instances of Rudder. I have discovered that the second (wrong) instance is reading a constant number that is equal to the offset I enter on the MM to zero the output on the N2K instruments. I am also having to select the "reverse steering angle" on the MM to get correct output to N2K instruments. So, it appears that both the correct and incorrect angles are related, but I cannot find anything in setup that differentiates or disables either. If I set the MM to single engine mode, the second angle goes away, but so does everything else from the port engine. Raymarine instruments seem to see both instances as one, causing the output to bounce between then. I am perplexed.


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    Last edited: Jul 8, 2012
  12. alnav

    alnav Well-Known Member

    Sep 16, 2009
    West River, MD
    40 MY
    QSB 425
    Doug, did you try playing with the steering offset in the Smartcraft interface to see if that setting is having an impact on the problem?
     
  13. kaz911

    kaz911 Active Member

    Jan 24, 2011
    In Transit -> London
    Boatless
    Boatless
    I replaced my Speedo on my 210 Select. My brain is tuned to knots so the MPH/KM/h was unusable anyway. Installation time was about 1 1/2 hour for everything. If I have to do it again - I would say about 30 minutes to install.
     
  14. kaz911

    kaz911 Active Member

    Jan 24, 2011
    In Transit -> London
    Boatless
    Boatless
    It is starting to sound like a software bug - or your engine things it has a rudder sensor installed.

    I'm a novice at Multi engine MM - but do you have the SmartCraft Dual Engine Harness installed between the engines? (example part 84-889279t02) - I think that is used to "sync" the twin engines Smart Craft system. Else (according to my fading memory) you have to start starboard engine first - and then port for SmartCraft to be semi happy.
     
  15. kaz911

    kaz911 Active Member

    Jan 24, 2011
    In Transit -> London
    Boatless
    Boatless
    One thing I came to think of when I installed mine. One of the Merc Specialists I spoke to - said when you install MM - make sure you make a COMPLETE system reset - so the MM becomes the MASTER and all other SC's "slaves". Else you can have 2 devices competing about being the SmartCraft master.

    But that then requires you to recalibrate everything. (Tanks, trim etc)

    So what I did was I took ALL SC1000's off the bus. Installed the MM and went through the "Autoconfig" - then added one SC1000 at the time while "factory" resetting each SC1000. I dont know if that was needed. But it worked.
     
  16. dougflink

    dougflink New Member

    10
    Jul 19, 2008
    Stillwater, MN
    390 MY 2005
    MERCRUISER 8.1 LITER Inboard
    Easy install. I just added it to the CS network. I needed to add a 4 port connector box because my old configuration did not have a port available. Very easy to do. The connector boxes just "daisy chain" on to the next, with the last one having a terminator plugged in. There are many examples of hookup strategies in the MM installation manual. Software setup is a bit more tricky, and I did not find the documentation nearly deep enough to be helpful. Mostly trial and error and hints from this forum. I wish I could just talk to the programmer who wrote the code for this device.


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  17. dougflink

    dougflink New Member

    10
    Jul 19, 2008
    Stillwater, MN
    390 MY 2005
    MERCRUISER 8.1 LITER Inboard
    Thanks for the idea. I tried changing offset on the vessel view (SC5000). It had no effect on the N2K output from the MM.


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  18. dougflink

    dougflink New Member

    10
    Jul 19, 2008
    Stillwater, MN
    390 MY 2005
    MERCRUISER 8.1 LITER Inboard
    I don't have engine sync, so the engine harnesses are not connected other than both going to the same 4 port JBox. So I need to figure out where this fictional rudder is being created. I know it is being output by the MM because I can view the N2K sentences in real time on my computer. Any ideas on how to "look" at the data on the SC network? My SC5000 system view only shows one rudder?? The MM can be set in single, dual, triple, or quad engine mode. The MM display will only show data from one engine, except that MPG uses total fuel flow. When I set it to single engine and set it to Starboard, I only get one rudder output (the correct one) on the N2K net. When I set it to single and set it to port, I see a rudder angle (the wrong one) equal to the offset on the MM, and it does not change with rudder movement. When I set the MM to dual with starboard as the engine to display, I get both rudder angles again.

    My working premise is that the SC J boxes and harnesses are "dumb", and the sensors connected to the network are "smart", and announce what they are and the data they put on the network. The displays (MM, and SC5000 vessel view, tach, and 4 way gauges) just read the the data presented by the sensors and display it. The MM then also converts the SC data to N2K sentences and places them on the N2K bus. When you mentioned resetting the whole system, it made me wonder if there is some "smart" component on the engine harness that could be reset??



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  19. kaz911

    kaz911 Active Member

    Jan 24, 2011
    In Transit -> London
    Boatless
    Boatless
    I think the Engines are the "stupid" part. Once they start up - they just report what they 'own'.

    The only easy way to scan Merc data is with a Quicksilver DDT? scanner or Rinda Scanner or Rinda PC Software.

    http://www.rinda.com/marine/marine.htm

    You could use an digital storage oscilloscope but you would kill yourself in packet sniffing and manual decoding.

    And by sync - i did not mean RPM sync. I meant make the engines talk on a "dedicated" line first to figure out who is the boss. :)

    Do you se any difference if you start port engine first and then starboard - or the other way around? It might work with both engines being connected via the junction box - but I'm not sure.

    But why not call Mercruiser's hotline and ask. Your MercMonitor is so new that it is still in warranty. They might be able to point you in the right direction.
     
  20. dougflink

    dougflink New Member

    10
    Jul 19, 2008
    Stillwater, MN
    390 MY 2005
    MERCRUISER 8.1 LITER Inboard
    Thanks for the ideas. No difference on starting either engine first. I will try calling the hotline.

    Here is the schematic from my searay manual. ImageUploadedByTapatalk HD1341788925.924510.jpg





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