POLL! Hours to remove single engine 280da

[PlayDate]

Half a day to pull it which would include lunch and time to complain about being too big or old to do this kind of work on a small engine room.

 

[El Capitan]

I have gotten into an argument with my local workshop regarding work hours, so I would really appreciate if there´s anyone that can give me an honest estimation under the following starting conditions:

- Boat´s on dry land in the shop
- Sterndrive is off
- Enging hatch is off and out of the way
- Nothing´s stuck (bolts etc.)
- Single engine 6.2 MPI= good workspace in the engine compartment

What would it take to remove the engine and put it down on a freight pallet (no fastening), including:

- Exhaust pipes
- 4 engine mount bolts
- Fuel hose
- Water hose
- Remove shiftplate (3-4 bolts)
- Main electrical contact
- Mercathode wires
- (forgetting anything?)

Not taking in account if anything´s stuck, just a standard job like you´ve done it countless times. You've got a big brand new tractor with the right tools/accessories on it for the job and good workspace around (and you´re a certified Mercruiser shop ).
Please leave a comment if you've done a similar job or just guessing (that's fine).

Keep in mind shops charge flag or book hours, not actual clock hours.

What always pisses me off is if there’s an add on job I want done “…while you’re there…” they still charge as if it was a net new one-off job.

It’s double dipping I tell ya.

I voted 4 hours assuming those are book hours.
Actual time 2 hours.

 

[RobinK]

Keep in mind shops charge flag or book hours, not actual clock hours.

What always pisses me off is if there’s an add on job I want done “…while you’re there…” they still charge as if it was a net new one-off job.

It’s double dipping I tell ya.

I voted 4 hours assuming those are book hours.
Actual time 2 hours.

Agreed in full!

 

[RobinK]

@RobinK Let me get this right. You think you should be charged less at a shop that has done this job 100 times as opposed to a shop that has only done it 2-3 times?

Well, you answered your own question I guess? Yes, I expect lower or equivalent hours from a shop that has done this a 100 times, as opposed to a shop that has only done it 2-3 times. Not double! What's unclear?
I've spoken to a couple of different other authorized shops, which confirms that if everything goes well, it's about a 2-4 hour job. And bare in mind that they will put some on their estimation in case I would bring it to them. One even said that if everything's prepared to just go all in on the removal, it could be done in an hour. But then he mentioned bringing the tools back and forth etc., so add a little to it. Not 8 freaking hours.

I expect sensible labour hours, which correspond to reality and what one can expect from a normally (or slightly above due to the Authorized Mercruiser-stamp) gifted mechanic.

 

[techmitch]

Well, you answered your own question I guess? Yes, I expect lower or equivalent hours from a shop that has done this a 100 times, as opposed to a shop that has only done it 2-3 times. Not double! What's unclear?
I've spoken to a couple of different other authorized shops, which confirms that if everything goes well, it's about a 2-4 hour job. And bare in mind that they will put some on their estimation in case I would bring it to them. One even said that if everything's prepared to just go all in on the removal, it could be done in an hour. But then he mentioned bringing the tools back and forth etc., so add a little to it. Not 8 freaking hours.

I expect sensible labour hours, which correspond to reality and what one can expect from a normally (or slightly above due to the Authorized Mercruiser-stamp) gifted mechanic.

The job is worth what it's worth no mater who is doing it.
Travel time, gathering tools, clean up etc. is a whole other story.

If you bring your car in for X and the book/computer software time says 7.3 hours and the technician gets it done in 4 hours. How many hours do you think you should have to pay for?

 

[RobinK]

The job is worth what it's worth no mater who is doing it.
Travel time, gathering tools, clean up etc. is a whole other story.

If you bring your car in for X and the book/computer software time says 7.3 hours and the technician gets it done in 4 hours. How many hours do you think you should have to pay for?

Well, I'm sorry but I think you're getting it wrong. What I'm after is how many hours one could expect from a shop doing this job. You keep talking about comparisons. If an unfit mechanic is doing the job, and does it in double time compared to a normally gifted mechanic, would you pay him what he's asking? Are you telling me you think it'll take anyone, regardless of experience, the same amount of hours to do this job? The kid down the street? The old lady two houses away?
Or do you think that there has never been, and never will be, a shop that charges more hours than it took because they most often just get paid because people have no clue? If you don't, wouldn't you question it and bring it up with them before you pay?
Maybe I'm not getting what you're trying to say?

 

[Espos4]

Well, I've removed and installed a 454 with under the exact same condition, by myself, the first time I ever did it, under an hour. That's why I'm puzzled about 9 hours worktime. What are they doing for 9 consecutive hours in a clean, low hour engine compartment?

I appreciate taking your time to comment, but for 2 experienced guys on one engine under the above, optimal conditions?

Did you ask for or get an estimate before the work was done?

 

[RobinK]

Did you ask for or get an estimate before the work was done?

I'm afraid not. I'm really not that blue-eyed normally, I even work with contracts from time to time. For some unknown reason, I thought I didn't need terms to agree upon before hand. Don't ask me why, and go ahead and call me stupid.

To my defense, if I would have demanded some sort of estimation from this guy, he would have said it's to hard to tell. And he wouldn't want to sign something that resticts his labour hours, in case something is seized up etc. So I don't know if it would have made a difference.

 

[RobinK]

The only way is to rig a camera I guess and put a sticker on the boat to inform that they could be filmed. Not to obvious, not to hidden, just within the boundries of the law.

 

[techmitch]

Did you ask for or get an estimate before the work was done?

Excellent question! But let's all keep in mind that there is difference between an estimate and a quote.

 

[RobinK]

Excellent question! But let's all keep in mind that there is difference between an estimate and a quote.

Good point, an estimate doesn't meen anything really. Since the main job here wasn't pulling the engine, it was troubleshooting it, it would have been hard to get him to sign a quote. But, next time woud be a good idea to at least try to agree on the simple parts, like pulling the engine.
He's charged me 5 hours for troubleshooting and the only thing he's done is changing the plugs, rotor and cap. Nothing else. Engine still runs like shit, he's out of ideas and wanted to call a friend and charge me consulting hours for his friend.

Are you getting the level of this mechanic now?

 

[techmitch]

Well, I'm sorry but I think you're getting it wrong. What I'm after is how many hours one could expect from a shop doing this job. You keep talking about comparisons. If an unfit mechanic is doing the job, and does it in double time compared to a normally gifted mechanic, would you pay him what he's asking? Are you telling me you think it'll take anyone, regardless of experience, the same amount of hours to do this job? The kid down the street? The old lady two houses away?
Or do you think that there has never been, and never will be, a shop that charges more hours than it took because they most often just get paid because people have no clue? If you don't, wouldn't you question it and bring it up with them before you pay?
Maybe I'm not getting what you're trying to say?

I'm not getting anything wrong and I surely don't mean to compare, though I would still like to hear your answer to my question.

"If you bring your car in for X and the book/computer software time says 7.3 hours and the technician gets it done in 4 hours. How many hours do you think you should have to pay for?"

Keep in mind, to the best of my knowledge there is no said such book/computer software for estimating this type of work on boats.

 

[RobinK]

I'm not getting anything wrong and I surely don't mean to compare, though I would still like to hear your answer to my question.

"If you bring your car in for X and the book/computer software time says 7.3 hours and the technician gets it done in 4 hours. How many hours do you think you should have to pay for?"

Keep in mind, to the best of my knowledge there is no said such book/computer software for estimating this type of work on boats.

I don't see the point of such an obvious question. Just speak out what your point is. That's what I said earlier also, I dont think there is such an estimated time for these cases. Labour on an engine, sure, but not the boat.

I don't mean to be rude, I feel it's getting agitated so just make your point please.

 

[Espos4]

Good point, an estimate doesn't meen anything really. Since the main job here wasn't pulling the engine, it was troubleshooting it, it would have been hard to get him to sign a quote. But, next time woud be a good idea to at least try to agree on the simple parts, like pulling the engine.
He's charged me 5 hours for troubleshooting and the only thing he's done is changing the plugs, rotor and cap. Nothing else. Engine still runs like shit, he's out of ideas and wanted to call a friend and charge me consulting hours for his friend.

Are you getting the level of this mechanic now?

Yes. He gave up and pulled the motor out before doing a compression, leak down and fuel pressure test??

 

[Pirate Lady]

Was told 2 weeks ago while getting my overheating fixed that my coupler needs replace in next 2 years. They quoted price $250 engine out, another $250 in @ $100 per hour. This at a marina not backyard mechanic.

 

[RobinK]

Yes. He gave up and pulled the motor out before doing a compression, leak down and fuel pressure test??

Absolutely right. Oh, he did a compression test, or so he said. He didn't have any numbers from it though. No leakdown or fuel pressure test. He hasn't checked faulty codes when I asked, because "it wont give anything, these engines are to simple".

 

[RobinK]

Was told 2 weeks ago while getting my overheating fixed that my coupler needs replace in next 2 years. They quoted price $250 engine out, another $250 in @ $100 per hour. This at a marina not backyard mechanic.

Sounds reasonable right to me

 

[scoflaw]

Taking the seat , bolster and engine hatch hatch off would be way more time consuming than that engine pull. Did he do that ?

 

[techmitch]

I'm familiar with the concept and there's no customer in the world that should accept paying for more hours than actually spent. That's fraud. Not saying it's always unfair to charge a full hour even if it takes 20 mins.

But nowadays, most serious shops actually charge parts of an hour because of just in time-models in their business system etc. that are ment to measure the actual labour being put in. A positive effect is that the customer won't have to pay for more labour than actually put in.

I'm finding it hard to believe there are pre-measured labour models in lifting an engine out of a boat, since the conditions are so vastly different from one boat to another.

Here is where the agitation started.
And, as I stated earlier, the job should cost what it's worth. I would not even begin to speculate what that cost would be without standing there with you and the boat.

Ps that's not fraud and I would still seriously like to hear the answer to my question with no comparison involved.

 

[RobinK]

Taking the seat , bolster and engine hatch hatch off would be way more time consuming than that engine pull. Did he do that ?

No, I did that before hand. Pulling the drive was also done before, although we did that together. That's a different whole hour for pulling the drive together with him. Took about 15 mins. But, as I stated earlier, I get the concept of charging an hour anyway, if he would have had the decency not to charge three more full hours for three other 20 min jobs, like putting the engine on a crate for naming one.