PWC v. dinghy

[Steps Ahead]

Perhaps this is not the best forum, but ...

We have children that may enjoy a PWC over a dinghy. What advantages might one have over the other?

Are there diesel outboards or do diesel boat owners carry a supply of gasoline for their dinghy?

What PWC do people recommend in lieu of a dinghy? The primary issue would be keeping weight as low as possible below the 800 pound capacity of the swim platform lift.

Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

- Scott

 

[Four Suns]

I have both a PWC and a Zodiac Projet (Yamaha jet drive) dinghy and they both have their plus or minuses. I also have 4 kids so I know why you asked the question. Historically, I've traded them off the back of the platform (the PWC/dinghy and not the kids) depending on what we were doing with the boat. When we went on long excursions, I put the dinghy on the platform. When we are doing shorter/weekend things, I typically put the PWC on. Both of them are fun to drive but the teenagers prefer the PWC... But if you have to take 6 people to shore for dinner, the PWC doesn't work very well as you will get your feet wet and can only carry 3 people and so several trips would be required. Also, I have yet to teach my Golden Retrievers how to ride a PWC so taking them for a walk at 11pm to do their business and wrestling with a PWC is not an option. I don't think the PWC can replace the functionality of a dinghy and if you carry a PWC, you really need to be at a dock for the night.

The Zodiac Projet I have is a 2-stroke model and weighs around 700 pounds fully loaded. It's gas but has around a 14 gallon tank and we just have to go to the gas dock with the thing like any other gas boat. The gas in that thing will only last a few hours if it being used for high-speed action, tubing, skiing, etc. The gas will last a week or so if you are just idling people around the dock. I do carry 2-stroke engine oil but do not carry any spare gas. Not going there. The newer models of this boat are 4 stroke and I'm not sure what their weight is but I would highly recommend a 4 stroke as the 2 stroke one smokes A LOT when at idle.

The PWC I have is a Yamaha WaveRunner VX Deluxe. It's a 4 stroke and fully loaded it is right under 800 pounds. If you get a PWC like the Yamaha, you'll have to stick with the entry level models like the VX to keep the weight under 800 pounds. Frankly, the VX Deluxe we have has 110 hp so it is fine for what we use it for. It'll do 50 mph, gets out of the hole fast, has a reverse gate, and an electronic gizmo so I can set it so it can't go over 35 mph when the younger kids take it out. If you go the entry level PWC route, make sure you get one with a reverse gate. The base Yamaha VX does not have a reverse gate whereas the VX Deluxe does (well... it did when I bought mine a few years ago.). The thing also has around a 10 gallon tank and I don't carry spare gas for that either... the kids take it to the fuel dock.

Next year, we may try to take the PWC with us and put a Zodiac inflatable in the lazarette area and get a small 2 hp honda and stick it in the transom locker. That way, we will have both... but we'll see. As I said, kids like the PWC more than the dinghy.

 

[Steps Ahead]

Gary, thanks for the insight. We have only two kids and no pets that travel with us - the wife is not angry yet (although the debate over PWC v. dinghy v. bow thruster v. picking two of the three is starting to push her over the "holiday" limit). However, we anticipate that the kids will bring friends on some trips, so we will have a similar situation.

Can you elaborate on what the kids like or dislike about the Projet? Is it not cool enough or not capable of satisfying their water sports needs? Our kids are currently up to tubing and knee boarding. In addition to exercising parental judgement, are there different limits (insurance or the law) on who may operate a Projet v. PWC?

We wish you and yours a fantastic holiday season - are you still making it out onto the water for stripers/eels or whatever is currently running?

- Scott

 

[rondds]

seems to me that with a dink, you can get ashore for dinner neat and dry in one trip, whereas if you try that in a PWC, you'll need multiple trips and your shoes & probably your pant cuffs are going to get wet.

if your needs are more in the way of a tender, get the dink. if powered adequately, you can enjoy a bit of hi-speed fun and still use it for the practical necessities that cruising sometimes presents.

 

[Four Suns]

Can you elaborate on what the kids like or dislike about the Projet? Is it not cool enough or not capable of satisfying their water sports needs? Our kids are currently up to tubing and knee boarding. In addition to exercising parental judgement, are there different limits (insurance or the law) on who may operate a Projet v. PWC?

Hmmm... guess I missed this... sorry for the late response.

I think they like the PWC because it is "cool". The Projet is like a real boat and you have to turn on a blower, it's got a VHF, a steering wheel, blah blah blah... The PWC is like driving a motorcycle... You are also high up on the water with a PWC whereas the Projet sits down it the water with a low center of gravity. However, it would be really hard to tip the Projet over whereas the PWC gets flipped all the the time.

In pulling kids on a tube, I find the PWC easier but that is probably because it is heavier and has more HP... and my kids seem to like "extreme tubing" and just pulling them around at 20 mph doesn't cut it. You have to be going 30+ mph and turning a lot and jumping waves. If you are pulling a lot of weight with the Projet, you have to really think about the momentum part because the boat is pretty light and tends to ride on top of the water where the PWC cuts into the water better... if that makes sense.

The new Project are like 110 HP and 4-stroke whereas mine is 82 HP and a 2-stroke. I think the new ones would be a very nice setup... It'll make my 82 HP dinghy look whimpy.

Oh yeah... In Virginia you can be "any age" and drive a boat (i.e. dinghy) but you have to be over 14 (and take a test) to drive a PWC. If you are 16 or over, you don't need to take the test to drive the PWC.

 

[Steps Ahead]

Thanks rondds and Gary. I think that we will look more closely at a dink/Projet - budget willing!

Scott

 

[Jus' Chillin]

Hello Scott.
I had the same question, although in a slightly different format. I already have a 9' Zodiac inflatable dinghy w/ 8hp 2 stroke johnson outboard from my last boat. June of 2007 I bought my 2007 44 DB and was told by my selling dealer (among many other misrep's) that it would be no problem to put a lift and a 3 seater Sea Doo on the back. So, I bought the boat, bought the Sea Doo (RXT 3 seat) and discovered the real deal about the lifts (800 lb max). My SeaDoo is about 900 lbs loaded. Our crew is me, wife, and 3 yr old. I wanted something to play around in (zoom, zoom) with my nephews, and my family, and didn't want to deal with hassle of "inflatables". I can tell you that i do agree with other posts of for some things, it is easier with a dinghy, but my challenge now is dealing with the weight issue. I've spoken to Fla Bow Thrusters, and GHS, and will be speaking to Sea Ray engineers. FBT & GHS say the swim platforms can easily handle the weight, it is the transome that they say Sea Ray put limits on, however they were supposedly upgraded/reinforced in '05,'06, or '07? Still checking into it.
Hugo

 

[Four Suns]

My Yamaha PWC is a 3-seater... and it's within the weight limits. You just can't go get a loaded up PWC or you will be over the limit... so I don't know if I would blame the dealer on that.

 

[Alex F]

We have small dingy that we use to get kids to shore. But, this season we’re noticing a need to add more fun (like when we had with 175BR) to pull some water toys like skies and tube. I was hopping to get some opinions regarding my options. Obviously, my situation is much different. I don’t have 480 or 450, but just 320DA. I’m very limited to what I can put on the swim platform. We’re debating on what’s the most appropriate move is and deciding between a good size dinghy or jet-ski. Our needs are being able to pull water toys and have enough comfort to get to shore for sightseeing or dining.

After reading Gary’s post I started thinking that a good quality and good size dinghy might be the best solution since it could accommodate most of the needs, except being “cool” to comply with teenagers requirement (I still have few years before I need to fight the battle). However, Zodiac Projet is really heavy for my boat. Is this the only dingy that can pull a skier?

On the other hand, I came across some jet-skies (2 seaters) that weight around 350lb. Although, I need to research if this is acceptable and/or reasonable option to have something like that on my swim platform. If not, how feasible is the option of towing a jet-ski with tow bars? How will it impact performance and cruising?

Any reason I shouldn’t choose 2 seater over 3 seater to save on weight?

I would appreciate your comments.

Alex.

 

[fc3]

I've towed my PWC with the boat. It works acceptably well with the Towdster. Towing with nylon or polypropylene line is awful. Towing is no where near as good as having a lift, but a lift is a bit down the road for me. On the other hand, there are no corrosion issues or hydraulic hoses to burst. The again, my current PWC is about 820 pounds dry. Oh well.

Best regards,
Frank C

 

[Four Suns]

The big weight increase with PWCs came when everything went to 4-stroke instead of 2-stroke. The 3 seat models are more stable than the 2 seat models... and heavier...

You need to call Sea Ray and get help on what your transom, as well as your swim platform, can support. It's not just the weight you have to worry about but the dynamic loads you'll introduce being in waves and the thing bouncing around. Also, I'm not sure you'll be able to do anything with a 320 and a PWC... Too much weight on the back end.

You can always mount an ugly crane on the bow... You can have a big honkin' Jet Ski sitting in front of the windshield... Ha ha (that's a joke... don't do that). The nice things about cranes instead of lifts is you can get your pets on and off the boat easier:

 

[Alex F]

Frank,
Could you provide some more details.....
1. How much do you feel the loss of performance in general or the boat has enogh power not to notice the drag and extra weight?
2. Did you happen to observe SmartCraft instant fuel usage?
3. Does the Towdster keep the PWC in the "sweet spot" far/long enough on the wake?
4. Does this setup allow you to tow at normal cruising speed?
5. Would you say that this type of towing would work for 2-4hrs trips?

Thanks,
Alex.

 

[Alex F]

Gary,

I admire your sense of humor while you providing helpful info.

:grin: :thumbsup:

 

[AndersonAcres]

With a hard dighy, there's always the option of rowing for exercise and fun, or getting the sail option -- sailing on a dighy can be TONS of fun.....of course it may turn your kids into blowboaters.

 

[fc3]

Frank,
Could you provide some more details.....
1. How much do you feel the loss of performance in general or the boat has enogh power not to notice the drag and extra weight?
2. Did you happen to observe SmartCraft instant fuel usage?
3. Does the Towdster keep the PWC in the "sweet spot" far/long enough on the wake?
4. Does this setup allow you to tow at normal cruising speed?
5. Would you say that this type of towing would work for 2-4hrs trips?

Thanks,
Alex.

1. Not much. Boat still runs normally. I do take it easy when going on and off plane.
2. What's SmartCraft? I don't have that and didn't ever bother to check the additional fuel consumption.
3. Yes. Tows much better than with line.
4. Works from from idle speed to WOT. I checked. Towing with a line is a pain. If I used 50' of line, it was OK to about 18 kts. If I went to 70', it was OK to 21 kts. If I wanted to go faster, the wake would be under the PWC and it would flip. Flipping the flippin' PWC at 20 knots is a bitch. We tried out running a storm. Was OK at 22 kts. I gradually increased the throttles until the tail was at the PWCs bow. Flipped anyway when we hit some wakes. You need a really long line to be able to tow with any more than the littlest boat and not be speed limited.
5. Never tried it for that far of a distance. Longest run was out to the ocean. Did tow though the Point Pleasant Canal and it was fine.

Best regards,
Frank

 

[comsnark]

I towed a PWC *once*. That day, I learned a few things which culminated in "I don't want to tow jet skis"

1) If you tow a PWC, you have to worry about hydrolocking the ski once you get on plane. This is where you force water through the ski without running the engine. When you start the ski. . .the exhaust system and whatnot are full of water, when it is meant to be started dry. Not a good thing. You need to clamp the water intakes off. Maybe easy for some. . .more than I want to deal with.

2) On my boat, when on plane, you want the jetski 50'-75' back to avoid being in the prop wash. In a marina, you want the jetski about 10' back for maneuverability. Painfull transition.

3) Don't back the boat if you are towing.

- - - -

With regard to two vs three person ski's: When tubing or skiing, you legally need a driver and observer on the ski. Unless you intend to tow the person that is being pulled out to the area where you are skiing. . .you want a three person ski.

Will a ski that is only 350 lbs be big enough and powerful enough for skiing? I have a small 500lb/ish ski. . and it is really low power. Also, very unstable with two grown adults aboard.

On the Barnegate Bay, I don't see people towing jetskis. At Tices shoal, it seems like the Jet Ski's are driven over from Forked River across the bay -> even if they are mooring with a bigger boat at Tices.

 

[Alex F]

When we were upgrading from our 240DA I told my wife that one of the reason we should stick with Sea Ray is b/c of this forum. Here’s a classic example, we have two pages describing various options just in this thread alone. I’m sure there’re many more pages where this subject was discussed before. So, here’s how Sea Ray handles my two questions (1- options/limitations to carry a dinghy or PWC on the swim platform and 2-options to install anchor washdown):

“Mr. Fishman,

Thank you for contacting Sea Ray Customer Service. Unfortunately we did not design the swim platform on your 320 Sundancer to hold a dinghy or PWC so we cannot recommend you use it for such, nor can we provide you with weight limitations for that reason. Since we did not offer an anchor washdown system on the 2004 320 Sundancer, I cannot provide you with the information you have requested regarding the washdown system. I apologize for any inconveniences this may cause.

Regards,

Stephen Rucker
Customer Service Specialist
Sea Ray World Headquarters”

This is a complete BS IMO. The guy is just blowing me off without any attempt to help. He could at least ask me the size and weight of the equipment I had in mind. In the meantime, I had huge success using my small dingy for two years with my 240DA, not to mention that it’s like a toy for 320DA, even if it was larger.

 

[Turtlesboat]

maybe you should rephrase your question to:

Hello,
I have an extremely fat mother in law. I've been told that we have to take her for a cruise but i'm concerned about the weight limitation of my swim platform. I'm estimating that she weighs in the neighborhood of 400lbs. Will I be putting my boat in jeopardy if I allow here to sit, stand, jump off the swim platform?

Thanks in advance,

Alex.

 

[Four Suns]

And send them a picture of the cow... There are no warning stickers about "no cows allowed"... tell them you are a farmer and want to take your pet along.

 

[skolbe]

I tried towing a jetski with a line once. That was enough. The jetski got a lot of water in the hull. Doesn't work well. A friend made something similiar to a FC3- uses and it seemed to work well for him. I ended up selling the jetski and buying a dinghy and a ztr mower.