Sea Ray mid 90s 370 Sundancer - big water handling capabilities ???

[Charterproinc.]

Greetings , We own a 1984 340 Dancer on the St Croix / Mississippi . 2-3 ft waves is most we encounter on rivers .
We also own and have for sale on Lake Superior a 3258 Bayliner Command Bridge , 33ft hull , only 11 ft beam. Have had it 6 years on Superior . Although we have made some long runs across the lake , we sincerely have to pick our travel days on the great lakes as 2-3 ft waves are about it for comfort and security with the narrow bridge boat .. Looking to replace this Fly bridge , and purchase a mid 90s- 370 Sundancer this spring as a more cost effective option than a desired 400 Sundancer or Sedan Bridge with wider beam . Found a good 370, 1995 Sundancer for possible purchase , however it is river boat and owner had no experience with big water . I have not found any owner yet with great lakes or salt water experience with this 370 .. As a 50 ton Captain , I Have delivery experience with trawlers and larger bridge boats in 5-6 heavy seas , but no experience with this express style model .. Can any one give some seasoned advice as per what to expect per rougher water with a 370?.. Any advice appreciated as any boat is a "big Purchase" and one likes to hold on to a rig for a few years .. Wondering what this boat will handle , or if one needs to move up in size .. Any advice backed by good experience is very appreciated
Neal

 

[Stee6043]

I've been out with dock neighbors in 370's and 400's along side my 340 in a variety of water (Lake Michigan). Once you go past 3' +/- in the Great Lakes I don't think it matters which model you're in for most pleasure boats sub 50'. The ride becomes quite uncomfortable. 4'-5' and you're most certainly running hull speed in a 370 or a 400. Otherwise you're breaking things inside the boat. Beyond 2-3' and your wife is most definitely letting you know how she feels about the ride.

You can still safely mange 3-5' seas but you're not going to enjoy it. And you're not going to do it "willingly". The only guys I see heading out on days beyond 3 footers are the guys in 50' boats with "someplace to be".

 

[RollerCoastr]

I agree. While bigger boats are usually more comfortable/capable in big waves, Great Lakes chop is surprisingly non-discriminating.

Going from a 330DA to a 400DA didn't change my threshold for wave conditions.

 

[sbw1]

We ran a 1993 370 express on Lake Michigan for nearly 10 years. It is not a big water boat. If you are gone for a month you will experience big seas at some point. The ride is punishing and things come apart. SR did not use long enough screws on doors and the hinges fail. We through bolted several that pulled out. Also the TV can not be kept in its cabinet when things get above two feet. We picked up miscellaneous fasteners off the floor after long runs and never knew for sure where they came from. The boat has a nice cockpit for entertaining, so it is more of a party boat than a blue water cruiser. The hull entry is not fine enough for big seas.

 

[juggernaut1]

All my boating is coastal ocean and handling depends on all prevailing conditions which are rarely calm.

In my experience slowing down heading into frequent 3 to 5 footers and straight into the wind generally means you'll have water pouring over the cockpit screens and vision is virtually nil. At this speed the hull plows and throws the wave water back into the wind which then blows it back over the screens and you normally cop a wave right over the bow every so often. I generally do around 12- 14 knots in these condions to at least get the boat throwing the wake aft so I have vision through the screens to look for cray pot floats and ropes. Bigger heavy boats do seem to fair better in these conditions by virtue of their weight and length and I can't help to think a bridge boat would be better from a vision point of view too due to the height. Plus you won't end up with a cockpit streaming with seawater as the waves and wind seem to find a way in through every orifice.

 

[gdavis67]

To add my two cents to the above we are Lake Michigan boaters and have run it all, from flat as glass to 6+ coming from all directions. Last July we ran four boats to Milwaukee and back for a long weekend. Beautiful conditions on the way there, but it all went to hell on Saturday night/Sunday morning. Two 44' boats with diesels, my 390 with gassers, and a 97 37DA with gassers. We ran a consistent 5+ sea on the way back from Milwaukee with many times seas increasing from 5 to 8'. It was anything but a pleasurable experience! Couldn't choose a speed, couldn't find a good heading, no possible way to stay dry, nothing in the cabins stayed put, two boats lost doors off their tracks, one lost both sun deck cushions, numerous small broken items. That all being said, all four of these boats handled very challenging conditions extremely well. Unless you are sailing a 120'+ vessel over 60 MT these kind of waters are going to give you a beating. I assume you will not be looking for the opportunity to take the 37 out in foul weather, but rather looking to know if it can handle the pounding and keep you safe should you get caught without options - the answer is yes. If you want to go abuse something every time the Big Lake gets rough - buy a Sea Doo.

 

[Strecker25]

For anyone who's never experienced the great lakes 2-3' sounds like nothing. The conditions here are so much different than coastal or open ocean. Short duration and steep waves (not to mention constant rogues) make a 2-3' day miserable, with anything above that a nightmare. The pounding a boat takes in short seas like what we see can be pretty alarming.

We've traveled with 40+ footers in our groups and our 29 handled it about the same as the bigger boats. All of us jarred our teeth loose with the exception being an older sea ray aft cabin that has a partial keel, that handled the chop much better with its steeper entry. Here's a video taken in Oswego NY on Lake Ontario last year.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10155443065989064

All that said, weight is your friend. The 370 is a pretty heavy boat loaded up, so at hull speed I think you'll be fine in the bigger stuff (just uncomfortable)

 

[joeyleggz]

Here’s my two pennies speaking from a 1997 330 express cruiser typically with four people at least half tanks and water ,gear my boats pushing somewhere around 20,000 pounds I believe my boat has pretty good blue water characteristics ,on the South Shore Of Long Island I would say 2 to 3 feet is pretty typical on a daily basis my boat in two/three footers usually runs 18/20 kn with out blinking an eye I do fish offshore a lot and I’m fairly comfortable under those conditions I’d say at 3 to 5 footers is when I have to slow my boat down to about 13 or 14 kn But then again sea conditions are ever-changing depends on direction ,wind speed ,swell this past November I was in a fishing tournament where the conditions were known to not be good for the day but we did go anyway left the inlet with an east wind blowing 20 to 25 with 6 foot swells and 2 to 3 foot chop on top of that(not the smartest move) we made a turn to the west with the following Sea and had a hell of a time trying to troll after 2 to 3 miles realizing it was no good we did an about face and headed for the inlet in the biggest Seas I’ve ever been in with this boat taking waves on my starboard bow we had to tack further sse of the inlet to make headway at about 7 kn motoring up and down swell try not to stuff the nose coming off the crest ,when we got close to the inlet we turned back to the north and east And we’re taking beam waves for short period before breaking the inlet with the hammers down....So the moral of the story for me is the boat can take more then I’m willing to take ,that being said it was a good experience to push the threshold of what might possibly happen when you’re away from shore and get caught up in weather like this 8 to 10 footers fairly close together was a scary sight ....in the future if I have a choice to not be in it I will not make that mistake again, besides the fish is cheaper at the store

 

[Stee6043]

As stated above I don't think you'll find many honest mariners suggesting they're running 13-14 knots in 3-5's on the great lakes. Without really doing some damage to your boat...it's just not feasible.

Around the campfire back at the marina, after a few adult beverages, 1-3's do have a tendency to turn into 3-5's "with the occasional 7 footer" when recounting the harrowing return to safe harbor. But "real" 3'-5's in our water is generally high in pucker factor and rather disconcerting for even the experienced boater.

A few weeks after experiencing (for the only time in my life) true 5-7's on Lake Michigan I listened to a story of a guy that "returned from Holland to Grand Haven (20 miles +/-) in 5'-7's in an open bow, with the occasional 8 to 10 footer". He was sure of it. He described climbing the waves, getting a little wet, but overall his 240 (Regal maybe?) did just fine. He was "never worried". Complete and utter horse%*&#. Man...I was white knuckle for an hour straight in 5's with only the occasional 7ish. Had I not been listening to the weather on the VHF I would have sworn they were 20' waves.

Here's a nice solid Lake Michigan 3-5 footer day for ya. Maybe a rogue sixer when it pitched pretty good to port at 25 seconds or so:

 

[Stee6043]

This looks to be your standard 1-3' Great Lakes day. And in true form the poster of this video likely tells all of his friends and family this was a true 5 footer day!

 

[Strecker25]

This looks to be your standard 1-3' Great Lakes day. And in true form the poster of this video likely tells all of his friends and family this was a true 5 footer day!

I love the stories. There is a weather buoy about a mile offshore from the mouth of our bay so when people are telling their harrowing stories of safe passage I just go to the historical data and read off the largest recorded wave for that day. The 6 footer story usually checks out to be 1-2'

 

[juggernaut1]

This looks to be your standard 1-3' Great Lakes day. And in true form the poster of this video likely tells all of his friends and family this was a true 5 footer day!

Lol, that's a calm day on the water.

 

[joeyleggz]

Yeah I’d say that video is fairly accurate then again running 200 yards off the beach is gonna look like that and I say he is moving along at about 10 kn .I am not familiar with the Great Lakes and maybe you are not familiar with the Atlantic ocean 2 to 3 footers is pretty much standard around here and I can guarantee you anyone will chime in about that on the south shore of Long Island and running 3 to 5’s five being the occasional bigger wave in those groupings is not much of an issue at least for my boat at 13-14 kn ,my boat can plane down to 12 kn so I just stay on plane going through those waves at a speed That displaces the water and not pounding on the water .there was no need for me to tell Fish stories on this post as this member was looking for real data. ( though the campfire stores do get out-of-control sometimes lol) For anyone who’s only been in rough water handful of times can easily miss judge wave height .I know from my waterline to the top of my arch is 9 feet in my boat if you disappear into a trough and can’t see over to the next wave is pretty good assumption of those waves are running close to 9 feet in my Marina we have a 31 ,34 and 38 Sundancer I’ve been in all of those boats out in the ocean and I will say that those boats have a Tendancy to pound as they are not blue water boats not looking to take away anything from them just not what they were designed for ..Oh by the way here’s today’s buoy data it’s sunny with light winds wave height 3 feet

As stated above I don't think you'll find many honest mariners suggesting they're running 13-14 knots in 3-5's on the great lakes. Without really doing some damage to your boat...it's just not feasible.

Around the campfire back at the marina, after a few adult beverages, 1-3's do have a tendency to turn into 3-5's "with the occasional 7 footer" when recounting the harrowing return to safe harbor. But "real" 3'-5's in our water is generally high in pucker factor and rather disconcerting for even the experienced boater.

A few weeks after experiencing (for the only time in my life) true 5-7's on Lake Michigan I listened to a story of a guy that "returned from Holland to Grand Haven (20 miles +/-) in 5'-7's in an open bow, with the occasional 8 to 10 footer". He was sure of it. He described climbing the waves, getting a little wet, but overall his 240 (Regal maybe?) did just fine. He was "never worried". Complete and utter horse%*&#. Man...I was white knuckle for an hour straight in 5's with only the occasional 7ish. Had I not been listening to the weather on the VHF I would have sworn they were 20' waves.

Here's a nice solid Lake Michigan 3-5 footer day for ya. Maybe a rogue sixer when it pitched pretty good to port at 25 seconds or so:

 

[sbw1]

Here’s my two pennies speaking from a 1997 330 express cruiser typically with four people at least half tanks and water ,gear my boats pushing somewhere around 20,000 pounds I believe my boat has pretty good blue water characteristics ,on the South Shore Of Long Island I would say 2 to 3 feet is pretty typical on a daily basis my boat in two/three footers usually runs 18/20 kn with out blinking an eye I do fish offshore a lot and I’m fairly comfortable under those conditions I’d say at 3 to 5 footers is when I have to slow my boat down to about 13 or 14 kn But then again sea conditions are ever-changing depends on direction ,wind speed ,swell this past November I was in a fishing tournament where the conditions were known to not be good for the day but we did go anyway left the inlet with an east wind blowing 20 to 25 with 6 foot swells and 2 to 3 foot chop on top of that(not the smartest move) we made a turn to the west with the following Sea and had a hell of a time trying to troll after 2 to 3 miles realizing it was no good we did an about face and headed for the inlet in the biggest Seas I’ve ever been in with this boat taking waves on my starboard bow we had to tack further sse of the inlet to make headway at about 7 kn motoring up and down swell try not to stuff the nose coming off the crest ,when we got close to the inlet we turned back to the north and east And we’re taking beam waves for short period before breaking the inlet with the hammers down....So the moral of the story for me is the boat can take more then I’m willing to take ,that being said it was a good experience to push the threshold of what might possibly happen when you’re away from shore and get caught up in weather like this 8 to 10 footers fairly close together was a scary sight ....in the future if I have a choice to not be in it I will not make that mistake again, besides the fish is cheaper at the store

The OP was asking about a mid 1990s sundancer. These boats weigh about 13,100 ponds vs. the 16,000 to 20,000 you state your 330 boat weighs. Your hull design is also different from the mid 90s dancer. Your experience is based upon the ocean and not the Great Lakes which are known for short, very steep, seas that beat you up badly. So there is really no comparison between your experiences and what the poster is asking about. The boats handle differently and the sea conditions are not the same.

 

[joeyleggz]

I was giving my big water ,salt water experience that he was asking for and running on 31,34 and 38 foot Sundancer’s in the ocean I could at least give my perspective on. they will definitely take a pounding I think most of the v-drive boats with weight all in the Stern is one of the reasons they are not so good in rough conditions .maybe if this boat doesn’t work out for the op he’ll have some perspective on a straight shaft engine style hull

The OP was asking about a mid 1990s sundancer. These boats weigh about 13,100 ponds vs. the 16,000 to 20,000 you state your 330 boat weighs. Your hull design is also different from the mid 90s dancer. Your experience is based upon the ocean and not the Great Lakes which are known for short, very steep, seas that beat you up badly. So there is really no comparison between your experiences and what the poster is asking about. The boats handle differently and the sea conditions are not the same.

 

[juggernaut1]

Here's a nice solid Lake Michigan 3-5 footer day for ya. Maybe a rogue sixer when it pitched pretty good to port at 25 seconds or so:

and thats just chop. Sure its not pleasant and most of us wouldnt take our families out in it for fun day on the water. If your oceans are not like that then our waters are different to yours. Local commercial fishing boats are designed with a fine entry for these conditions.

 

[juggernaut1]

Your experience is based upon the ocean and not the Great Lakes which are known for short, very steep, seas that beat you up badly. So there is really no comparison between your experiences and what the poster is asking about. The boats handle differently and the sea conditions are not the same.

I believe he also asked for salt water experience...admittedly with a 370 but thought my 38 would behave somewhat similary.

 

[Charterproinc.]

I've been out with dock neighbors in 370's and 400's along side my 340 in a variety of water (Lake Michigan). Once you go past 3' +/- in the Great Lakes I don't think it matters which model you're in for most pleasure boats sub 50'. The ride becomes quite uncomfortable. 4'-5' and you're most certainly running hull speed in a 370 or a 400. Otherwise you're breaking things inside the boat. Beyond 2-3' and your wife is most definitely letting you know how she feels about the ride.

You can still safely mange 3-5' seas but you're not going to enjoy it. And you're not going to do it "willingly". The only guys I see heading out on days beyond 3 footers are the guys in 50' boats with "someplace to be".

THANKS MUCH , GOOD ADVICE

 

[Charterproinc.]

I agree. While bigger boats are usually more comfortable/capable in big waves, Great Lakes chop is surprisingly non-discriminating.

Going from a 330DA to a 400DA didn't change my threshold for wave conditions.

THANK YOU ROLLER COASTER .. IN YOUR OPINION,, MIGHT THE 12.6 BEAM 370 KEEP UP WITH THE SUNDANCER 400 PER "GREAT LAKES STYLE" WAVES AND HANDLING , OR QUITE A DIFFERENCE WITH THE 400 ?
NEAL

 

[Charterproinc.]

We ran a 1993 370 express on Lake Michigan for nearly 10 years. It is not a big water boat. If you are gone for a month you will experience big seas at some point. The ride is punishing and things come apart. SR did not use long enough screws on doors and the hinges fail. We through bolted several that pulled out. Also the TV can not be kept in its cabinet when things get above two feet. We picked up miscellaneous fasteners off the floor after long runs and never knew for sure where they came from. The boat has a nice cockpit for entertaining, so it is more of a party boat than a blue water cruiser. The hull entry is not fine enough for big seas.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR CANDOR AND GOOD ADVICE
NEAL