Side panel material ???

[Skybolt]

Hey guys, any of you with these older babies ever replace the inner cockpit sides with anything but vinyl?

Mine are starting to get a little tired, the plywood is starting to go etc. I have considered starboard alone, covering the starboard with more vinyl. But would really like fiberglass panels or the like, something to look a little more up to date. Any ideas? Thanks.

 

[fwebster]

I owned 390EC from 1988 to 1997 and at about the 5th year, the side panels were tired and looking spent. Took them off, made a pattern and cut new panels out of King Starboard then radiuses the edges with a router and replaced them .....I think it was the regular version that has a slight gloss and very fine texture to the finish. They held up better and looked much nicer than vinyl covered plywood from the factory.

 

[Skybolt]

I owned 390EC from 1988 to 1997 and at about the 5th year, the side panels were tired and looking spent. Took them off, made a pattern and cut new panels out of King Starboard then radiuses the edges with a router and replaced them .....I think it was the regular version that has a slight gloss and very fine texture to the finish. They held up better and looked much nicer than vinyl covered plywood from the factory.

That is what I am thinking as well. I am also looking at Lexan but that might be cost prohibitive since the advent of COVID has almost doubled it's price.

I am a little apprehensive about King Starboard. It seems a little too soft. How did you clean the edge after routing? I have tried fine 3m (plastic) pads but still the fine scratches collect dirt and is very hard to clean. But still might be the way to go.

 

[KevinC]

That is what I am thinking as well. I am also looking at Lexan but that might be cost prohibitive since the advent of COVID has almost doubled it's price.

I am a little apprehensive about King Starboard. It seems a little too soft. How did you clean the edge after routing? I have tried fine 3m (plastic) pads but still the fine scratches collect dirt and is very hard to clean. But still might be the way to go.

Starboard also offers some multi-layer color options that can give your piece a much more personalized look. The material would best be cut with a CNC router on a table that will provide clean edges. With the multi-layer pieces you are able route out the top layer to reveal the color below.

While you can certainly cut the material by hand, if you have a local plastic shop that can cut it on a CNC it will give you clean professional look. For the multi-layer CNC is probably the only way to go without constructing complex jigs.

-Kevin

 

[Skybolt]

... The material would best be cut with a CNC router on a table that will provide clean edges. ...

Thats the issue, the CNC is the best way to cut Starboard and look professional. A table saw and router is ok for straight cuts, but the jig saw ones will never look that great.

If I were back on LI still, there is a shop in farmingdale that does this. Where i am now I will have to look for a local shop. Still on the fence with Starboard though.

 

[fwebster]

I had no problems cutting and routing 1/2" Starboard using a Delta Contractor's table saw with a 10"X 180 tooth plastic blade. Just go very slow and don't get the starboard hot. On routing the radii along the edges, I used a high speed Porter Cable Router and a new carbide 3/8" radius bit. Speed isn't your friend when working with Starboard.

 

[Skybolt]

I had no problems cutting and routing 1/2" Starboard using a Delta Contractor's table saw with a 10"X 180 tooth plastic blade. Just go very slow and don't get the starboard hot. On routing the radii along the edges, I used a high speed Porter Cable Router and a new carbide 3/8" radius bit. Speed isn't your friend when working with Starboard.

Well that's good news, I have a wood shop in the garage, just no CNC. I guess I'll make some jigs and really take my time with the cuts.

I have never been that good with getting the scratches out of KS. But I guess if I do one side at a time if anything goes wrong, I can always revert back to the vinyl covering ...

 

[Henry Boyd]

Here’s Something to think about. The PVC material (like Azek) is made in panel sheet sizes. It’s already UV stabilized and is a heck of a lot easier to work with than starboard. It can be glued and formed with standard woodworking tools.

A couple years ago I read an article in West System’s Epoxy Works magazine where they investigated using the dimensional lumber material with epoxy. They determined adhesion was just as good as wood, and suggested possible future uses as boat stringer cores.

 

[Skybolt]

Here’s Something to think about. The PVC material (like Azek) is made in panel sheet sizes. It’s already UV stabilized and is a heck of a lot easier to work with than starboard. It can be glued and formed with standard woodworking tools.

A couple years ago I read an article in West System’s Epoxy Works magazine where they investigated using the dimensional lumber material with epoxy. They determined adhesion was just as good as wood, and suggested possible future uses as boat stringer cores.

The problem with PVC, like Azek, is getting a finished edge. At least the stuff I have worked with. I know the chain stores like HD carry 4x8 sheets of the stuff. But as you point out epoxy will hold well maybe prep'd right a urethane paint with bumper flex additive will hold up? Need to experiment a bit I guess.

 

[Lazy Daze]

I have yet to try it, but I have often wondered if gently torching the edge of HDPE (Starboard) could be successful in "smoothing" the edges. Might be worthwhile to experiment.

Just throwing out another product to look at - since the nice thing here is you can do whatever works best for you - Seadek can not only be used on floors, but can also be used as coaming panels. This would retain a "soft" feel to the coaming panel. You can get it in all kinds of colors and patterns.

Teak - or a less expensive wood with a nice marine varnish - is still another choice.

Also... if you get into redesigning the shape of the coaming panels, that purple-ish foamboard insulation that you can buy from HD or Lowes is super inexpensive and work great for making templates.

 

[Henry Boyd]

I have yet to try it, but I have often wondered if gently torching the edge of HDPE (Starboard) could be successful in "smoothing" the edges. Might be worthwhile to experiment.

Just throwing out another product to look at - since the nice thing here is you can do whatever works best for you - Seadek can not only be used on floors, but can also be used as coaming panels. This would retain a "soft" feel to the coaming panel. You can get it in all kinds of colors and patterns.

Teak - or a less expensive wood with a nice marine varnish - is still another choice.

Also... if you get into redesigning the shape of the coaming panels, that purple-ish foamboard insulation that you can buy from HD or Lowes is super inexpensive and work great for making templates.

We had some work done to the house this spring using PVC extensively and all of the edges came out sharp and clean as wood.

On the pink foam, now that is a pain to work with. I used it to make flotation blocks for a wooden dinghy I built. You have to coat it with resin because spray paint will instantly melt it.

 

[PlayDate]

I had no problems cutting and routing 1/2" Starboard using a Delta Contractor's table saw with a 10"X 180 tooth plastic blade. Just go very slow and don't get the starboard hot. On routing the radii along the edges, I used a high speed Porter Cable Router and a new carbide 3/8" radius bit. Speed isn't your friend when working with Starboard.

Frank,

I'm thinking of doing what you did....1/3 of the side panels are rotted under the vinyl. Do you have any old photos to share? Specifically, did you create multiple pieces or just one long piece?

Thanks.

 

[Lazy Daze]

On the pink foam, now that is a pain to work with. I used it to make flotation blocks for a wooden dinghy I built. You have to coat it with resin because spray paint will instantly melt it.

Hi Henry - what I meant about the pink foam is only in regards to making a template. It's so cheap and easy to cut/shape/form. Plus it approximates the final thickness of the coaming pad which also comes in handy sometimes.

However... I did experiment with the stuff in a structural aspect. I used it as coring in a 2'x4' deck hatch and was very surprised at how well it has worked. But that's not what this thread is about

 

[Henry Boyd]

Hi Henry - what I meant about the pink foam is only in regards to making a template. It's so cheap and easy to cut/shape/form. Plus it approximates the final thickness of the coaming pad which also comes in handy sometimes.

However... I did experiment with stuff in a structural aspect. I used it as coring in a 2'x4' deck hatch and was very surprised at how well it has worked. But that's not what this thread is about

The foam blocks I built for safety flotation for Bro-Boat came out far more professional looking than I expected. I did make the mistake of spray painting one and the effect was as if I had taken a propane torch to it.

 

[fwebster]

Frank,

I'm thinking of doing what you did....1/3 of the side panels are rotted under the vinyl. Do you have any old photos to share? Specifically, did you create multiple pieces or just one long piece?

Thanks.

John,

I wish I had some photos of the 390 but everything I have is old photos taken with a film camera and are not nearly as crisp and clear as a digital photo. I sold the 390 in 1997 so I have no pix remaining.

The side panels on a 390EC were about 6ft long and maybe 4 ft wide at the wildest spot and we a good large panels sizes to work with. I cut them to length and width on a Delta Contractors saw with a "plastic" (180 TPI blade and did not get in a hurry and let the blade do the work and did not force the Starboard thru the saw or router table. The saw blade and the router bit were almost new and were sharp. I was surprised at how smooth the cuts in the starboard were. I figured I'd be sanding all winter, but we never touched the starboard with sandpaper to a file. The problem I was fixing was a little bit of rotted plywood under the vinyl covering and mildewed white vinyl. The boat was in good shape so removing the plywood panels was easy and it was screwed on instead of being fastened with Christmas tree fasteners. As a result, we could easily make a new pattern from the old pieces. 3M 5200 doesn't like to stick to Starboard but the fiberglass side wall was like new so we used 5200 to finish off the joint between the fiberglass and the Starboard. The Starboard was screwed to the fibeglass and the 5200 sealer and joint to the fiberglass was masked and carefully sealed so it looked like a factory 5200 application. We let it cure about 3 weeks (in January while doing a bottom job) so as not to disturb it.

I'll see if I can get my hands on some pix of the 390, but it is doubtful that any survived.



Frank

 

[Skybolt]

... I'll see if I can get my hands on some pix of the 390, but it is doubtful that any survived. ...

Sorry to hear you don't have any pictures, not just for us to see, but for you to remember the good times with her. I don't have many form that time frame either.

 

[Snapon24]

I replaced a few panels on the old Wellcraft I used to have and I used 1/2" and 3/4" sheets of Versatex PVC board. Lighter than starboard and probably cheaper too. It wasn't structural so Starboard seemed a bit overkill.

 

[Bt Doctur]

Check "Azek"

 

[PlayDate]

John,

I wish I had some photos of the 390 but everything I have is old photos taken with a film camera and are not nearly as crisp and clear as a digital photo. I sold the 390 in 1997 so I have no pix remaining.

The side panels on a 390EC were about 6ft long and maybe 4 ft wide at the wildest spot and we a good large panels sizes to work with. I cut them to length and width on a Delta Contractors saw with a "plastic" (180 TPI blade and did not get in a hurry and let the blade do the work and did not force the Starboard thru the saw or router table. The saw blade and the router bit were almost new and were sharp. I was surprised at how smooth the cuts in the starboard were. I figured I'd be sanding all winter, but we never touched the starboard with sandpaper to a file. The problem I was fixing was a little bit of rotted plywood under the vinyl covering and mildewed white vinyl. The boat was in good shape so removing the plywood panels was easy and it was screwed on instead of being fastened with Christmas tree fasteners. As a result, we could easily make a new pattern from the old pieces. 3M 5200 doesn't like to stick to Starboard but the fiberglass side wall was like new so we used 5200 to finish off the joint between the fiberglass and the Starboard. The Starboard was screwed to the fibeglass and the 5200 sealer and joint to the fiberglass was masked and carefully sealed so it looked like a factory 5200 application. We let it cure about 3 weeks (in January while doing a bottom job) so as not to disturb it.

I'll see if I can get my hands on some pix of the 390, but it is doubtful that any survived.



Frank

I really appreciate the info. On my 370 EC the side panels I believe are around 9' in length. They are bolted to the supporting infrastructure and can be removed once the Helm and Passenger Seating are released from their mounts. The Starboard side runs into the Helm finishing so it is difficult to tell how that will release but it should.

Anyway, I love working with Starboard. The stuff cuts and routes beautifully. Based on the lines, the cuts are straight with router cutouts for the battery switches and storage areas. My only concern is that is the length may require a splice somewhere along the panel.

Just a couple more questions: What thickness (3/8" or 1/2") did you use and which color did you pick (white or artic white)?

I am leaning toward 1/2" given the length and the probability of a splice (which I can probably hide where the seating attaches). Also, working with a 9' piece of Starboard with holes in it doesn't sound like a good idea. I didn't realize they made an Artic White until I just went to one of their distributor websites.

I will look into Azek as well. There is a compelling argument to be made when a 4' x 8' sheet of Starboard will cost about $400 and a similarly sized sheet for Azek goes for $90. I do find Azek easy to work with but its density is a lot less than Starboard. It cuts and routes more like wood. That said....the Artic White of Starboard could carry the day.

Thanks.

 

[fwebster]

Their Arctic White was one prime reason we chose it for the 390EC cockpit. It was a dead match for the SeaRay's arctic white and required no other finishing. However, I got no answer for a 9ft panel....!