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SR 440EB with cat 3116. Inspection findings, is it bad?

Discussion in 'Sport Yachts/Yachts' started by hakon, Nov 29, 2020.

  1. hakon

    hakon New Member

    7
    Aug 16, 2007
    Hi Sea Ray experts :)

    Im considering buying a 440 Express Bridge from 1993, with Cat 3116. The inspection picked up a few things listed below. What would be your main concern with the issues identified (in bold)?

    Thanks in advance,

    Vessel: “Sea Ray 440 Express Bridge”


    We have the pleasure to submit the following pre purchase inspection and sea trial report on Sea Ray 440 Express Bridge.

    1. Genset
    • Westerbeke
    • ESN: Unknown
    Hours: 955 displayed on unit in engine room

    Genset appearance:

    - Unable to note when engine was last serviced
    - Heat exchanger in average condition – internal condition unknown
    - Salt leaking around end covers of heat exchanger
    - Hoses to heat exchanger in average condition
    - Sea water suction hose cracked requiring replacement
    - Engine mounts in serviceable condition
    - Unknown coolant present in cooling system
    - Level in header tank correct
    Genset operation: Starts and runs fine, holds ships load without problems no vibration or exhaust smoke found


    2. Starboard main engine / transmission
    • Caterpillar 3116
    ESN: 4KG01806

    ARR: 6J-4187

    Hours: 1510 hours displayed in engine room

    Main engine appearance:

    - All engine mounts in good condition
    - No visual signs of fuel leaks
    - Coolant leaks and salt crust present from heat exchanger hoses, end caps and header tank filler neck, majority of saltwater hosescracked and weeping salt through expansion
    - Engine last serviced 19/8/20, only oil and oil filter replaced, fuel filter replaced 26/2/16 condition unknown
    - Unknown coolant present in cooling system
    - Coolant recovery bottle level empty/ header tank set @ correct level
    - Alternator belt in good condition although loose requiring tensioning
    - All coolers show no signs of removal for service, all coolers require servicing due to swelling of saltwater hoses under loadindicating restriction of flow
    - Air cleaner dirty require replacement, last replaced 26/2/16
    - Water leaks from exhaust hoses present
    - Saltwater pump salty from suction / discharge flanges and end cover. Previous oil leak from seal noted, oil leak from mount gasket present. Condition of impeller unknown. Seawater pump requires servicing
    - Boost hose split requiring replacement
    - Air fuel control pipe nut found loose, tightened prior to sea trial – photo attached
    Engine operation: Starts and runs fine and normally at idle. No vibration or smoke visible. Engine obtained 2813RPM full load at 23knots of the specified 2800RPM running @ 88degrees C – Meeting the OEM specificationalthough temperature slightly elevated

    • ZF Hurth HSW800V1-1.6R
    Serial Number: 01-00536

    Ratio: 1.64:1

    Gearbox appearance:

    - Unable to note when gearbox was serviced last
    - Gearbox oil clean, utilizing Automatic Transmission Fluid as specified by the manufacturer
    - Gearbox removed by external contractor to carry out repairs
    Gearbox operation

    - Visible oil leak noted at rear seal and dipstick / filler cap
    - Gear selection functioning correctly, level correct

    3. Port main engine / transmission
    • Caterpillar 3116
    ESN: 4KG61834

    ARR: 6J-4187

    Hours: 1518 hours displayed in engine room

    Main engine appearance:

    - All engine mounts in good condition
    - No visual signs of fuel leaks
    - Coolant leaks and salt crust present from heat exchanger hoses, end caps and header tank filler neck, majority of saltwater hoses cracked and weeping salt through expansion
    - Engine last serviced 19/8/20, only oil and oil filter replaced, fuel filter replaced 26/2/16 condition unknown
    - Unknown coolant present in cooling system
    - Coolant recovery bottle level empty/ header tank set @ correct level
    - Alternator belt in good condition although loose requiring tensioning
    - All coolers show no signs of removal for service, all coolers require servicing due to swelling of saltwater hoses under load indicating restriction of flow
    - Air cleaner dirty require replacement, last replaced 26/2/16
    - Saltwater pumps salty from suction / discharge flanges and end cover. Previous oil leak from seal noted, oil leak from mount gasket present. Condition of impeller unknown. Seawater pump requires servicing
    - Oil pressure sender U/S requiring replacement
    - 2 of 4 header tank mounting bolts missing/loose
    Engine operation: Starts and runs fine and normally at idle. No vibration or smoke visible. Engine obtained 2890RPM full load at 23 knots of the specified 2800RPM running @ 88 degrees C – Meeting the OEM specificationalthough temperature slightly elevated

    • ZF Hurth HSW800V1-1.6R
    Serial Number: 15214K

    Ratio: 1.64:1

    Gearbox appearance:

    - Unable to note when gearbox was serviced last
    - Gearbox oil clean, utilizing Automatic Transmission Fluid as specified by the manufacturer
    - Gearbox removed by external contractor to carry out repairs
    Gearbox operation

    - Visible oil leak noted at rear seal
    - Gear selection functioning correctly, level correct

    4. Miscellaneous
    • Batteries: All batteries seem to be in good condition i.e starting main engines and genset and holding ships power, unable to note when all banks were replaced
    • Wheelhouse gauges: All wheel house gauges in working order apart from starboard fuel gauge
    • Steering operation: All in good working order
    • Trim Tabs: Operation of trim tab conducted by external contractor
    • Shaft seals: New seals fitted by external contractor, slight leak at initial sea trail
    Vessel vibration: The vessel has very minimal vibration from the starboard & port driveline – condition of bearings U/S as inspected with purchaser. Condition of shafts appear to be serviceable. Starboard propeller damaged on leading edges of blades as inspected with purchaser, port in serviceable condition
    • Fuel system: All engines have Racor primary fuel systems – both starboard Racor assemblies full of contaminants in bowls and diffusers requiring servicing. One Racor on the port side present with the same issue requiring servicing
    • Anchor winch: Anchor winch seems to be in good working order from saloon control as noted by purchaser
    Swim platform: Swim platform bolts are all corroded, bolts missing and breaking off
     
  2. bahamabreisus

    bahamabreisus Well-Known Member

    Oct 25, 2007
    Hampstead NC
    500 dancer, previous 420,390,300 dancers
    detriot 8v92
    Speaking as a broker, I would say that looks pretty good. Keep in mind you are dealing with a 27 year old boat, so expect some issue. Would you expect a 27 yr old car to be flawless. It seems to me, you should ask for some compensation to bring it up to snuff. You need to get oil samples done for a final decision. Most of this is assuming you have negotiated a reasonable price. Just my $.02
     
    hakon likes this.
  3. Golfman25

    Golfman25 Well-Known Member

    Sep 12, 2009
    IL
    281
    V8
    Seems like a lot of deferred maintenance. The only thing that really concerns me are the transmission leaks — probably need to be removed and rebuilt. As was said, price should reflect current condition. Good luck.
     
  4. hakon

    hakon New Member

    7
    Aug 16, 2007
    Thanks for the input, do you know if it requires the engine out to get the transmission out?
     
  5. dtfeld

    dtfeld Water Contrails

    Jun 5, 2016
    Milton, GA
    410 Sundancer
    2001
    Axiom 12 MFD
    Cat 3126 V-Drives
    Looks like a lot of defered MX, maybe the boat hasn't been used much lately. Are you a DIY kinda guy/gal?

    I don't see any deal breakers, but I would be realistic (in terms of $$$$) of what is going to take to get her back in top condition. Some of the items are critical, like raw/sea water hoses leaking. These need to be replaced ASAP (if one fails, boat will likely sink).

    On the engines, you likely need to redo all the coolant hoses, replace the coolant, clean/test all the the Heat exchangers/coolers/aftercoolers, and replace the exhaust hoses. Elevated engine temps are indicative of clogged heat exchangers.

    On the transmissions, you likely need a rear seal on both sides. This will likely mean pulling the boat out and pulling the engine/transmission. If you have dripless shaft seals, might as well service and add additional seals/carriers.

    On the Props, you'll likely need a good recondition. The good news is they are pitched correctly!

    The one issue I see that could be a deal breaker...if the swim platform bolts are missing corroded...this could allow water into the transom and rot it out. I'd be very concerned about that area of the boat. The swim platform can be bolted back on as long as the transom is sound.

    You can try to get the current owner to do this work, or negotiate a better price, but there is some substantial work to be done IMHO. I could see this work costing $10k by time its all said and done.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2020
  6. hakon

    hakon New Member

    7
    Aug 16, 2007
    Thanks - I can’t wait to get my hands dirty, so yes I think I will be able to do most myself, but not transmission repair if engine needs to go out (or transom/swimming platform).

    Your comments regarding water ingress into the transom makes me concerned. Is the transom cored as well? Your guess of $10k to fix, was that for all issues or only swimming platform? I’ll try to add some pictures.

    Happy to hear that vibration can be fixed by reconditioning them. Also, I think temp is fine, still below 195F.
     

    Attached Files:

  7. dtfeld

    dtfeld Water Contrails

    Jun 5, 2016
    Milton, GA
    410 Sundancer
    2001
    Axiom 12 MFD
    Cat 3126 V-Drives
    If your handy and good with a wrench, almost all of this can be DIY and the good news is (especially with CAT engines) parts are fairly easy to come by. All CAT parts can be found online and/or by calling your local CAT dealer and the normal stuff reasonably priced. If you search here somebody has done all this service and documented it on here.

    $10k was a a ball park spitball guestamate off the top of my head assuming you had someone do the work. If your going to buy the boat, get estimates now.

    Water ingress on the transom can be serious, but I would think your surveyor would know best and I would ask him. If its just non stainless bolts that rusted, thats one thing but if the seal into the transom area was compromised, thats a whole other issue. As to if the transom is cored, call Sea Ray, they are pretty friendly and will know the exact construction of your hull.
     
  8. Golfman25

    Golfman25 Well-Known Member

    Sep 12, 2009
    IL
    281
    V8
    No idea. If straight drives probably can just remove transmissions.
     
  9. CaptRonn

    CaptRonn Well-Known Member

    May 25, 2016
    on a large body of water
    1999 Sea Ray 400 Sedan Bridge
    Convert fuel into noise
    Did you have the hull checked for water intrusion? Every 44EB I looked at had some degree of wet core. The cutouts for the ER vents were the main culprits.
     
  10. douglee25

    douglee25 Well-Known Member

    Jan 13, 2008
    Dallas, TX
    Cruisers 3575
    Twin 7.4l
    If those bolts broke on the inside of the bilge, it's because water was leaking through the core. And unless they sealed the holes with epoxy and redrilled (which rarely anyone does correctly), you could possibly have a big issue on hand. That would be my biggest concern. Everything else is just nuts and bolts on the survey.
     

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