The truth about wearing a mask -finally

alnav said:
Wrong. All recruits about to start boot camp are quarantined via a standard protocol (true in the other services as well). From the original study:
"The public health program implemented by the U.S. Marine Corps for all new recruits includes a period of home quarantine followed by a 2-week, strictly supervised quarantine at a closed campus, with the objective of mitigating infection among recruits."

The study team merely selected a group to monitor closely. Boots who signed up for the study were mixed in with the full population so there couldn't have been a difference.
The difference in outcome between the two groups was not statistically significant.
2% or so positives during the quarantine is right about the max that has been seen across the services. Sometimes it's zero. The quarantine is in place to avoid large-scale infection during boot camp. Earlier efforts that involved direct accession, albeit with testing, resulted in much bigger problems with both the recruit population and training staff. Military readiness largely runs on maintaining the through-put of accession pipelines. The services have done an admirable job of maintaining that flow during the pandemic.
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Whatever. It just proves that you can't control a virus.
 
I have said it before and will say it again...You probably will not get the virus. If you do, you probably will not get sick. If you do get sick, you probably will not need hospitalization. But if you do end up in the hospital, you probably will not die. This is all supported by the numbers from the CDC. The death rate, of those infected is about 1%.....If I had 1000.00 to invest, and had a 99% chance of not losing money, I would take that in a heartbeat. I will also happily assume the risk associated with COVID to face a 1% chance of dying. My drive to work is potentially more lethal. Stop the fear mongering.
 
The majority of the elderly I know (grandparents, etc), do NOT want to live out their final days/years in isolation! They WANT to see their grandkids, hold them, play with them, etc. NOT living in fear! If you're 70+....the overall feeling is I've lived a long, good life. Let's keep enjoying it vs living in fear...
 
alnav said:
Wrong. All recruits about to start boot camp are quarantined via a standard protocol (true in the other services as well). From the original study:
"The public health program implemented by the U.S. Marine Corps for all new recruits includes a period of home quarantine followed by a 2-week, strictly supervised quarantine at a closed campus, with the objective of mitigating infection among recruits."

The study team merely selected a group to monitor closely. Boots who signed up for the study were mixed in with the full population so there couldn't have been a difference.
The difference in outcome between the two groups was not statistically significant.
2% or so positives during the quarantine is right about the max that has been seen across the services. Sometimes it's zero. The quarantine is in place to avoid large-scale infection during boot camp. Earlier efforts that involved direct accession, albeit with testing, resulted in much bigger problems with both the recruit population and training staff. Military readiness largely runs on maintaining the through-put of accession pipelines. The services have done an admirable job of maintaining that flow during the pandemic.
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How many recruits died?
 
Golfman25 said:
Pope Fauci was talking about masking up, etc. after you get the vaccine. And not just during the time it takes to develop antibodies. Once all the high risk people are vaccinated, it's time to open up. I no longer will be able to kill grandma, so we are good to go. Thereafter, I can decide the risk and situations that I chose to be in. Enough is enough.
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Good question as to whether you or Grandma will be vaccinated first. While the common wisdom is that vaccination allocation will proceed from responders, then the elderly, then everyone else, that's not the most efficient or timely way to tame a pandemic. To get the most bang for the amount of vaccine available, the people most likely to spread the virus ought to be done first. Responders actually fit this bill so there is consensus on them being first. After that, vaccinating younger and more mobile individuals would hasten the end of the problem. Since you seem to have lots of friends, and probably doesn't, you'd likely be a better candidate from the perspective of interrupting transmission. Your son in college might be an even better candidate and covidiots who ignore all the guidance would probably be even better (but probably wouldn't take the vaccine). There are well-understood network theory-based methods for selecting people most likely to slow the spread if vaccinated. But, because it's not intuitive, it would be a difficult sell to the public. It will be interesting to see if the argument ever goes public and which way the allocations go.
 
alnav said:
Wrong. All recruits about to start boot camp are quarantined via a standard protocol (true in the other services as well). From the original study:
"The public health program implemented by the U.S. Marine Corps for all new recruits includes a period of home quarantine followed by a 2-week, strictly supervised quarantine at a closed campus, with the objective of mitigating infection among recruits."

The study team merely selected a group to monitor closely. Boots who signed up for the study were mixed in with the full population so there couldn't have been a difference.
The difference in outcome between the two groups was not statistically significant.
2% or so positives during the quarantine is right about the max that has been seen across the services. Sometimes it's zero. The quarantine is in place to avoid large-scale infection during boot camp. Earlier efforts that involved direct accession, albeit with testing, resulted in much bigger problems with both the recruit population and training staff. Military readiness largely runs on maintaining the through-put of accession pipelines. The services have done an admirable job of maintaining that flow during the pandemic.
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I have often thought that, if any sector ought to "let 'er rip" and allow the virus to go unchecked and see what happens, it might be the military. I think I might argue for it if I was in position to do so as I used to be. A mostly young and healthy population, a reasonably well-controlled environment and the attraction of not having to worry too much about readiness after a surge of infection would seem to make it sensible to go ahead and get it over with. Yet, DoD didn't do it. I suspect it was argued and analyzed extensively but 2nd and 3rd order effects overrode the logic of letting the force get sick.
 
alnav said:
I have often thought that, if any sector ought to "let 'er rip" and allow the virus to go unchecked and see what happens, it might be the military. I think I might argue for it if I was in position to do so as I used to be. A mostly young and healthy population, a reasonably well-controlled environment and the attraction of not having to worry too much about readiness after a surge of infection would seem to make it sensible to go ahead and get it over with. Yet, DoD didn't do it. I suspect it was argued and analyzed extensively but 2nd and 3rd order effects overrode the logic of letting the force get sick.
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It was, and probably remains the fear outweighs the facts. Problem is we let the genie out of the bottle. COVID was deadly, we were told. It was new, no one is safe....lock everything down. And in March, many of us believed that. But then, it turns out, it isn't deadly. In fact, it is highly survivable....but we have done so much harm to the economy, to people's lives, families, livelihoods....that we can't admit a mistake, or worse, that we have learned so much about this disease, that it is survivable, and that we probably can learn to live with it....yet we keep testing healthy people. Over and over. We keep blasting the "new case totals" on the news, and we continue to beat down the population to keep the fear alive. And we wait...for a cure, for a vaccine. Then one comes, but that's not good enough...still need masks, social distancing and all the related fear based b.s. For how long? When does this end? Cancel Thanksgiving? Christmas? Graduations? Weddings? Entertainment...life? So what happens the next time? And the time after that? We know enough to let people live, to protect the vulnerable and treat the sick (most of whom will survive) so tell me the endstate. I am waiting.
 
PeteL said:
It was, and probably remains the fear outweighs the facts. Problem is we let the genie out of the bottle. COVID was deadly, we were told. It was new, no one is safe....lock everything down. And in March, many of us believed that. But then, it turns out, it isn't deadly. In fact, it is highly survivable....but we have done so much harm to the economy, to people's lives, families, livelihoods....that we can't admit a mistake, or worse, that we have learned so much about this disease, that it is survivable, and that we probably can learn to live with it....yet we keep testing healthy people. Over and over. We keep blasting the "new case totals" on the news, and we continue to beat down the population to keep the fear alive. And we wait...for a cure, for a vaccine. Then one comes, but that's not good enough...still need masks, social distancing and all the related fear based b.s. For how long? When does this end? Cancel Thanksgiving? Christmas? Graduations? Weddings? Entertainment...life? So what happens the next time? And the time after that? We know enough to let people live, to protect the vulnerable and treat the sick (most of whom will survive) so tell me the endstate. I am waiting.
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There seems to be a threshold of hospitalizations and/or deaths worldwide where leaders who have stridently resisted mitigation measures and/or opened their economies thinks better of it and implements controlling measures. The leaders who see it coming and act earlier seem to have better outcomes.
If you've been paying attention, you realize the U.S. may be looking at more than doubling the current death rate during the current surge. The leading indicators are not looking good so far. I hardly think it is fear-mongering to point this out. The good news is that, if the promise of the vaccines comes true, we may be out of this by the middle of next year. The country needs to suck it up until then. It seems to me the more lives saved, the better.
 
alnav said:
There seems to be a threshold of hospitalizations and/or deaths worldwide where leaders who have stridently resisted mitigation measures and/or opened their economies thinks better of it and implements controlling measures. The leaders who see it coming and act earlier seem to have better outcomes.
If you've been paying attention, you realize the U.S. may be looking at more than doubling the current death rate during the current surge. The leading indicators are not looking good so far. I hardly think it is fear-mongering to point this out. The good news is that, if the promise of the vaccines comes true, we may be out of this by the middle of next year. The country needs to suck it up until then. It seems to me the more lives saved, the better.
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The surge in death rate remains to be seen, so it may go from 1% to 2%....while we continue to improve treatment....I think we can employ reasonable risk management and get through the next season without draconian measures. Not scared yet.
 
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https://www.washingtonpost.com/healt...virus-deniers/
 
alnav said:
image_d11b1e0dd3bfc42c96a3a9afbcfcf4bd6ff8128f.png

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https://www.washingtonpost.com/healt...virus-deniers/
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One nurse...in South Dakota......authoritative.... Better lock this place up.
I have never questioned the existence of the virus. In fact in March, I may have been a little concerned. But after all of the lockdowns, the improving treatment, and better understanding of exactly who is at risk, we should be at the point in time that we can target protection towards the most vulnerable. The rest of us can live with the situation, and live without fear. Lockdowns, social distancing and yes mask wearing have caused more harm than the virus itself. What is the level of protection we seek? Perfection? We will never get there. Flatten the curve, just a few weeks...was the mantra. Now vaccine, middle of next year? Nope. That is the definition of insanity, and it ignores any progress that has been made since the spring. Positive tests are not cases. I get that it is a serious virus, but the cost right now of lockdowns etc is excessive.
 
OllieC said:
Indeed - like Sweden.
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Sweden they have done a horrible job they went into lock down yesterday. :eek::confused::D

New Zealand and Australia have done a great job.
 
Yes - I heard Sweden has deaths in the millions now.
 
President Elect Joe Biden from the Office of the President Elect, should be deploying his plan any day now. I am eager to see what his cure is for covid.
 
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