The "virus" What are your thoughts

So Wuhan gets the virus...it spreads to the US, Italy, India ...all European countries and the rest of the world but just a few cases in Shanghai or Beijing ?.... what doesn't sound right here?

China is back up and running including Wuhan ...the rest of the world is on lock down
 
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I think when the smoke clears the anger at China by American patriots and many across the world will increase and demand we decouple completely from those chicoms.

By the way, anybody watching the stock market today?:rolleyes:
 
Boat Guy said:
Even if this was the case, don't you think it would leak if there was a major outbreak in those cities?
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The CCP has an iron fist and doesn't treat "leakers" with any regard. The typical Chinese citizen or expat will think twice before doing something that will cause them simply to vanish and never be seen or heard from again.

The CCP lied about Wuhan and the true extent. A few that tried to warn the outside world either died or disappeared.

My point is, we really don't know what is going on inside the country, and to what extent.
 
Blueone said:
You cant lie your way out of no cases in Beijing or Shanghai... Millions of people...you cant hide that...look at NY and it doesn't compare in size
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Do you realize that China is controlled by the CCP? Also, do you realize the CCP controls their media and internet? Did you miss when China was expelling foreign journalist for daring to speak out?
 
Blueone said:
There are a lot of Westerners and Europeans that live in both cities full time... you cant stop those leaks
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Sigh........ OK, so you are an expat living there. Are you really going to risk your life "speaking out"?

FWIW I was an expat in that part of the world living and working. Once you are inside their territory, they control everything. This is a communist country, which for some reason, most westerners fail to understand.
 
Blueone said:
I spent a lot of time in China over 8 years. I know what they are capable of but you can't cover up a pandemic in either city
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Believe what you want. This still doesn't change the FACT that China is hardcore communist, and the Chinese routinely LIE to the rest of the world.
 
Of the ~82K cases China reported, ~68K were in Wuhan, the rest spread throughout China, including ~600 in Beijing and ~500 in Shanghai. By all accounts (which are numerous), they just did a very effective job of locking down the entire country and largely limiting and then controlling spread. Beijing only opened up at the end of March, sadly there are reports of nobody still wanting to go out and restaurants and other businesses still in trouble. Let's hope our experience is different.
Having said the above, I certainly believe that China underreported and that cases and deaths have been much higher.
 
alnav said:
Of the ~82K cases China reported, ~68K were in Wuhan, the rest spread throughout China, including ~600 in Beijing and ~500 in Shanghai. By all accounts (which are numerous), they just did a very effective job of locking down the entire country and largely limiting and then controlling spread. Beijing only opened up at the end of March, sadly there are reports of nobody still wanting to go out and restaurants and other businesses still in trouble. Let's hope our experience is different.
Having said the above, I certainly believe that China underreported and that cases and deaths have been much higher.
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You are right I was told bad info …again and didn't verify
 
Just got this from a marina on the west side of michigan, Take it for what it is i guess. Its a start.

Good afternoon.


I am writing to announce that we will be opening the storage buildings to allow customers to access their boats.


In the last few days, the Governor released new guidance regarding boating as an allowable “outdoor activity.” As part of that guidance, the Governor stated that marinas may not provide boating services, but may allow workers to conduct “minimum basic operations…strictly necessary to allow the business or operation to maintain the value of inventory and equipment.” I called the Governor’s Office and a representative explained that our office must remain closed, but we can open the facility and close the facility to allow people to access their property.


Accordingly, we will be permitting access to the storage buildings to allow owners to work on their boats, subject to the following:


1. Buildings will be open from 9am until 8pm.

2. Go directly to your boat without touching any other boats or surfaces.

3. Social distancing must be maintained, with a minimum of six fee separation between unrelated visitors.

4. Follow the advice and guidelines from the Federal, State and Local authorities.

5. Call xxx at 616-xxx-xxxx before arriving and upon leaving so he can track access.

6. Do not come to the office.

7. No admittance if:

a. You are exhibiting any symptoms of illness (including cough, fever, shortness of breath, etc.).

b. You or anyone you have been in contact with anyone who has these symptoms.

c. You have recently traveled to the East-side of Michigan or outside of Michigan.


Upon arrival EACH TIME, please print and sign a copy of this email with the following information and place in drop box attached to the telephone pole by the gate:



Name: _________________________________


Boat: __________________________________


Date: __________________________________


Time: __________________________________


**I acknowledge and agree to these guidelines***



Signature: ______________________________


Please note that the Governor’s Order is going to impact the launch dates this Spring. Once the Order is lifted (which may be extended to the end of April or longer), we will notify you of when we intend to launch your boat. The only allowable delays to readiness will be mechanical or structural issues that make the boat unseaworthy, in which case the boat may be placed on stands outside. Unfortunately, we will not permit delays simply because you have not been able to clean the boat.


If you have any questions, please send me an email and I will respond. In the meantime, please stay safe and healthy and keep everyone, especially those workers on the front lines in healthcare, in your prayers.
 
My thoughts on Covid-19.

1. It should be called the Wuhan virus, or the Chinese virus, to remind of us of its origin. Time will tell if it was from a wet market animal, a lab release, a combination of the two, or something else altogether.

2. I disagree with the social distancing. Vulnerable people (elderly, those in nursing homes, those with conditions that put them at risk, smokers, vapers) should social distance. Others should mix in the community, get the virus and get over it. Here is but one expert explaining why from a medical perspective:

3. From an economic perspective, our economy cannot stand much more of social distancing. I agree with the governors who have resisted the lemming mentality.

So, let people go back to work. Do as Walmart says they’re doing, or soon will be: Take the temperature of employees when they come for work. Elevated? Go home.

4. If healthcare workers get Covid-19, but are not very ill from it, they should be able to take care of other Covid-19 sufferers in a Covid-19 only segment of the facility.

5. This is a reassuring video from a NYC physician about his experience with Covid-19, and why he feels he'll never get the virus, even though working with it every day:

6. It’s useful to compare the US to the EU (more so than to individual EU countries). Covid-19 data from today:

US 8910 deaths, 330891 confirmed cases = 2.6% death rate https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/cases-in-us.html

EU 51059 deaths, 608500 confirmed cases = 8.3% death rate (https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/cases-2019-ncov-eueea)

7. An old adage is you find what you’re looking for. Testing for Covid-19 finds more Covid-19 cases. However, it seems to be consistently about 10% who test positive. That’s the case here in FL, in MO, and CA. Though it’s hard to find that data. Mostly anecdotal in the media. There are around 328,000,000 people in the US. 10% of that is, of course, 32,800,000 who could test positive for the virus. If 2.6% of those die, then the death toll is 852800. Let’s hope it doesn’t get there.

8. There is a difference between what seems to be working in hospitals (field tests) and what has been put through rigorous human trials. We have field tests of HCQ (Hydroxychloroquine) + Azithromycin showing it to have particularly good results (approaching 100%) in “curing” the patient. The FDA has approved it for Covid-19 treatment. That is good. If HCQ + Azithromycin were subjected to rigorous trials before it could be use for Covid-19 treatment, it’d be a year or more. When folks talk about HCQ + Azithromycin, the difference between field efficacy and trials needs to be mentioned. Also, both HCQ and Azithromycin have been thoroughly tested individually, so there should be little worry.

9. It might even be found that tonic water with real quinine helps ward off Covid-19. Gin & tonic anyone? Worked for the British against malaria.
 
You are entitled to your view, I am adding mine to yours:

Third Edition said:
My thoughts on Covid-19.
Click to expand...

1. It should be called the Wuhan virus, or the Chinese virus, to remind of us of its origin. Time will tell if it was from a wet market animal, a lab release, a combination of the two, or something else altogether.
Not sure the reason why this is so important to you, but fine. Naming it does not save lives.

2. I disagree with the social distancing. Vulnerable people (elderly, those in nursing homes, those with conditions that put them at risk, smokers, vapers) should social distance. Others should mix in the community, get the virus and get over it. Here is but one expert explaining why from a medical perspective: I guess you don't have anyone that you really care about that are in your definition of vulnerable people.

3. From an economic perspective, our economy cannot stand much more of social distancing. I agree with the governors who have resisted the lemming mentality.
Yup. Its a bit of a "Sophie's choice" decision at a macro level. Trade lives of the vulnerable against the prosperity of an otherwise wealthy nation. I don't have the right answer. But as you said some Governors are making choices on their balance of how many should die vs economic impact that is different than others. Which one is the right choice?

So, let people go back to work. Do as Walmart says they’re doing, or soon will be: Take the temperature of employees when they come for work. Elevated? Go home.
This will happen regardless, its just a matter of when is the right time. It will be impossible to wait until every last case has resolved. So at some point the risk/impact trade off will tilt and things will open up. Each Country/State/City will have its own line in the sand. Voters of the future will decide if they support the decision and it won't be clear, because its not a black and white decision.

4. If healthcare workers get Covid-19, but are not very ill from it, they should be able to take care of other Covid-19 sufferers in a Covid-19 only segment of the facility.
I agree and I suspect that is happening without official policy (asymptomatic people). Hopefully once they get it, they are at least temporarily immune from the worst effects and can get on with treating those that have it.

5. This is a reassuring video from a NYC physician about his experience with Covid-19, and why he feels he'll never get the virus, even though working with it every day:
Even if he does, he looks like he is in the under 12 years old demographic so very low risk of him dying. That is not reassuring to anyone over 60.

6. It’s useful to compare the US to the EU (more so than to individual EU countries). Covid-19 data from today:

US 8910 deaths, 330891 confirmed cases = 2.6% death rate https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/cases-in-us.html
Not that reassuring to the families of the 8,910 that died (number still rising) or to the several hundred thousand still recovering and the several hundred thousand yet to be diagnosed. Those numbers are people, not numbers. I never once heard anyone say that "only" 3,000 people died September 11th. And you have far greater chance today of dying from COVID-19 than you do from a terrorist attack.

EU 51059 deaths, 608500 confirmed cases = 8.3% death rate (https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/cases-2019-ncov-eueea)
And rising. Its a horrible horrible thing. We are extremely lucky to live in countries without those horrible death rates.

7. An old adage is you find what you’re looking for. Testing for Covid-19 finds more Covid-19 cases. However, it seems to be consistently about 10% who test positive. That’s the case here in FL, in MO, and CA. Though it’s hard to find that data. Mostly anecdotal in the media. There are around 328,000,000 people in the US. 10% of that is, of course, 32,800,000 who could test positive for the virus. If 2.6% of those die, then the death toll is 852800. Let’s hope it doesn’t get there.
Agreed. Its not over until we can slow it and stop it. Every 1% is another 300,000 people. A small city.

8. There is a difference between what seems to be working in hospitals (field tests) and what has been put through rigorous human trials. We have field tests of HCQ (Hydroxychloroquine) + Azithromycin showing it to have particularly good results (approaching 100%) in “curing” the patient. The FDA has approved it for Covid-19 treatment. That is good. If HCQ + Azithromycin were subjected to rigorous trials before it could be use for Covid-19 treatment, it’d be a year or more. When folks talk about HCQ + Azithromycin, the difference between field efficacy and trials needs to be mentioned. Also, both HCQ and Azithromycin have been thoroughly tested individually, so there should be little worry.
I just hope the BS stops and real clinical results prove that there are effective treatments before a vaccine can be developed. Canada is now doing plasma antibody transfusions using donated plasma from those that have recovered. Hopefully it works for the really ill.

9. It might even be found that tonic water with real quinine helps ward off Covid-19. Gin & tonic anyone? Worked for the British against malaria.
Wishful thinking! But I like the idea and the optimism. I wish it was G&T season (warmer) up here. I would be all over that cure. I already use potential malaria from our mosquitoes as a reason for G&T at sundown at the cottage/boat.
 
SkiPharmer said:
yes ebola is worse but it is MUCH harder to get. you have to come in physical contact with a person with symptoms. It isn't spread by people who are symptomatic.
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Did you miss my main point about the MSM spreading false fear? That was the point of my post.

Ohio has had decreasing new cases every day since March 30, yet their official model says we should have had 1206 new cases yesterday but in reality 56 new cases were reported. Our power hungry governor stated yesterday he didn't know if he would allow the NFL to play games this fall.
 
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As far as getting information out of China, where is and was the CIA? Why are we still waiting for official Chinese statistics?
After 911, the CIA explained it is almost impossible to penetrate the Muslim world since the people are strictly faithful to the faith. No amount of money or blackmail would convert informers. Also, it is extremely difficult to insert informants into the communities where terrorism breeds since our cultures are so different. Ok. I get it.
Fast forward some decades. Now we have an emerging viral threat from a country where American business and government has been dealing with for years. Yes, many consider China an enemy (I agree.) However, no one can deny strong economic relationships exists. We have a huge population of Chinese-Americans who are natural born, true red-blooded Americans who can penetrate the culture and blend in with the people of China and just go to work, live quietly, and listen and report facts. We have ultra-high technology that can send encrypted signals on an interplanetary basis. We have secret codes that can be embedded in all sorts of things. Just ask the drug lords how easy it is to import/export stuff into/out of the US. I don’t give a crap if the CIA sends messages by carrier pigeon or floats them in a bottle.
I thought we had a huge, well funded, intelligence community with the mission of identifying and reporting emerging and immediate threats to America. Why is everyone crying and whining about how China lied to us and allowed this to catch us off-guard? Of course China lied to us. Of course WHO lied to the world. Hell, our government probably lies to them! I would expect no less. If our governmental leaders are so naive as to take anything on faith from anyone outside our borders, they should look at our own Congress to see how these wonderful American “patriots” lie to each other and their constituents. Then they should watch CNN and Fox cover the same event and see how our own citizen-reporters lie to their own citizen-viewers. Of course the Chinese lied to us, dumbass. Next issue.

Does the CIA have agents spread throughout China reporting accurate information that just did not make it back?

Did the CIA just drop the ball again and fail to penetrate China for some excuse about “Well...you know it is really hard to do that...” Okay. You couldn’t connect the dots on 911. You couldn’t identify this virus as an emerging threat. Can we just quit funding the CIA if it can’t do what it is supposed to do?

I am not hating on the intelligence community. I am sure they protect our country in ways I will never hear about. I think it is a vital part of national security. But there should be some very important people banging a fist on the desk of the director of the CIA, NSA, DIA, DSS, Naval Intelligence, Army Intelligence, and any other government agency with an intelligence mission demanding a full report on how this was missed.

Quit focusing on the CCP and start asking the real questions: How did our intelligence community fail to start blasting horns in Washington back in December?

Or...did they? However, “we” were balls-deep in a dumbass impeachment trial about some event that not one American gave a shit about in some country that most Americans couldn’t find on a map. Meanwhile, this deadly virus was brewing in the heart of a country that hates us, makes everything we consume, and owns most of our debt.

I am just a dumb southern boy. There is so much about the world I do not know. I understand that. But I feel this is a serious question we should be asking.

Should we focus on stopping this virus first? Hell no! Just because we are fighting the Wuhan virus does not mean something else could not be brewing. Al Quada and ISIS are still watching.
 
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