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trim tab issues. 2005 sea ray 280 sundancer

Discussion in 'Bennett Trim Tabs Vendor Forum' started by Nelco, Oct 12, 2020.

  1. amajamar

    amajamar Active Member

    217
    Sep 9, 2013
    Onset, MA
    2001 380 Sundancer
    8.1S Horizons
    That's a good point. I suppose my Sea Rays were and are older and did not have an EIM. Might someone be able to refer to the wiring diagrams in the owners manual to track down the appropriate wire colors?
     
  2. Henry Boyd

    Henry Boyd Well-Known Member GOLD Sponsor

    Apr 24, 2007
    Newburyport, on the peaceful and serene Merrimack
    ‘09 Sabre 38 Hardtop Express “Serenity”
    Volvo D6 w/IPS450 Pods
    Right on the wiring diagram. The Bennett colors will be on the pigtail to the pump. On ours the wiring harness off the Aft EIM interfaced with the pump using the same plug as supplied by Bennett. EDIT: I searched through my photo archive and SR maintained Bennett’s coloring from the EIM to pump.

    I suppose Nelson could tap in there with a momentary jumper switch to test pump function. If the pump works and the offending tab functions the issue is in the switchpad and EIM. Likewise he should be able to get a multimeter on the EIM end of the plug to test the output from that.

    One thing no one has discussed is the possibility of a mechanical jamb in either the piston, or the tab itself. Disconnecting the piston from the tab is just two bolts, so testing the swing of the tab is easy.
     
  3. scoflaw

    scoflaw Well-Known Member

    Aug 10, 2011
    cape cod mass, cape coral fl
    1999 Powerquest legend 260 sx
    502 mpi Bravo 1
    Simplest way to start. Probe the solenoids on the pump with a 12v source.
     
  4. Nelco

    Nelco Member

    30
    Sep 19, 2020
    San Antonio, TX
    280 Sundancer 2005
    305 Mercruiser
    Is this the trim tab pump?
     

    Attached Files:

  5. scoflaw

    scoflaw Well-Known Member

    Aug 10, 2011
    cape cod mass, cape coral fl
    1999 Powerquest legend 260 sx
    502 mpi Bravo 1
    Bingo
     
    Nelco likes this.
  6. Nelco

    Nelco Member

    30
    Sep 19, 2020
    San Antonio, TX
    280 Sundancer 2005
    305 Mercruiser
    One know where the EIM is located?
     
  7. scoflaw

    scoflaw Well-Known Member

    Aug 10, 2011
    cape cod mass, cape coral fl
    1999 Powerquest legend 260 sx
    502 mpi Bravo 1
    Forget that for now, take that plastic cover off and check for voltage. EIM is near the batteries.
     
    Nelco likes this.
  8. Nelco

    Nelco Member

    30
    Sep 19, 2020
    San Antonio, TX
    280 Sundancer 2005
    305 Mercruiser
    You guys are awesome.. update..

    Starboard Trim Tabs.. work up and down
    Port trim Tab.. works up but will not go down

    Starting to think that the problem is in the switch panel..

    Thoughts?
     
  9. scoflaw

    scoflaw Well-Known Member

    Aug 10, 2011
    cape cod mass, cape coral fl
    1999 Powerquest legend 260 sx
    502 mpi Bravo 1
    Probably the solonoid on the pump, probe around with a live 12v + wire, bypass it.
     
  10. Nelco

    Nelco Member

    30
    Sep 19, 2020
    San Antonio, TX
    280 Sundancer 2005
    305 Mercruiser
    The solenoid seems to be working. If it was solenoid would it only work in one direction?

    @IRDaleBracey
     
    IRDaleBracey likes this.
  11. scoflaw

    scoflaw Well-Known Member

    Aug 10, 2011
    cape cod mass, cape coral fl
    1999 Powerquest legend 260 sx
    502 mpi Bravo 1
    Not familiar with that model, does it not have 2 of them. Get that hot wire on it, you'll figure it out.
     
  12. Nelco

    Nelco Member

    30
    Sep 19, 2020
    San Antonio, TX
    280 Sundancer 2005
    305 Mercruiser
    It actually the type with a multi button panel that connects to an EIM.. unfortunately.. the panel is super hard to find and expensive.. ;(
     
  13. scoflaw

    scoflaw Well-Known Member

    Aug 10, 2011
    cape cod mass, cape coral fl
    1999 Powerquest legend 260 sx
    502 mpi Bravo 1
    All those things send the voltage to the motor. that's why you want to hot wire it to see where the problem is.
     
    Nelco likes this.
  14. Espos4

    Espos4 Well-Known Member

    Jan 1, 2017
    Long Island NY
    2007 240 Sundeck
    350 MAG Bravo 3 W/DTS
    If you tested the system like the video shows and everything works properly, your issue isn’t with the solenoids or motor.

    If you tested the system like the video shows and something doesn’t work properly, then your problem is somewhere within the pump assembly or a poor ground connection.

    Can you clarify which of the above you experienced?
     
    Nelco likes this.
  15. Espos4

    Espos4 Well-Known Member

    Jan 1, 2017
    Long Island NY
    2007 240 Sundeck
    350 MAG Bravo 3 W/DTS
    And FYI the port side switch moves the starboard side trim tab and vice-versa.
     
  16. Henry Boyd

    Henry Boyd Well-Known Member GOLD Sponsor

    Apr 24, 2007
    Newburyport, on the peaceful and serene Merrimack
    ‘09 Sabre 38 Hardtop Express “Serenity”
    Volvo D6 w/IPS450 Pods
    The pistons aren’t really pistons where motion in both directions is fluid driven. It’s more like a spring loaded diaphragm system. Fluid flows into the top and exerts pressure on the diaphragm as the volume builds. The diaphragm is under spring pressure holding it in the retracted position. As the fluid pressure exceeds the spring pressure the piston extends. So retracting the piston after it is extended is simply a matter of allowing the fluid to flow back into the reservoir.
     
    Nelco likes this.
  17. IRDaleBracey

    IRDaleBracey New Member

    14
    Sep 20, 2020
    San Antonio, TX
    280 Sundancer 2005, Twin Mercruiser 305
    Twin Mercruiser 305
    Thanks for the mention @Nelco
    Yes, this is using the serial signal panel with EMI.
    One side works up and down.
    Other side only works in one direction.
    Based on the fact that direction is affected by motor polarity and not valves, we know the motor signals are good, since it uses the same two wires for motor control for both sides.
    Solenoid actuation is good for both buttons on one side, but the down(up) botton on the other works but up(down) button does not. Again, since the same wire is used for "up and down" to open the solenoid, we can rule out wire signal from EIM to solenoid issue, yes?
    This leaves me to believe the pad buttons within the helm pod are collapsed/failed. Here is why.
    Top left button (motor turns, solenoid clicks, trim moves.)
    Bottom left button (motor turns, solenoid clicks, trim moves.)
    Top right button (no motor, no solenoid click, no move)
    Bottom right button requires VERY HARD press and only when moving finger over a certain area (intermittent motor, intermittent solenoid click, intermittent move)

    Had the top button done anything at all (motor or click) and not been so hard to press, I would assume something downline. Had the lower button not been so hard to press, I would assume something downline.
    The combination of those factors tends to lead me to believe the pad buttons are bad internally. They are surface mounted membrane switches with flex domes.
     
    Nelco likes this.
  18. IRDaleBracey

    IRDaleBracey New Member

    14
    Sep 20, 2020
    San Antonio, TX
    280 Sundancer 2005, Twin Mercruiser 305
    Twin Mercruiser 305
    Solendoid works in other direction... solenoid fine.
     
  19. IRDaleBracey

    IRDaleBracey New Member

    14
    Sep 20, 2020
    San Antonio, TX
    280 Sundancer 2005, Twin Mercruiser 305
    Twin Mercruiser 305
    @Henry Boyd thank you so much, though...
    See my outline above.
    I could see a jam being an issue, but the pump does not energize nor solenoid when pressing the upper right button. However, lower right, wbile hard to press, energized motor and solenoid. This is less a matter of trim not moving and more a matter of that direction doing nothing at all.
     
  20. scoflaw

    scoflaw Well-Known Member

    Aug 10, 2011
    cape cod mass, cape coral fl
    1999 Powerquest legend 260 sx
    502 mpi Bravo 1
    Where did he say the button is hard to press? So with that theory he should be able to get the tab working properly by hot wiring like the video shows.
     
    Henry Boyd likes this.

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