Used Sundancer Questions

This relates to just the size of the first boat. I say go for whatever size you need for your mission. I have a friend who had never boated in his life and wanted to give it a go. He lives in Colorado. He spec’d and built a brand new 42 foot Tiara Open. He rented a big SUV in Colorado, packed what he thought he would need for a year and drove to Holland Michigan to pick up his new boat from the factory. He took a two week course, from the factory captain dealing with seamanship and routine maintenance. At the end of the training he and his wife began the Great Loop. I saw him take off and a year later helped him tie up at the end of the loop. They had a great trip. Learned a lot about boating. Did zero damage to the boat which still looked to be in show room condition after a year of daily use. The Cummins mechanic stopped by and did all the major scheduled maintenance which was a fairly long list given the usage. He kept the boat for a few months and moved up to a 55 foot boat. Motivated, bright people can learn to do most anything. Pursue your dream.
 
My agreed value policy for my 2000 380DA is about $700/year. I am inland lake, so that’s a big savings in premium

I go through rich at McGriff, which I believe. He is an independent broker. His email is ralderson@mcgriff.com and policy is a yacht policy through CHUBB


RobC4Sea said:
Good points. I have a current GEICO quote of $7400 a year for a Sundancer 380. I wish it was lower, but it is what it is. I plan to ask around and check other providers. For kicks, I may see what the difference is for a 450.
The 1998 DA500 review I mentioned regarding handling was by David Pascoe, an influential marine surveyor.
https://www.yachtsurvey.com/boatreviews/sea_ray_500.htm
The training I mentioned wasn't from boat buddies (although they are family friends). These two have over 100000 miles between commercial and private vessels and licensed to 100 tons. I'm also looking at the courses offered by BoatUS and the power cruiser course from US power boating. I imagine some will be repetitive, but that's not a bad thing.
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I've been watching this thread.

Over the last 35 years I've gone from a 19' bowrider to a 22'Grady toa 33' 10 Meter Trojan and jut now to a 45' Sundancer.

All the advice given is valid.

I would add that widely spaced diesels have a tremendous effect on handling.

I just listed my 10 Meter yesterday (shameless promotion)

She was mechanically refitted in 2006 with FACTORY NEW Yanmar 6LP Diesels

Full cosmetic refit in 2018 also included a FACTORY NEW Northern Lights Genset

Her LOA is 37. This combined with her 13' beam allows for tremendous space and feel aboard. With her Delta Conic hull, she rides like a 40 footer

She has all new electronics - 2018 and basically needs NOTHING.

She features woodless stringer, vacuum liner construction, and a solid glass hull, among other things.

She is running VEEM props and is equipped with a Floscan.

Despite being an orphaned Brand, factory parts, records and support are still available.

She is as turn key as there is.

This would likely lower your entry cost, give you an updated, reliable machine and lower your Insurance & O&M costs

Might be something to consider in your unique situation.

Let me know if you are interested and I'll send along a link to the ad just placed yesterday.

For now, here's some info:

http://trojanboat.com/boating-may-1981/

http://trojanboat.com/trojans-new-thoroughbred-motor-boating-sailing-may-1981/

www.trojanboat.com
 
@RobC4Sea I haven't read this entire thread but I think you're going to have a hard time getting really focused feedback with a post like this. I don't think anyone in the history of CSR has legitimately had a 12' range in models being considered for purchase :) A 500 Sundancer is quite literally twice the boat when compared to a 380 (40klbs weight vs 18klbs).

But hey...you want actual responses to your questions:
  • Does anyone have feedback on which specific Sundancer model may be best?
    • Buy the biggest boat you can afford. Get the 500DA!
  • I read a review from a noted surveyor that the '98 DA500 was brutal in 3 foot chop. Any that handle well in rough water?
    • Any Sundancer will be brutal in 3 foot head seas if you keep it running 20+kts. And any Sundancer should be fine in a 3 foot following sea if you manage your speed. This is less about the boat, IMO, and more about how you run it. On Lake Michigan the 65' Viking's stay on the dock in the same weather us tiny Sea Ray 400's do.
  • What engines from those years to avoid, etc.?
    • It's popular around my docks to trash anything Detroit Diesel. If you end up in the 380/390/400 range be sure to also consider gas engines.
  • Some have been freshwater only, or say "freshwater cooled" can those be sea going too?
    • I think this was shared above but you'd want to avoid any boats "raw water cooled" for use in salt water
  • Some appear to have swim decks big enough for a PWC, yeah or nay on that?
    • I run a 500lbs dinghy on my platform. SeaDoo Sparks weigh less than that. I'd say go for it. Big $$$'s can be spent on the proper davit, of course.
 
When I was shopping for a newer boat I was looking in the 48'-60' range. Looked at 48' Sea Ray Sedan Bridge boats, Viking & Oceans 48'-55' Sportfishes, 3 550 Sedan Bridges & a couple of 560s & 580s and 45'-60' Hatts. Tried to find something that was diesel powered, had a cockpit & hardtop & 3 staterooms that would pass a survey. I spent over $18,000 on surveys & travel and had runarounds with insurance companies so I settled for the 400DB which is smaller than my last boat and doesn't have nearly the quality or amenities but I wasn't going a season without a boat. I overpaid for it just like anyone else that bought a boat in this crazy market and now I'll be stuck with it for a while. My budget started out at $400,000 but with covid and travel restrictions it limited my search area. I had accepted offers with money in escrow and under contract on 14 boats and full/complete surveys done on 6 boats, the others we stopped as soon as we found findings that made me weary and walked. The insurance companies were very picky on what they would allow due to the overwhelming demand of new boats & new owner's purchases.

So look at every possibility and make sure it's exactly what you want and that it passes a mechanical & structural survey and you can find an insurance company to give you a yacht policy based on the surveys findings.

Good luck.
 
Strypes said:
When I was shopping for a newer boat I was looking in the 48'-60' range. Looked at 48' Sea Ray Sedan Bridge boats, Viking & Oceans 48'-55' Sportfishes, 3 550 Sedan Bridges & a couple of 560s & 580s and 45'-60' Hatts. Tried to find something that was diesel powered, had a cockpit & hardtop & 3 staterooms that would pass a survey. I spent over $18,000 on surveys & travel and had runarounds with insurance companies so I settled for the 400DB which is smaller than my last boat and doesn't have nearly the quality or amenities but I wasn't going a season without a boat. I overpaid for it just like anyone else that bought a boat in this crazy market and now I'll be stuck with it for a while. My budget started out at $400,000 but with covid and travel restrictions it limited my search area. I had accepted offers with money in escrow and under contract on 14 boats and full/complete surveys done on 6 boats, the others we stopped as soon as we found findings that made me weary and walked. The insurance companies were very picky on what they would allow due to the overwhelming demand of new boats & new owner's purchases.

So look at every possibility and make sure it's exactly what you want and that it passes a mechanical & structural survey and you can find an insurance company to give you a yacht policy based on the surveys findings.

Good luck.
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Well crap. Now we know of at least two people that were crazy enough to have a 12' range when shopping. :)
 
FootballFan said:
That is very high for a 38. Have you confirmed restrictions? Insuring the boat is not the challenge, it is insuring with you as the operator.

The qualifications of those providing instruction to you makes no difference to the underwriter.
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Agreed, I have quotes under $2000
 
lawndoctor said:
This. I “jumped” from a 33 footer to a 56 footer last year, and despite having decades of boating experience and ownership, most insurers wouldn’t touch it. Apparently many underwriters consider anything over a 10 foot “jump” to be an unacceptable risk. I would get a good insurance broker on board before you consider buying a boat that size as your first boat.
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I agree. I met a guy in my class while going for my captains license who was retiring and moving out of a 42' to a new 65'. His insurance company told him that the only way they would insure it was if he got his captains license.
 
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RobC4Sea said:
That's what I'm seeing. I have been researching for several months. For the 500s, I'd have to go with an older boat. For the 380s, I can actually pay cash. I'm looking to stay under $200k overall.
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Rob, I'll take a stab at the Sundancer question. I am a Cruiser type guy. I have had bridge boats. Nothing against them, I just prefer Cruisers. Not sure what it is or why. Just do. Now looking at the Sundancer line from the mid 1995 era to say 2005 or so, In my opinion, the 2000 to 2002 Sundancer 510 is the best bang for the buck. Great looking boat, great engine options, plenty of room. You won't have any issues being 6'4". Not sure you will find one for under $200k. If you start at the 510 Sundancer of this era as your base model and then go from there and compare it to what else is out there I think you will get a feel for whats what.. Hope that helps.
 
I just read this entire thread. Here’s my opinion. You need to spend some time ‘on the docks.’ Im in Kemah, we own a 460 but have 380, 410, 460, 540, 56 sedan, 580,60, 650 on our dock. Come visit!
 
Rob,
Just read this thread and good for you. I am sure you will find what works for you and regardless make it work. We started with a 30 Sundancer and 3 little kids spending almost every weekend on it with them in Souther California enjoying trips to Catalina monthly. It was super to see them grow up enjoying the water and what that lifestyle has to offer. Now we moved to South East Florida and taken the boating thing to the next level. Yes you can boat year round here but living here 10 years now I find winter to be the time I spend doing maintenance and upgraded while enjoying some short cruising. Summer and it is off to the Bahama's. Yes everyone is correct in telling you it will cost more than you ever expected...this is true. But it is worth every penny. As far as a boat I would focus on a new as possible and well maintained as possible. If you are boating on a budget like most of us do you will do most of your own maintenance. This will consume you for sure. Me personally I am ADD and have to keep busy so doing maintenance is something I actually love to do. My wife says I cannot sit still. My latest boat is a 2006 48DA and while it was low hours it sat which is harder on a boat than use so I have had to go through everything. Yes always something to work on but when you spend your first week in the Bahamas you realize why all the hard work pays off and makes it so much fun. Finding the right boat and finding the right location to dock your boat are going to be the biggest decisions you will make. As you probably will not use it hours wise like you think but I will tell you that you will spend a lot of time at your dock working on it and you want to be in the right place for that - easy access, close to marine stores, around other places that work on boats. This makes it much easier for your to get your work done trust me. I am super fortunate being int the yachting capital of the world, Ft Lauderdale. I have everything I need around me to get the info and parts needed for my maintenance as well as 2 hours to the Bahamas when I want to get away. Not to mention a protected marina so when storms come I am in the safest place I can be all things being. Good luck on your search and look forward to reading all about it.
 
If you are already looking at that size boat, and planning on taking the time to learn how to sail her, you will It is a waste of time and money. My first boat was a 37' Aft Cabin Motor Yacht and I just upgraded to a 410 Sundancer. Yes I admit that the first year I had a few time where my inexperience ALMOST got me in trouble but I stuck with it, never gave up and by the second season I was as good or better than guys that had large boats for 10+ years. Good luck wit your search.
Scott
 
Captsteve427 said:
I agree. I met a guy in my class while going for my captains license who was retiring and moving out of a 42' to a new 65'. His insurance company told him that the only way they would insure it was if he got his captains license.
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This is a real consideration. An insurance carrier should be spoken to, to see if they will insure you to jump right into a big boat. Many may have requirements like this.
 
As I've said before, I went from 320 to 500. Insurance was not an issue with my boating "license". I'm 6'4" also. I've never been on a Sundancer where I've had to duck.
 
spikedaddy99 said:
As I've said before, I went from 320 to 500. Insurance was not an issue with my boating "license". I'm 6'4" also. I've never been on a Sundancer where I've had to duck.
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But the OP isn’t upsizing. He’s going from land to something big. So he should check. Costs nothing to check. I was just with a guy last week who did just this (land to big boat, but not Sea Ray) and the insurer required he get training or use a captain before insuring.
 
spikedaddy99 said:
As I've said before, I went from 320 to 500. Insurance was not an issue with my boating "license". I'm 6'4" also. I've never been on a Sundancer where I've had to duck.
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my insurance company (CHUBB) asked what boats i had owned previously when i bought my 380. I stated the last was a 28' cuddy and before that was a 19' runabout... owned boats my entire adult life. no more questions, but i can see jumping into a 42' cruiser would raise a flag or 2 as a first time boat owner and raise the risk for the insurance company....
 
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