What's the best shaft seals?

NotHerDecision

NotHerDecision

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2016
2,173
Houston, Texas
Boat Info
2001 Sea Ray 460 Sundancer
2014 Seadoo 155 LTD
2105 Seadoo 130 SE
2013 Mercury Dinghy
Engines
Cummins 6CTA 8.3L
Pretty self explanatory I need new shaft seals. There is not a spare on my shaft. What is the best type brand or style?

Thanks

Josh


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I really don't care. I just want these replaced and would like something I can service.


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The yards and mechanics here in the coastal south favor the PSS face seal style. They usual can talk Tides owners into replacing with PSS when replacement is due.


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Frank W had a very convincing post some time ago. The short version was this if I remember. If you boat in shallow sandy waters the Tides will perform better when the sand you kick up is sucked into the cooling water. The PSS seals are better if you are running in clear deep water. The sand over time will wear the PSS seals faces down.

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fr8dog said:
My mechanic is a fan if Tides
Click to expand...

This X2. Very simply the Tides seal are not subject to catastrophic failure as the OSS are. They can also be serviced without a haul out like the PSS. My boat has the "old style" Tides seal with the spare seals still intact. Gone 6 years since I bought the bought and they have yet to leak a drop.
 
You can't go wrong with either choice. I have not seen a "catastrophic" failure of either one. The great part is a dry bilge. There are fans of both.....Frank likes Tides....I like PSS. Both require cooling hoses and periodic inspection.

You will find "haters" of both companies usually the result of a profound lack of knowledge or experience. Their stories usually begin with: "I bought this boat last month and the dripless seals are leaking.....how can this be happening???" Well, the simple truth is that bent shafts, clogged/blocked cooling lines, running on one shaft without a crossover cooling line will wreak havoc with either system. Having a working knowledge of either system goes a long way. I have installed dozens of PSS units and have had them on my boat for 16 years......with zero issues.
 
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I have called a couple of marinas around Galveston and it seems they favor the PSS. Funny thing is, I have the PSS seals on the boat now, but I don't not have the history so who knows how long they have been on the boat. I will admit, it seems the PSS do have a better system, but this is just from my readings. We do have a failry shollw muddy bottom here. Does anyone have a link to Franks opinion thread?

Thanks

Josh
 
Josh,

Here is the thread you asked about:

http://clubsearay.com/showthread.php/70723-Dripless-Shaft-seals-anyone-done-this


Read carefully and you will see that where you boat, what your bottom conditions are and how you operate all have a huge effect on which seal is right for you. What is right for me in NW Fla and how we use our boat means our seal choice may not be right for you. We have 2-3 ft of water under our boat in the slip at low tide, so reversing when docking always churns up sand. Additionally, we frequently anchor with the stern of the boat in 3 ft or less of water on a popular island beach, so again, we stir up sand on occasion. Tides seals just work better in this are for these conditions. While I like the PSS/Lasdrop seal design a little better from an engineering standpoint, they are only used here on commercial boats that operate in deep water all the time.
 
Thanks. Just read through them all. I admit for once I am being a little lazy but what specifically makes you lean toward the sureseal in sandy areas? I also have lots of shallow water


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PlayDate said:
You can't go wrong with either choice. I have not seen a "catastrophic" failure of either one. The great part is a dry bilge. There are fans of both.....Frank likes Tides....I like PSS. Both require cooling hoses and periodic inspection.

You will find "haters" of both companies usually the result of a profound lack of knowledge or experience. Their stories usually begin with: "I bought this boat last month and the dripless seals are leaking.....how can this be happening???" Well, the simple truth is that bent shafts, clogged/blocked cooling lines, running on one shaft without a crossover cooling line will wreak havoc with either system. Having a working knowledge of either system goes a long way. I have installed dozens of PSS units and have had them on my boat for 16 years......with zero issues.
Click to expand...

Playdate: PM sent regarding this...
 
NotHerDecision said:
Thanks. Just read through them all. I admit for once I am being a little lazy but what specifically makes you lean toward the sureseal in sandy areas? I also have lots of shallow water


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Click to expand...

I believe the "theory" is that sand particles picked up by engine intake in shallow water will be pushed into the shaft log via the cooling hose. Some believe (usually those with Tides seals) that a lip seal (Tides) made of rubber with a nitril edge is less sensitive to sand particles in the cooling water than the face of a stainless steel hub on a carbon surface (PSS). I don't have an opinion one way or another since both systems are time tested and each product has their supporters.
 
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Actually, there is a little more to it than just the lip seal being less sensitive to sand.

The PSS seal relies on a carbon follower mating against a stainless disc. The carbon block can get scarred by sand, shell debris, etc. stirred up by the props in the seal which causes leaks. In the Tides design, a Delrin housing rides on the shaft with cooling water injected between the lip seal and the Delrin housing which tends to flush the sand, etc out of the seal housing and back into the shaft log. The purpose of the Delrin housing is to hold the lip seal centered on the shaft, not to prevent water from entering the boat. Over time, the Delrin housing can wear if enough sand passes thru it. When that happens, the lip seal is no longer held centered on the shaft and it can have some runout which will eventually wear the lip seal and it will leak. The irritating part of Tides ownership is that when the Delrin housing wears, replacing the lip seal is only a short term fix because the new seal is immediately exposed to the runout in the housing on the shaft. The only true fix is to replace the entire seal assembly. I've had Tides Seals in this location and these boating conditions for 25 years and I get somewhere between 5 and 7 years out of a set of seals.

I'll say again.........This is what works for me in this area and these circumstances my not be what you experience. However, if you are in a shallow sandy area, think long and hard about the carbon follower/stainless rotor seal design.
 
Well the only experience I actually have is my own and here it is. The boat lived in deep water when I bought her. There were no leaks. She has been with me since September 16 and I have done nothing to the shaft seals as far as maintaince and both now leak. I called a local yard today and he thinks he can clean them and they may stop leaking. All in all Frank's experience may be what I need follow because of our area. The only anomaly is both yards here want to sell the PSS seals. There are plenty of areas where I am close enough to stir up significant sand and silt on the bottom. Heck the Kemah channel is only 8ft deep.

Josh


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I don't know enough about the 2 types of seals to have an opinion, But I like the Tides seals that are in my boat. They are original to the boat and never leaked a drop until we drove it down the Mississippi last fall. The Mississippi was a muddy torrent because of the wet weather last fall in the upper Midwest. Each night when doing my ER check, I would see a coffee colored stain caused from a trickle of water under the seal, but only one side. It would leak a total of about 3 or 4 tablespoons of water while underway each day. It did this every day until we made the turn up the Ohio, which was fairly clean water. No more drips, and hasn't dripped a drop since, that was 300 hrs and 2000 miles ago.
DSC_0780_zps91jzhvhc.jpg

220 miles of pumping silt and sand laden water.
 
Josh, my boat is hauled right now finally getting the 15 year old Tides Strong Seals replaced with the newer design Tides Sure Seal. It uses a bellowed tube and a screw clamp system to hold the seal in place. After 15 years the old seal had grooved the shaft a bit. Fortunately the new seal system lines up the seal at a different spot on the shaft.


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I use my boat for trolling Lake Michigan. Both engines running and only under power with one engaged at a time out of concern for my Tides dripless shaft seals. After reading through this entire thread, I have concluded that I need to install a crossover cooling line for those times when I troll on one engine? Is this a safe DIY project?
 
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