windlass wiring?

[boatman37]

According to Crowline my boat was pre-wired for a Windlass but I can't find the wire. Anyway, my question is more about the wire sizing. I looked at the Lewmar site but want to be sure I am looking at it right. Boat is 25' so figuring a 30' run. Need about a 6-8' run to go from the battery to the battery switch. Then about a 2' run from the battery switch to the breaker (breaker is already installed and has powered wire in and wire out but can't find the other end). From there about an 8' run to the contactor (will be beside the helm). From there about a 20' run to the anchor locker. Guessing anywhere from 30-35' total length. I understand I need to double that for the ground. On Lewmars site it says 0-33' 8GA. So based on that I could probably get away with 8GA? If I need to run wire I plan to go with 6GA but if it is pre-wired I'm figuring it has 8GA. If that is the case I plan to try it with that wire and if I keep tripping the breaker then I will run new 6GA. Not concerned with the price difference but am wondering how much harder 6GA would be to fish through everything that 8GA? As far as how tight the room will be to get wire through certain points.

 

[Nater Potater]

Going to a smaller wire gauge won't cause the breaker to trip, as the wire size dictates how much current it can carry. Rather, as long as the breaker is big enough to handle the windlass load, running a too-small wire will lead to reduced current available at the windlass, plus (the biggest concern) the potential for overheated wiring.
Except for cost/stiffness/weight, there's no functional disadvantage to running a larger than spec'd wire. Hopefully, you'll find it's run with 6ga. However, as you've noted, 8ga should be good for 40 amps up to 30 feet. The worst you'll find is that the winch won't have quite enough power, as some of the energy will be lost as heat from the wiring.

8ga at 30 feet will net you a 10% voltage loss when pulling 40 amps. Oh, wait, that's 20% loss, because you're actually running a total of 60 feet. That means you'll only see 11.2 volts at the windlass, assuming a nominal 14 volt system. Lewmars must figure on that, based on their recommendation. Try it; the worst that happens is you have to string some 8ga wire.

 

[hughespat57]

According to Crowline my boat was pre-wired for a Windlass
breaker is already installed and has powered wire in and wire out but can't find the other end
30-35' total length. need to double that for the ground.

My favorite tool for these questions http://circuitwizard.bluesea.com/

And yes for the calculator you use the loop distance battery->load->battery so your looking at 60 feet
What does Lewmar call for the circuit breaker size?
What size breaker is pre-installed in the boat?
What size wire is out from that breaker?

That plus length will dictate the wire size that is safe.
As @Nater Potater pointed out breakers are to prevent fires from overheated or shorted wiring.
They are not primarily to protect the load (windlass).

@60ft 10% drop, variable load, 5 minutes run, 50A you need 6AWG wire
@60ft 10% drop, variable load, 5 minutes run, 100A you need 3AWG wire

If a breaker and wire are present, and
if they appear suitable size,
find out where they go, save yourself a lot of work.

 

[Creekwood]

Why not contact crownline and ask them what they used?

 

[boatman37]

My favorite tool for these questions http://circuitwizard.bluesea.com/

And yes for the calculator you use the loop distance battery->load->battery so your looking at 60 feet
What does Lewmar call for the circuit breaker size?
What size breaker is pre-installed in the boat?
What size wire is out from that breaker?

That plus length will dictate the wire size that is safe.
As @Nater Potater pointed out breakers are to prevent fires from overheated or shorted wiring.
They are not primarily to protect the load (windlass).

@60ft 10% drop, variable load, 5 minutes run, 50A you need 6AWG wire
@60ft 10% drop, variable load, 5 minutes run, 100A you need 3AWG wire

If a breaker and wire are present, and
if they appear suitable size,
find out where they go, save yourself a lot of work.

Thanks. The breaker that was factory installed is 35A and the one that comes with the V700 I believe is also 35A.

@Creekwood that isn't a bad idea but not sure how accurate the info will be. I contacted them about the wire and they told me it would be in the anchor locker attached to 2 post terminals covered with rubber protectors. Can't find any such thing in there....lol.

The biggest issue is the way the locker is designed. There is no way to see in there so I have had to hold my phone in there and take videos so any work done will have to be by feel only. There is some flexible plastic conduit in there but I can't reach it. I MAY be able to reach it if I pull in bow first and sit on the dock and reach in. Another option is to go ahead and drill the mounting holes for the windlass then might be able to use that hole to reach the wiring.

Here are some pics to give an idea:

This is how it would look finished. There is a door that closes over top of the windlass. The wall with the conduit attached is about 4" back from the rear wall of the windlass 'shelf' so can't reach it from laying on the bow cause my arm won't bend that way and you can only go in elbow deep then.



This is our boat and these are the only wires I can see in there:

 

[Nater Potater]

Without knowing for sure, it looks like there's two smaller wires in a flex that's branched out of a much larger flex. My hope for you is that the large flex contains the heavy-gauge wires for your windlass. I wonder how they figure on you getting to those wires once the two halves of the boat were assembled together! 'Know anyone that can loan out a six-year-old?

 

[Creekwood]

Is there a hatch at the end of your forward v-berth for access to that locker? Normally behind a mirror or something. If not, installation of the windlass is going to be a MAJOR PIA. The motor/gear side is really heavy and awkward to align to the top part and you really need access from below.

 

[hughespat57]

at 35A you can use AWG8 up to 50 feet, over that it should be AWG6
But I'm sure what's factory installed should be fine. If you can find where it ends.

Is your cabin like this?
Whats behind the speakers?

 

[hughespat57]

Have you considered getting rid of the mirror?

 

[boatman37]

Yes that looks like my interior. From what I can see the mirror is not removable, at least not to access the locker. The inside of the locker is fiberglassed the whole way across. I also pulled a speaker but there are plastic 'dog bowl' looking plastic pieces that I assume are to protect the backside of the speakers and are screwed in from inside the locker. You might get lucky and be able to get a screw gun on them blindly to remove them but not sure you'd ever get it back on.

Accessing the motor shouldn't be too bad since it will only be a few inches away from the hole in the locker. Won't be able to see but shouldn't be bad feeling around to get it. I'm not familiar with 'lining up the gear housing' so not sure there but think (hope) that will be easier than accessing the wires?

And Nater...not sure a 6 year old can even get in there...lol. And I'm hoping you are right that the 8GA wires are in that loom.

I have video from my phone that I have taken inside the locker. Don't know how much good that would do as it is very 'zoomed' and hard to get an idea of the whole picture of it

 

[hughespat57]

Well depending how patient you are or how frustrated you get is why I asked about the getting rid of the mirror.

I am about to attempt the same upgrade, adding a windlass. I have a smaller rectangular mirror that may become a TV...
Break the mirror, cut a hole, mount the windlass easier, make a cover plate (water tight), replace mirror with a nice wood panel and mount a TV.

 

[boatman37]

Well depending how patient you are or how frustrated you get is why I asked about the getting rid of the mirror.

I am about to attempt the same upgrade, adding a windlass. I have a smaller rectangular mirror that may become a TV...
Break the mirror, cut a hole, mount the windlass easier, make a cover plate (water tight), replace mirror with a nice wood panel and mount a TV.

lol. not a bad option but we already have a TV mounted on the end of the cabinet...lol. But I get what you are saying. Our 250DA mirror had hinges so made it very easy to access the locker

 

[boatman37]

So what would be the odds that the windlass wiring would run up the port side? I don't see any reason other than they didn't have enough room on the starboard side but there looks to be a larger loom coming from the port side into the locker. I'm still in that same slip in the pic below so figure if I pull in bow in I can sit on the dock and reach into there. Like I said, have to go by feel cause you can't get your head in there.
I might order the windlass this weekend so I can get the template and cut the 4.5" and 2.5" hole to mount the windlass then should be able to use those holes to get to that loom easier. At that point I'm committed though so have to get it done. I plan to epoxy the cut edges too so that would give me time to let that set up.
Will be heading down there later this afternoon but weather sucks and probably won't even walk out to the boat but supposed to be a little better tomorrow. Gonna ask the one guy there to help out with reaching in there. He is pretty skinny and has long arms and knows his way around boats...lol.
If we find the wires I will definitely be ordering the V700 before Sunday night

 

[Nater Potater]

'Might be worth it: https://www.amazon.com/Inspection-F...=1626562734&sprefix=orthoscope,aps,274&sr=8-4

 

[boatman37]

'Might be worth it: https://www.amazon.com/Inspection-Fantronics-Waterproof-Borescope-Adjustable/dp/B071HYRPND/ref=sr_1_4?crid=1EFTCEUYWX1M0&dchild=1&keywords=orthoscope+camera&qid=1626562734&sprefix=orthoscope,aps,274&sr=8-4

Not sure that would help much. I can already get my phone in there and see what's there, just can't reach what is in there. If I cut the mounting holes for the windlass I should be able to get to them just afraid to plop down $700 to find the wires aren't there then find it is too much trouble to run them. At that point I would have already cut the holes so would be committed

 

[boatman37]

Another question...was thinking about this last night. Dock neighbor bought a 26' Wellcraft and was given a windlass so he was asking me about it. Started thinking...the first cable goes from the battery to the Perko switch, correct? Well there is already a wire coming from there. Can't you just run from the 'out' post on the Perko switch? Or is that too much load for that one cable?

 

[hughespat57]

If that is the battery disconnect to the starter and most everything.
That’s where you want to start then as close as possible should be the 50A windless breaker

 

[boatman37]

If that is the battery disconnect to the starter and most everything.
That’s where you want to start then as close as possible should be the 50A windless breaker

Yeah on mine the Perko switch is about 4 or 5' from the batteries then the Lewmar breaker is about 1' from the switch. Then I would probably mount the contacter about 1' from the breaker which would be about 5' from the helm.

 

[hughespat57]

Confirm the particular windlass motor wiring before choosing a location for the relay.
Larger Windlasses (V1) have a compound wound motor with three terminals +CCW +CW Ground
These need the relay mounted near the windlass.
Smaller (V700) have a two wire motor, the relay can be mounted at the windlass or at the stern.

 

[boatman37]

Yeah I'd be going with the V700. That was what would have been installed from the factory if it had one