2003 Sea Ray 500 Sundancer with QSM11

[JV II]

I'm thinking of buying one with 1,000 hours on the engines. Any advice, comments, feedback on that model? Of course, I'll get as survey.
Anyone have one and want to share their experience?

[HUMPH]

Nice boat but I was not too fold of the layout. 1,000 hours, if properly maintained is nothing...

[Four Suns]

I can't comment on the boat but I know a lot about the QSM-11's... Not as much as Tony Athens by a long shot over at Boat Diesel but am on my 10th season with them in my 480 DB.

There are a few things that will (not might) go wrong with these things:

1. The front gear case oil seal will fail and have black goop ooze out the sides. Cummins put some crappy sealant on the thing that absorbed oil (i.e. was not compatable with oil) and it will fail. No recall... and the front engine mount has to be loosened to get to this seal... which means lifting the front of the engine a little. About a $2K fix for the pair. If you see black ooze, have them fix it or plan on fixing it.

2. There is a bracket that holds the coolant reservoir on the engine that WILL crack. It is made out of 1/32" aluminum whereas the brackets that hold on the on-engine gauges are made out of 1/4" welded steel. Go figure. I had some fabricated out of 1/4" steel and they have held up well...

3. Make sure the engines never ingested the screen from the cheap-ass Racor air filter they put on when it was new. The internal screens had a tendency to come apart on these things and suck metal into the turbo and into the pistons and out the exhaust. I put Walker airseps on mine when I bought the boat but watched as people were replacing turbos. Pull off the air cleaner and make sure the turbo blades are all OK... If the boat has had new turbos installed, then chances are some bad stuff went into the engines at some point.

4. Check the exhaust manifold for leaks by looking for black soot. Mine now have 1000 hours and the port engine has some soot on the junction between the exhaust manifold and the head. The QSM-11 has a dry exhaust (hey! No salt water being sucked into the head!!) but it gets really hot (will glow red) and the tend to leak. Tony Athens over at boat diesel basically says to leave it alone if it's not bad... The fix doesn't always "fix" it... I think my port engine is getting bad enough to fix though. My starboard engine is tight as can be so who knows what the deal is.

Those are the four items that seem to be very common with these engines. No sucking in valves or aftercoolers failing... You are getting to 1000 hours so you may want to make sure the raw water cooling system is clean. It may need an acid flush but that's easy.

Also, if you get Cummins out to look at the engines, they can hook a computer up to the diagnostic ports and give you a print out of how the engine was run over it's whole life. You can find out if it was beat up or run properly.

Also, the coolant should have been changed out by now per the manual... also make sure the transmission cooler bracket recall has been done. The transmission cooler will not seat well with the older style bracket and will leak sea water... into the air intake.

[JV II]

I can't comment on the boat but I know a lot about the QSM-11's... Not as much as Tony Athens by a long shot over at Boat Diesel but am on my 10th season with them in my 480 DB.

There are a few things that will (not might) go wrong with these things:

1. The front gear case oil seal will fail and have black goop ooze out the sides. Cummins put some crappy sealant on the thing that absorbed oil (i.e. was not compatable with oil) and it will fail. No recall... and the front engine mount has to be loosened to get to this seal... which means lifting the front of the engine a little. About a $2K fix for the pair. If you see black ooze, have them fix it or plan on fixing it.

2. There is a bracket that holds the coolant reservoir on the engine that WILL crack. It is made out of 1/32" aluminum whereas the brackets that hold on the on-engine gauges are made out of 1/4" welded steel. Go figure. I had some fabricated out of 1/4" steel and they have held up well...

3. Make sure the engines never ingested the screen from the cheap-ass Racor air filter they put on when it was new. The internal screens had a tendency to come apart on these things and suck metal into the turbo and into the pistons and out the exhaust. I put Walker airseps on mine when I bought the boat but watched as people were replacing turbos. Pull off the air cleaner and make sure the turbo blades are all OK... If the boat has had new turbos installed, then chances are some bad stuff went into the engines at some point.

4. Check the exhaust manifold for leaks by looking for black soot. Mine now have 1000 hours and the port engine has some soot on the junction between the exhaust manifold and the head. The QSM-11 has a dry exhaust (hey! No salt water being sucked into the head!!) but it gets really hot (will glow red) and the tend to leak. Tony Athens over at boat diesel basically says to leave it alone if it's not bad... The fix doesn't always "fix" it... I think my port engine is getting bad enough to fix though. My starboard engine is tight as can be so who knows what the deal is.

Those are the four items that seem to be very common with these engines. No sucking in valves or aftercoolers failing... You are getting to 1000 hours so you may want to make sure the raw water cooling system is clean. It may need an acid flush but that's easy.

Also, if you get Cummins out to look at the engines, they can hook a computer up to the diagnostic ports and give you a print out of how the engine was run over it's whole life. You can find out if it was beat up or run properly.

Also, the coolant should have been changed out by now per the manual... also make sure the transmission cooler bracket recall has been done. The transmission cooler will not seat well with the older style bracket and will leak sea water... into the air intake.

Thank you. I have researched some of these issues and will definitely have the surveyor check it out. So, I take it there are a lot of good things about these engines. They should not smoke much on start-up? They should last 10,000+ hours? Pretty efficient pushing around a 20 ton boat? Would you say the boat is adequately powered?

[Four Suns]

The QSM-11's have a great reputation so they will be fine in a 50' Sundancer. They push my boat around just fine and I'm guessing I have a tad more weight. 1000 hours means they have a lot of life left in them.

The CAT alternative is the 3196 which was a disaster with regards to aftercoolers and such.

[WarrenG]

They push the 500DA just fine. I get 35 mph on fresh water. Four Sons I have 496 hrs. I will check my QSM's against your list?? Had the recall done on the Tranny bracket by Cummings and all checked out well about 60 hrs ago upon purchase. Mine is a 2004, would you know if any of these issue's were upgraded?

WarrenG

[sellnit]

560 hours on mine, and they are bomb proof so far. Cummins has been out twice a year since I have owned mine. Bracket re-call has been done, and other than oil change and a engine readout they have been fantastic. If I can ask what was the asking price for the vessel you are interested in? We are starting to put our feelers out into the market on selling ours.

[WarrenG]

560 hours on mine, and they are bomb proof so far. Cummins has been out twice a year since I have owned mine. Bracket re-call has been done, and other than oil change and a engine readout they have been fantastic. If I can ask what was the asking price for the vessel you are interested in? We are starting to put our feelers out into the market on selling ours.

Here is the link to the 500DA that we bought in Dec. always covered slip and fresh water and well maintained. We love our Yacht!
http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi...url=&imc=pg-fs

WarrenG

[JV II]

560 hours on mine, and they are bomb proof so far. Cummins has been out twice a year since I have owned mine. Bracket re-call has been done, and other than oil change and a engine readout they have been fantastic. If I can ask what was the asking price for the vessel you are interested in? We are starting to put our feelers out into the market on selling ours.

2003 with ~1000 hours on the engines. Pristine condition. Asking $399,000.