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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Great Peconic Bay, ny
    Boat
    searay
    Details
    1999 400 sundancer
    Engine(s)
    CAT 3116
    Posts
    42

    Twin Cummins QSB 380's strong enough? 420 or 40 dancer?

    Have been keeping an eye out for a 420da but saw an 07 40DA with Twin Cummins QSB 380's for sale locally. My understanding is that used to be the size of the 390. I really like the layout inside but in some posts i have read that the QSB's are underpowered, but am not sure which size they were referring to. Another thread described the 40 as "slow" I hope to be moving up from a 280. Rather than hijack a thread I figured I'd just ask. Wondering if anyone has any opinion. Beside some size and the extra head - am I giving up too much if I "settle" for the 40? Looking to take up to 2 week cruises on it. Any opinions welcome. Thanks.
    "The Pearly Gate"
    '04 280 Sundancer Twim Mercruisers
    Long Island, NY
    Novice (but learning) Captain

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Boston/Cape Cod
    Boat
    Sea Ray
    Details
    1986 Sea Ray 390 Express Garmin 4212 Chartplotter Garmin 24 HD Radar Garmin GSD 22 Sounder Garm
    Engine(s)
    454 Crusaders
    Posts
    441

    Re: Twin Cummins QSB 380's strong enough? 420 or 40 dancer?

    In my opinion 380 Cummins in a 40 is adequate for a low 20 knot cruise. I would be happy with that. My 390 with 350 hp Crusaders cruises at 18 knots @3100 rpm so 380 hp diesels in basically the same hull would be a pleasure.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Middle Tennessee/NW Florida
    Boat
    Sea Ray & a Boston Whaler Dauntless (75hp Merc)
    Details
    1996 450DA
    Engine(s)
    3116 Caterpillars
    Posts
    8,420

    Re: Twin Cummins QSB 380's strong enough? 420 or 40 dancer?

    In a Sea Ray, you don't have to be concerned with the engine selection in this sized boat. They have been doing the mid-cabin Sundancer line long enough that they have it figured out. Unless you have an unrealistic expectation of cruising speed, you will find the QSB in a 40ft boat very adequate. I will also tell you that once you get to about this size, your boating enjoyment becomes more about the trip than the destination.

    My real concern with your post is that you appear to be about ready to "settle" for something less than your real want/desires in a boat. That can be the biggest mistake a boat owner ever makes because it just means you'll be back in the market in about a year looking for the boat you should have just searched out this time around. A quick yachtworld.com search shows 10 diesel 420DA's in the eastern US, so maybe you need to broaden your location parameters in order to find the right boat.
    Frank

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Great Peconic Bay, ny
    Boat
    searay
    Details
    1999 400 sundancer
    Engine(s)
    CAT 3116
    Posts
    42

    Re: Twin Cummins QSB 380's strong enough? 420 or 40 dancer?

    Quote Originally Posted by fwebster View Post
    In a Sea Ray, you don't have to be concerned with the engine selection in this sized boat. They have been doing the mid-cabin Sundancer line long enough that they have it figured out. Unless you have an unrealistic expectation of cruising speed, you will find the QSB in a 40ft boat very adequate. I will also tell you that once you get to about this size, your boating enjoyment becomes more about the trip than the destination.

    My real concern with your post is that you appear to be about ready to "settle" for something less than your real want/desires in a boat. That can be the biggest mistake a boat owner ever makes because it just means you'll be back in the market in about a year looking for the boat you should have just searched out this time around. A quick yachtworld.com search shows 10 diesel 420DA's in the eastern US, so maybe you need to broaden your location parameters in order to find the right boat.

    Thanks for the input - not at all settling - I guess that was a bad way to phrase it. I saw pics of the 40 and really like the layout of the interior. I just wasn't sure what I would give up over the 420. Cruising at 20 is ok with me. THere are plenty of options in both in the same price range. I am just looking for opinions about differences between the 2 boats that really should make me lean one way over another.
    "The Pearly Gate"
    '04 280 Sundancer Twim Mercruisers
    Long Island, NY
    Novice (but learning) Captain

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    SF BAY AREA
    Boat
    Sea Ray
    Details
    2003 410DA, 2004 C14 Caribe
    Engine(s)
    CAT 3126TA's 350HP/ 50HP Honda
    Posts
    6,485

    Re: Twin Cummins QSB 380's strong enough? 420 or 40 dancer?

    My 410DA with 350HP CAT 3126's cruises at 20 knots. 20 knots in a boat that is 45' 6" LOA feels faster than that. I came from a 320DA that cruised quite a bit faster but I don't miss it. I can turn up my engines to 385HP pretty easily but I get a good 1 MPG at 20 knots so why change that for a couple of knots at WOT?

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Lake Michigan
    Boat
    Sea Ray
    Details
    390 Sundancer 2005
    Engine(s)
    Twin 8.1's
    Posts
    896

    Re: Twin Cummins QSB 380's strong enough? 420 or 40 dancer?

    My 2 cents engines aside. We cruise w/ 2 kids on the 390 / 40 and the one bath separate shower suites us fine. Friends w/ 420 & 44 seldom use second head. Go tour the boats too see the interior size difference. We settled for 390 and tuition for University of Wisconsin has settled for the rest.
    05' 390 Sundancer 8.1's
    Milwau Key- The Northern Most Key!

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Panama City, Fl
    Boat
    Sea Ray
    Details
    2008 44 Sedan Bridge
    Engine(s)
    Cummins QSC-500's Straight Drives
    Posts
    7,722

    Re: Twin Cummins QSB 380's strong enough? 420 or 40 dancer?

    Our local service manager was telling me about a friend's 40. It is a beautiful boat, but he had been dealing with issues for a while. My service manager said the boat was underpowered. It is about 4 or 5 years old (guess), and is diesel. It's not a race, but there are different levels of power in various boats. Just passing it on.
    John

    2008 44 Sedan Bridge - Shell's Island II - Our awesome 44!
    2005 340 Sundancer - Shell's Island - The perfect 340! - TRADED!
    1997 250 Sundancer - Hampton's Inn - SOLD!

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    East Coast
    Boat
    Sea Ray
    Details
    2005 420DB with AB 11 DLX Tender, Raymarine Dual E120 MFD/Radar/XMWeather, ST7001 A/P, SeaLift
    Engine(s)
    T-Cummins 450Cs Straight-Drives, 9KW Onan Generator, 40HP Yamaha for tender.
    Posts
    7,769

    Re: Twin Cummins QSB 380's strong enough? 420 or 40 dancer?

    Although I agree with Frank, here are couple of points based on my experience.

    I've had previous SRs with basic power package and as Frank said, SR does a good job on matching them to a hull. However, it's very important to understand how you're planning to use your boat. For example, a lot of folks think (at least before they do an intensive research) that when they move up to a 40+ footer now you've got a yacht that can carry anything you want, including jetski or center consol dinghy. It's not quite that simple, but regardless this is where you'll need as much as power as you can get.

    Also, you're comparing sort of apples and oranges (420DA vs. 40DA). 40DA is smaller and lighter boat, so this is why SR managed to use smaller QSB in there.

    As you see from the posts here, when you move up to a larger boat you'll have to settle for slower speed in exchange for performance. I think this is the kind of balance SR is trying to achieve with the basic package. I agree with Ken that around 20kts-21kts should be your expectation for an AVG cruise speed with good fuel burn. If it's too slow or of you're planning to complement your new yacht with some heavy water toy on the swim platform, then make sure to take extra step and find exactly what will handle it with ease.

    Another word of advice, when looking to upgrade don't forget that the more you like the new ride the more you would want to spend time on in. This means that your cruising lifestyle most likely will change, which will include longer trips and spending more time at your destinations.

    Good luck with your search, it's very exciting process.

    2005 420DB "Inspiration" - 420/44 DB Owners Club
    Previously Owned: 2004 320DA "Boat A Bing" || 2001 240DA "Very Delicately" || 1997 175BR "Another Toy"

    Live a good life and in the end, it's not the years in a life, it's the life in the years. - Abraham Lincoln

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Bradenton, FL.
    Boat
    Sea Ray
    Details
    390 Sundancer 2005
    Engine(s)
    Cummins 380's
    Posts
    258

    Re: Twin Cummins QSB 380's strong enough? 420 or 40 dancer?

    I have the 390 with QSB 380's and I have never felt I lacked power. Comfortable cruise at 20 to 22 knots. The only minor issue I have is the smaller starboard tank (which also is the one the generator draws fuel from) becomes the range limiting factor. Still that has not been a huge issue. Clearly it's not a 340 Dancer with 8.1's but you are pushing 20,000 lbs dry weight through the water and with boats this size I wouldn't expect them to behave like a runabout (nor would I want he associated fuel consumption if it could).....as others have said it becomes more about the journey. Enjoy!
    Former Boats
    2006 300 DA
    2006 260 DA

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Long island / Peconic
    Boat
    Sea Ray
    Details
    "SeaWorld" - 2007 44da (previously Formula 37pc)
    Engine(s)
    Cummins 500
    Posts
    188

    Re: Twin Cummins QSB 380's strong enough? 420 or 40 dancer?

    I looked at the 39/40 before buying my 44 (Same as 420). The 420/44 is alot more boat (beam, larger saloon, aft cabin and cockpit, and having a 2nd head), nevermind the pocket door on the aft cabin really lets you get some privacy with guests or kids. Disagree with the comment above re: the 2nd head - with alot of guests on board it is great to keep them out of the master head (and stateroom), and if you have kids, then it truly is a added benefit, nevermind the fact that the aft head is much larger and more comfortable if you need to spend some time "sitting down"! Pefromance wise, my recollection is that the performance #s above seem right - I was coming out of a faster boat and felt the 20-22 knot cruise was light for me (confirmed on a test ride), which really pushed me to look at 420/44. That is personal preference, but after doing some cruising this year it was nice to be able to cruise at higher #'s (probably 3knots higher on both sides of the range). With that being said, the 420/44 is a more expensive boat and more costly to run - but after 4 years I am happy with my choice, and I do think had I gone with the 39/40 I would be looking to move to a 44 by now. Good luck with your decission.

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