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  1. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Georgian Bay/Lake Huron
    Boat
    Sea Ray
    Details
    2001 410 Express
    Engine(s)
    Cat 3126
    Posts
    157

    400 Sundancer with 3116's idle speed?

    In and out of gear one at a time is the solution where you can. It's the nature of the torque and big props on the diesels. They all do it.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    SF BAY AREA
    Boat
    Sea Ray
    Details
    2003 410DA, 2004 C14 Caribe
    Engine(s)
    CAT 3126TA's 350HP/ 50HP Honda
    Posts
    7,384

    Re: 400 Sundancer with 3116's idle speed?

    I idle around 750RPM and that translates to 4.6 knots or so over water.

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Sandusky, OH
    Boat
    Sea Ray
    Details
    1997 400DA w/ 3116 CATs
    Engine(s)
    3116 CATs
    Posts
    323

    Re: 400 Sundancer with 3116's idle speed?

    Quote Originally Posted by fwebster View Post
    With the shaft to shaft centerline distance on the 400, on one engine you are close to full travel on the rudder just to go straight. That makes the 400/410 pretty much of a bear to control on one engine. On my boat (450DA), you have to get some water passing over the rudders by increasing the speed to run the boat on one engine.....and that sort of defeats the whole purpose.

    I've been at this a long time and I have never seen a boat stopped or ticketed for their wake at idle.......unless you are in a 50-70 ft boat with tons of hp making about 10 kts at idle. You are expected to control your boat and you can't adequately do that if you need to turn and your rudders are all the way over just to go straight.
    I can attest to this; lost starboard engine last summer and had to limp back into the marina on just the port. Mind you, my slip requires multiple left turns to get into it, and there is ZERO chance you're coming even close to bringing the bow around with only the port at idle. We pirouetted our way through the marina making only right turns and doing the slow dance that only a single-screw veteran understands (my first 30yrs on boats were spent on sailboats and straight-inboard Lymans, so thankfully I'm well versed).

    But Frank is correct; on our 400s your wheel is hard-over to keep the bow pointed straight, and even then you better hope the wind is blowing in your favor because you have zero leeway if not.
    Last edited by Z-Worthy; 01-08-2017 at 12:08 PM.

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    N. Wisconsin/Lk Superior
    Boat
    SeaRay
    Details
    2005 420DA
    Engine(s)
    Cummins 6CTA8.3
    Posts
    4,836

    Re: 400 Sundancer with 3116's idle speed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Z-Worthy View Post
    I can attest to this; lost starboard engine last summer and had to limp back into the marina on just the port. Mind you, my slip requires multiple left turns to get into it, and there is ZERO chance you're coming even close to bringing the bow around with only the port regardless of speed. We pirouetted our way through the marina making only right turns and doing the slow dance that only a single-screw veteran understands (my first 30yrs on boats were spent on sailboats and straight-inboard Lymans, so thankfully I'm well versed).

    But Frank is correct; on our 400s your wheel is hard-over to keep the bow pointed straight, and even then you better hope the wind is blowing in your favor because you have zero leeway if not.
    This past season I ran for 11.5 hrs with just the starboard side, about 100 miles. Part of that time was crossing Lake Superior in the dark, forecast was for 2'-4' into the starboard side. There was enough rudder available that the autopilot could stay on course but it was working in the extreme starboard end of the scale. I was afraid when the wind/waves kicked up it wouldn't stay on course. I dropped the starboard tab and instantly you could see on the autopilot that about 25% less rudder was required.

    The winds never did pickup and we had pretty easy going all the way, until we neared the marina. I had been running 8 knots and was able to steer pretty good with the tab down. When I dropped to idle I lost steering, the boat just wanted to make a left hand turn.
    2005 420DA 6CTA8.3 V-Drive, current boat
    2005 280DA T-5.0MPI, 260hp, B3
    2004 270SD 496HO, 425hp, B3
    2004 200BR 5.0MPI, 260hp, Alpha 1


  5. #15
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Sandusky, OH
    Boat
    Sea Ray
    Details
    1997 400DA w/ 3116 CATs
    Engine(s)
    3116 CATs
    Posts
    323

    Re: 400 Sundancer with 3116's idle speed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Woody View Post
    This past season I ran for 11.5 hrs with just the starboard side, about 100 miles.
    Just curious, but did you manually tie off the port shaft? Or did you let it freewheel?

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    N. Wisconsin/Lk Superior
    Boat
    SeaRay
    Details
    2005 420DA
    Engine(s)
    Cummins 6CTA8.3
    Posts
    4,836

    Re: 400 Sundancer with 3116's idle speed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Z-Worthy View Post
    Just curious, but did you manually tie off the port shaft? Or did you let it freewheel?
    I checked the shaft seal after the first 15-20 minutes of running. It, the shaft, and the hoses felt as cool as the starboard side and nothing starting to drip. This all started when I hit some rocks and my first thoughts were only about taking on water.

    The initial bilge inspection, a quick dip in some cold, cold water, and that follow up about 20 minutes after put me at ease, we weren’t taking on any water.

    I didn’t think about the transmission and possible damage from free wheeling until a couple hours later. I thought of trying to tie it off with a line but didn’t. On impact the port engine was killed and now I had let it freewheel for a couple hours, I decided it was too late now and figured I probably added to the repair bill. To answer your question….I let it freewheel all the way.

    I’ve put about 35 hours on the boat since that happened. Everything sounds and runs the same so far. I do carry a strap wrench so I can easily lock the shaft down if I want in the future…I hope I don’t have to use it.

    Locking down one shaft would be an interesting test. Will the boat steer much different dragging the prop vs. free wheeling?

    Typing this I remembered that my oil samples are sitting in the garage, I forgot to send them in. It'll be interesting to see what the port transmission sample shows.
    Last edited by Woody; 01-07-2017 at 12:27 PM.
    2005 420DA 6CTA8.3 V-Drive, current boat
    2005 280DA T-5.0MPI, 260hp, B3
    2004 270SD 496HO, 425hp, B3
    2004 200BR 5.0MPI, 260hp, Alpha 1


  7. #17
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Sandusky, OH
    Boat
    Sea Ray
    Details
    1997 400DA w/ 3116 CATs
    Engine(s)
    3116 CATs
    Posts
    323

    Re: 400 Sundancer with 3116's idle speed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Woody View Post
    Locking down one shaft would be an interesting test. Will the boat steer much different dragging the prop vs. free wheeling?
    It makes a noticeable difference. When I lost the starboard, we were only a few hundred yards outside of our marina. So I figured for the few minutes it would take, I'd just leave it in gear and let the transmission hold it. After realizing that I couldn't even maintain course, I put it in neutral and let it freewheel. Only then was I able to maintain course at idle. So I imagine if you're trying go any substantial distance, it's probably smart to tie it off. But once you get into close quarters and need to dock, let it freewheel. At least that was my experience.

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