Need Voice of Reason

O

ohioboater

Member
Aug 20, 2019
43
Huron, OH
Boat Info
2004 SeaRay 240 SD
Engines
Mercruiser 350 MAG MPI
Bravo III
I am/will be new to boating. My wife and I fell in love with a 2004 SeaRay Sundeck 240. It has 350 hours on the engine. It is stored on the trailer and launched and retrieved each time it has been used. The question is on a survey. Where the boat is located (central Ohio), there are no surveyors, so travel time alone is adding $200 to the cost of any survey. I have seen prices from $500 to $900 with some including sea trials, some not, some doing this test, some doing that test, another guy saying a sea trial is worthless because "all I do is go for a boat ride". We had a survey (which wasn't going to include a sea trial) set for tomorrow, but boat owner had to cancel due to work. Had another date set for next Friday, the next surveyor I found (original wasn't available) was going to do sea trial along with the survey and he cancelled to go chase hurricane work. My wife and I are torn between saying "screw it" and having the owner take us out for a "sea trial" and if all goes well, buying the damn thing. Common sense is telling me to be patient (we would REALLY like to be able to use it a couple times this season yet before winter sets in here in Ohio). I know three boat owners and all three of said for a boat that size they wouldn't bother with the survey, especially given the low hours and the fact it isn't left in the water in season (which would mean the chance of hull saturation are very low). I am torn......need thoughts/opinions. Slap some sense into me.
 
Tough call. I have purchased and sold boats in that size range without a survey numerous times - all fine. What is your boat experience level? Can you evaluate engine and drive sounds, determine if the WOT rpm and speed are correct, test all of the systems on the boat, look for cracks and stress points in the fiberglass, etc. If the answer is no - get the survey.
 
From my experience with surveyors, I wouldn't waste my time or my money on them, especially for a smaller boat without lots of systems. Moisture issues are some of the biggest problems for a boat, and since it doesn't live in the water, this is mostly negated. As far as the powertrain, all I've seen a basic surveyor get into with this is whether or not it reaches WOT. To really find out anything about the engine and drive, you'd need a mechanic or an engine surveyor anyway.

If you want the boat, and it seems good on a sea trial (which I wouldn't even give in the first place without a deposit), buy it. I'm sure many will chastise me for saying that, but your results may vary.
 
paulswagelock said:
Tough call. I have purchased and sold boats in that size range without a survey numerous times - all fine. What is your boat experience level? Can you evaluate engine and drive sounds, determine if the WOT rpm and speed are correct, test all of the systems on the boat, look for cracks and stress points in the fiberglass, etc. If the answer is no - get the survey.
Click to expand...
Boat experience = 0. I mean I would think I would notice if the engine was doing some weird shit, but who knows. I have read a ton and watched a million youtube videos, so kind of know what to watch for on the RPMs and such. The boat looks immaculate to my untrained eye around the hull and the lower unit and such, save for a blemish up front where someone banged it hard into the front trailer support/crank. The boaters I know say that blemish is "nothing".
 
Seriously. Be patient. The first boat i bought looked good, but soon after purchase I found some very expensive lessons like rotten wood that would easily been found in a survey and repaid a $1000 survey several times over.

There are a lot of expensive things that can and do go wrong even on a 24 ft boat. If you have the money to get expensive things fixed or are handy enough to fix fiberglass and or major engine issues, buy the boat without a survey. But. Being new to boating, pay for the inspection. If nothing else you will learn a lot about the boat you are buying
and have piece of mind that you made a good decision.

Search on here and you will find a lot of people who skipped a survey and wished they hadnt.
 
Does the seller have any maintenance records?

Salt or fresh water?

If the seller offers a sea trial,

Go and see if the boat reaches 4500-5000 rpm at WOT.
Then a 20 minute run in the 3400-3600 rpm range. If it stays cool and doesn’t overheat, things are looking in the right direction.
 
Espos4 said:
Does the seller have any maintenance records?

Salt or fresh water?

If the seller offers a sea trial,

Go and see if the boat reaches 4500-5000 rpm at WOT.
Then a 20 minute run in the 3400-3600 rpm range. If it stays cool and doesn’t overheat, things are looking in the right direction.
Click to expand...
No maintenance records. The story is he has only owned the boat one season (owned a similar boat with a cuddy previously, wanted open bow). Now he is selling because he is moving (for sale sign was in yard). He purchased from a dealer. Fresh water.
 
Get the survey and the sea trial. Without a sea trial how does one know if the engine gets to WOT, runs proper temperature, oil pressure, has leaks, etc. By asking the question you likely do not have the experience and knowledge to do it yourself and would be taking a big risk...

MM
 
dtfeld said:
Seriously. Be patient. The first boat i bought looked good, but soon after purchase I found some very expensive lessons like rotten wood that would easily been found in a survey and repaid a $1000 survey several times over.

There are a lot of expensive things that can and do go wrong even on a 24 ft boat. If you have the money to get expensive things fixed or are handy enough to fix fiberglass and or major engine issues, buy the boat without a survey. But. Being new to boating, pay for the inspection. If nothing else you will learn a lot about the boat you are buying
and have piece of mind that you made a good decision.

Search on here and you will find a lot of people who skipped a survey and wished they hadnt.
Click to expand...
+1
 
dammit...mostly answers I expected to hear. i have one last shot at a survey for next Friday, but it is the most expensive one...if he is even available. After that lining up schedules is going to be near impossible before the end of any boating season. We shall see....
 
I'm not a surveyor, but have bought without, and recently participated in three large boat surveys. Take this for what you will. Moisture meter is a low cost, do it yourself survey tool, as is a hammer sized plastic mallet for tapping hull, decking and most importantly (I think) the stringers. Feel for "softness" underfoot on all areas you will step. On a trailer now doesn't mean you didn't get saturation previously. Insist on a "cold start." Feel the manifolds so you know the engine hasn't been started. You should hear exactly what that sounds like (preferably with the cover open) and see how quickly the motor turns over. You can feel good about a smooth, quiet, quick start. As noted above, I would confirm RPMs at wide open throttle, and personally would not purchase the boat if the engine failed to make the specified high end RPM in the range for that engine (which you can determine on line for the specific make/model engine). If a 350 hour engine is below high RPM number (with the correct prop), then I believe something in the engine has deteriorated. You should turn on and operate every widget on the boat, any nav systems, gauges, gauge lights (with nav lights on), anchor lights, water systems, head/toilet systems, stereo, tv, outlets, lights, search lights, every switch, and so on. All of these can help shape your final offer, and save you headaches after the sale. Inspect the boat's condition, vinyl, gel coat finish, wear and tear, corrosion, rust, cracking, carpet and canvas coverings. There are "open checkbook" boats that are spanking clean and maintained, there's generally well cared for, and then there's neglected. The boat's condition says a lot about how the previous owners have cared for her. (You can see A LOT of this looking critically at on line pictures.) There are "do it yourself" survey guides on line too. If some can find a copy of a survey, that will show you what a surveyor looks for and reports on. These are just tips, not a fool proof guide. Good luck.
 
All that said, agree with the above comments that you won't regret a survey. You could go check out the boat, and if anything feels possibly off, then insist on a survey. But if you don't know what you're looking for, yes, the survey.
 
Only reason I would lean toward a survey (really on a boat that size it's more of an inspection) is that you said you have 0 experience. Concern would be if you know what your are looking for. I personally have never had a survey done on a boat - my smaller boats we just bought with basically a "test drive", my 290DA was new and I trusted the SeaRay dealer. Now, if I were buying a larger used boat 30ft + I would definitely get a survey. If I was buying the 240 Sundeck you are looking at I would pass on the seatrial. Is there anyone you can get to look at it with you?
But really, like mentioned above, all a surveyor is going to do on that boat is do a general inspection and ensure it runs ok on a seatrial.

If you can't find someone, I would:

1. Visually inspect the boat (out of the water). You can tell if there is damage or other problems like blisters on the hull. If it is smooth and shiny, it's probably ok. Faded and scuffed up, might want to look closer.
2. Look at the outdrive - shiny, no corrosion or pitting. If the drive looks old and pitted, it's probably a problem.
3. Ask about maintenance - does the owner have records of service?
Oil changes at least annually.
Gear lube changes at least annually.
Bellows replacement - being a trailer boat, might not need it yet. Mine lasted 15yrs.
Water pump impeller - every couple of years, or 300hrs or so. Probably due if not done recently.

If the above checks out it's probably ok - but realize it is a 15yr old boat, so things wear out, age out and just break. But the 240 Sundeck is a very popular SeaRay and a solid boat.

Good luck
 
It also depends on your risk tolerance. Personally I wouldn't survey a 24' freshwater boat, in fact I didn't. I did survey my first 30+ boat, but at that point the pricetag (and number of systems involved) was of a much larger magnitude, and greater risk.
 
BillK2632 said:
Only reason I would lean toward a survey (really on a boat that size it's more of an inspection) is that you said you have 0 experience. Concern would be if you know what your are looking for. I personally have never had a survey done on a boat - my smaller boats we just bought with basically a "test drive", my 290DA was new and I trusted the SeaRay dealer. Now, if I were buying a larger used boat 30ft + I would definitely get a survey. If I was buying the 240 Sundeck you are looking at I would pass on the seatrial. Is there anyone you can get to look at it with you?
But really, like mentioned above, all a surveyor is going to do on that boat is do a general inspection and ensure it runs ok on a seatrial.

If you can't find someone, I would:

1. Visually inspect the boat (out of the water). You can tell if there is damage or other problems like blisters on the hull. If it is smooth and shiny, it's probably ok. Faded and scuffed up, might want to look closer.
2. Look at the outdrive - shiny, no corrosion or pitting. If the drive looks old and pitted, it's probably a problem.
3. Ask about maintenance - does the owner have records of service?
Oil changes at least annually.
Gear lube changes at least annually.
Bellows replacement - being a trailer boat, might not need it yet. Mine lasted 15yrs.
Water pump impeller - every couple of years, or 300hrs or so. Probably due if not done recently.

If the above checks out it's probably ok - but realize it is a 15yr old boat, so things wear out, age out and just break. But the 240 Sundeck is a very popular SeaRay and a solid boat.

Good luck
Click to expand...
Here is a link to a few pics I took. Unfortunately he took down the craigslist ad (which had a lot more pics) assuming we are going to have a deal. I think the lower unit and engine looks really clean...doesn't tell the whole story of course, but this boat does look like it has been well taken care of

https://photos.app.goo.gl/JccHfKvPXZK2ezhA6
 
You'll have some seriously deep regrets if you discover $10k worth of problems on those few September boating days that you didn't get the survey done.
 
It does look clean but since you have limited experience if you can not get a surveyor perhaps you could find a good mechanic to look of the engine and the basic systems. Based on the year I would not expect any issues with the hull as it is probably not cored. Most mechanics have been around boats enough to give you pointers on the rest. While it's not a formal report from a surveyor it may cover you enough to keep you out of trouble. The other thing to keep in mind is that just because things are running now does not mean they will still be working in 1-month if you buy it. A mechanic will also give you a view into the upcoming maintenance needed.

-Kevin
 
Do you have any buddies that have spent a lot of time on boats that might be willing to go with you?

I've bought/sold two sub-25' boats without surveys. They generally aren't required on boats of this size for insurance/financing and there are dramatically fewer systems associated with them vs the bigger cabin cruisers. That's not a dig on surveys, just a couple thoughts for boats of this size.

If you could find an experienced friend to go along I'd probably lean toward sans-survey based on the pain you're experiencing. Especially in Ohio, summer is nearly over! But make sure you put some time on that boat, both in the water and out, before you seal the deal.

My adders to your checklist: Make sure the engine is cold when you get there, get a little time at WOT, bring a speedo on your phone to confirm top speed, check fluids before and after, open the engine room before and after the sea trail and check for leaks.

Ohh - be sure to grab a hold of that outdrive when the boat is on the trailer and see if you can move it. Outdrives/gimbel replacements are pricey....
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Forum statistics

Threads
113,118
Messages
1,426,468
Members
61,034
Latest member
Lukerney
Back
Top