Official Caterpillar3116/3126 Thread

And your Racor and engine mounted fuel coolers - keep spares on the boat too.

REALLY appreciate the information guys!

A couple of notes:

We had Cat Do a full Mechanical inspection on purchase:

Blowby:

Port Engine 474 cubic feet per hour, Starboard Engine 490 cubic feet per hour.

Oil Tests:

Starboard : pass
Port: Slightly elevated Iron 70PPM (they had just done some work on that engine) all else was good.

We did an oil change when we bought the boat, our mechanic put in a dual weight oil.

A few months later, after reading the service manual I had him change it again and used shell Rotella T1-30, I have read this is what people are using, thoughts on that?

We just had another oil test done and I'm waiting for the results.

At the beginning of season:

Filters & Lubricants: transmission, oil, racors, fuel filters
Impellers - Replaced

I get a little smoke on Start- up and then no smoke once its at operating temp - Ive never seen any smoke come out or soot under load.

Temps: sit around 195 under heavy load, I have been told this is normal operating range for these engines 420HP/MUI

I am keeping meticulous service records, oil sample tests every time we change the oil.

This is my plan for winter Layup to stay on-top of things:

-Pull aftercoolers, inspect, clean, paint and test at radiator shop replace soft coolant hoses and aftercooler gaskets
-Change all engine zincs, aftercooler zincs
-Coolant Flush and replace on both engines
-Airsep filter cleaning and re-oiling
-Transmission coolers, inspect
- Look into Valve adjustment and see if its been done - if no record of it being done we will probably have that done.

AM I MISSING ANYTHING???


One other thing:

-ENGINE PAINT:

The engines need to be painted, corrosion is minimal but it looks like painting hasn't been done in awhile and some surface rust is starting to develop (want to get ontop of that ASAP especially since we're now in the SALT bath)

When we have the aftercoolers off and the hoses are being replaced I will use that as an opportunity to paint as much as I can.

Is that a job that I can manage? Any Special notes there? Any paints you recommend?

One Last thing:

For diagnostics I only have, Oil Pressure, Engine Temp, Tach.

Should I add another data Point?

What would you add? EGT? Boost?

Any and all insight GREATLY appreciated!

NateVancouver said:

REALLY appreciate the information guys!

A couple of notes:

We had Cat Do a full Mechanical inspection on purchase:

Blowby:

Port Engine 474 cubic feet per hour, Starboard Engine 490 cubic feet per hour.

Oil Tests:

Starboard : pass
Port: Slightly elevated Iron 70PPM (they had just done some work on that engine) all else was good.

We did an oil change when we bought the boat, our mechanic put in a dual weight oil.

A few months later, after reading the service manual I had him change it again and used shell Rotella T1-30, I have read this is what people are using, thoughts on that?

We just had another oil test done and I'm waiting for the results.

At the beginning of season:

Filters & Lubricants: transmission, oil, racors, fuel filters
Impellers - Replaced

I get a little smoke on Start- up and then no smoke once its at operating temp - Ive never seen any smoke come out or soot under load.

Temps: sit around 195 under heavy load, I have been told this is normal operating range for these engines 420HP/MUI

I am keeping meticulous service records, oil sample tests every time we change the oil.

This is my plan for winter Layup to stay on-top of things:

-Pull aftercoolers, inspect, clean, paint and test at radiator shop replace soft coolant hoses and aftercooler gaskets
-Change all engine zincs, aftercooler zincs
-Coolant Flush and replace on both engines
-Airsep filter cleaning and re-oiling
-Transmission coolers, inspect
- Look into Valve adjustment and see if its been done - if no record of it being done we will probably have that done.

AM I MISSING ANYTHING???


One other thing:

-ENGINE PAINT:

The engines need to be painted, corrosion is minimal but it looks like painting hasn't been done in awhile and some surface rust is starting to develop (want to get ontop of that ASAP especially since we're now in the SALT bath)

When we have the aftercoolers off and the hoses are being replaced I will use that as an opportunity to paint as much as I can.

Is that a job that I can manage? Any Special notes there? Any paints you recommend?

One Last thing:

For diagnostics I only have, Oil Pressure, Engine Temp, Tach.

Should I add another data Point?

What would you add? EGT? Boost?

Any and all insight GREATLY appreciated!

Click to expand...

what boat model are these in?

it’s great you had the blow-by test done, that’s really important. Rule of thumb is 2x your horsepower rating or less so you’re well within spec.

your maintenance plan looks solid to me. Regarding the oil, he probably followed cats latest guidance the first time because they recently discontinued their SAEO 3116/3126 straight weight 30/40 and published a bulletin that DEO is now recommended. For the time being, I am switching to T1 since folks have run that for years with no issue. I may switch the DEO if T1 also goes away but there’s no indication of that happening.

a little smoke on startup is usually normal. Is it just light gray smoke? That’s probably just a hint of unburned fuel as the cylinders come up to temp. Depending on where your boat was originally sold you might have air intake heaters. There are wires going to the intake plenum that make it obvious, or you’ll see them when you remove the AC. To use them properly you’re supposed to put the key to run but do not crank (you can mute the SR monitor by pressing the button once so it’s stops beeping) and wait 10-15 seconds. You’ll see the voltage gauge drop below 12v meaning the grid is heating up. Once it heats enough it turns off and voltage shoots back up, you then start the engine. From there the AIH will cycle until the coolant temp reaches a certain number, I think it’s 100*. That can help with startup smoke on cooler mornings.

I use the cat rattle can paint that apparently is made of gold considering what the price is, but I didn’t need much. Others have had good luck mixing up automotive 2 part paints - Frank has the paint codes in this thread somewhere, I think at the beginning.

I added ISSpro Turbocator gauges which are combination EGT/Boost. I couldn’t live without them now, it helped me identify issues with our turbos and now I know exactly where they should run. I see about 650-700* EGT across the board (previously 900-950 at cruise) so in my mind they saved our engines. There are many options, including electronic, if you have N2K MFD’s

another gauge to put on your list is the Aetna digital tach. They are not inexpensive but replace the god awful SR tach with accurate digital readout. Combined with the egt/boost in now confident where the engines are running

You can see both in these pics. The turbocators (what a name) are in the lower dash to either side of the switches

NateVancouver said:

REALLY appreciate the information guys!

A couple of notes:

We had Cat Do a full Mechanical inspection on purchase:

Blowby:

Port Engine 474 cubic feet per hour, Starboard Engine 490 cubic feet per hour.

Oil Tests:

Starboard : pass
Port: Slightly elevated Iron 70PPM (they had just done some work on that engine) all else was good.

We did an oil change when we bought the boat, our mechanic put in a dual weight oil.

A few months later, after reading the service manual I had him change it again and used shell Rotella T1-30, I have read this is what people are using, thoughts on that?

We just had another oil test done and I'm waiting for the results.

At the beginning of season:

Filters & Lubricants: transmission, oil, racors, fuel filters
Impellers - Replaced

I get a little smoke on Start- up and then no smoke once its at operating temp - Ive never seen any smoke come out or soot under load.

Temps: sit around 195 under heavy load, I have been told this is normal operating range for these engines 420HP/MUI

I am keeping meticulous service records, oil sample tests every time we change the oil.

This is my plan for winter Layup to stay on-top of things:

-Pull aftercoolers, inspect, clean, paint and test at radiator shop replace soft coolant hoses and aftercooler gaskets
-Change all engine zincs, aftercooler zincs
-Coolant Flush and replace on both engines
-Airsep filter cleaning and re-oiling
-Transmission coolers, inspect
- Look into Valve adjustment and see if its been done - if no record of it being done we will probably have that done.

AM I MISSING ANYTHING???


One other thing:

-ENGINE PAINT:

The engines need to be painted, corrosion is minimal but it looks like painting hasn't been done in awhile and some surface rust is starting to develop (want to get ontop of that ASAP especially since we're now in the SALT bath)

When we have the aftercoolers off and the hoses are being replaced I will use that as an opportunity to paint as much as I can.

Is that a job that I can manage? Any Special notes there? Any paints you recommend?

One Last thing:

For diagnostics I only have, Oil Pressure, Engine Temp, Tach.

Should I add another data Point?

What would you add? EGT? Boost?

Any and all insight GREATLY appreciated!

Click to expand...

There are no "engine" zincs. Zincs are in the raw water system.

"We just had another oil test done and I'm waiting for the results." How many hours did you put on the new oil? If not may the test will not be valid.

"Is that a job that I can manage?" I don't know you "turn wrenches" skills enough to answer. Some on here will tell you "Only let a CAT tech do this or that", which is good advice. I have done everything on my own to date (because I had to), with help from this site, YouTube, and a caterpillar mechanic in the family. I have found every job doable for me.

One of the really neat things about Caterpillar is that they don't forget the owners of engines that are getting older. Cat continues to monitor older engines and the change fluid recommendations as needed.The current Fluid Recommendations are covered in this Cat Publication:

SEBU6250-31
dated: February,2022

Some of us got access to an internal memo called an "IRM" that contained some background on some of the changes Cat implemented in SEBU6250-31.

The current recommendation is to use DEO-ULS Cat oils in all engines except 3600 series engines. DEO-ULS is a multiviscosity oil and seems to contradict earlier recommendations for uing single viscosity oils in 3116 & 3126 series marine engines. I have used Rotella T1 SAE 40 for 25 years in my 3116 and the oil samples have always about what they did when the engines were new. However, last year Single viscosity T1- SAE 30/SAE40 Rotella became scarce due to "Additive supply chain problems". Cats position is that we should be using API lube oil rated CF-4 in 3116/3126 engines. However, single viscosity Rotella, if you can find it, is only rated CF, CF-2:

https://www.shell-livedocs.com/data/published/en-US/608098c6-be43-4175-9ae6-8114485a326b.pdf



Caterpillar has now implemented a new oil that is better suited for engines running ULSD fuels, which is mostly what marinas have these days. The new oil is "DEO-ULS". and it is multi-viscosity oil rated CJ-4 which is backward compatible all the way to CF-4

Cat DEO-ULS is the highest quality diesel engine oil for Caterpillar on- and off-highway engines equipped with aftertreatment systems (On-Highway 2007/2010 and Off-Highway Tier 4, Stage IIIB/IV, Step 4), as well as, diesel engines without aftertreatment and automotive gasoline engines. Cat DEO-ULS exceeds the performance requirements of Caterpillar ECF-3 (Engine Crankcase Fluid Specification) and the API CJ-4 and API SM categories.

Cat DEO-ULS is formulated with precise amounts of sulfated ash, phosphorous, and sulfur to maintain the life of aftertreatment system components while providing superior engine protection. In extensive testing, Cat DEO-ULS had an oil consumption rate more than three times better than ECF-3 standards. Cat DEO-ULS was also demonstrated to deliver excellent valve train protection and to minimize the formation of piston deposits.

API Diesel Groups

• CJ-4, CI-4 PLUS/CI-4,CH-4, CG-4, CF-4/CF

Your signature reads "454 Mercruiser"

fwebster said:

One of the really neat things about Caterpillar is that they don't forget the owners of engines that are getting older. Cat continues to monitor older engines and the change fluid recommendations as needed.The current Fluid Recommendations are covered in this Cat Publication:

SEBU6250-31
dated: February,2022

Some of us got access to an internal memo called an "IRM" that contained some background on some of the changes Cat implemented in SEBU6250-31.

The current recommendation is to use DEO-ULS Cat oils in all engines except 3600 series engines. DEO-ULS is a multiviscosity oil and seems to contradict earlier recommendations for uing single viscosity oils in 3116 & 3126 series marine engines. I have used Rotella T1 SAE 40 for 25 years in my 3116 and the oil samples have always about what they did when the engines were new. However, last year Single viscosity T1- SAE 30/SAE40 Rotella became scarce due to "Additive supply chain problems". Cats position is that we should be using API lube oil rated CF-4 in 3116/3126 engines. However, single viscosity Rotella, if you can find it, is only rated CF, CF-2:

https://www.shell-livedocs.com/data/published/en-US/608098c6-be43-4175-9ae6-8114485a326b.pdf



Caterpillar has now implemented a new oil that is better suited for engines running ULSD fuels, which is mostly what marinas have these days. The new oil is "DEO-ULS". and it is multi-viscosity oil rated CJ-4 which is backward compatible all the way to CF-4

Cat DEO-ULS is the highest quality diesel engine oil for Caterpillar on- and off-highway engines equipped with aftertreatment systems (On-Highway 2007/2010 and Off-Highway Tier 4, Stage IIIB/IV, Step 4), as well as, diesel engines without aftertreatment and automotive gasoline engines. Cat DEO-ULS exceeds the performance requirements of Caterpillar ECF-3 (Engine Crankcase Fluid Specification) and the API CJ-4 and API SM categories.

Cat DEO-ULS is formulated with precise amounts of sulfated ash, phosphorous, and sulfur to maintain the life of aftertreatment system components while providing superior engine protection. In extensive testing, Cat DEO-ULS had an oil consumption rate more than three times better than ECF-3 standards. Cat DEO-ULS was also demonstrated to deliver excellent valve train protection and to minimize the formation of piston deposits.

API Diesel Groups

• CJ-4, CI-4 PLUS/CI-4,CH-4, CG-4, CF-4/CF

Click to expand...

Frank, not knowing what's in my boat now, is there a preferred way to "introduce" new oil? Maybe a 50/50 blend of the new oil you reference above with SAE 40?

I remember when I switched my "new to me" SUV 7 years ago, with 55k miles on it, to synthetic oil. I thought about doing a blend for a while but I went straight to the synthetic, with no known issues, yet.

SAE 40 is the incorrect API rating, going to DEO-ULS Cat oil fixes that, it is the recommended oil fore your engines now. I checked the DEO price several weeks ago in Nashville and it was a god bit cheper than Rotella T-1 SAE 40. I wouldn't over think this……I would change to DEO-ULS 15 w40 at my next oil change.

But here is something I would do, and have always done it with every oil change: ……Cat engines hold a lot of oil and it always bothered me to leave several quarts of oil dirty oil in the crankcase when changing oil. I made it a practice to drain all the oil, let the engines sit for about 15 minutes, then add 1-2 quarts of new oil then drain the crankcase dry again in order to remove any oil dirty oil that may drain down the cylinder walls or engine block into the oil pan. Then finally, re-fill the crankcase with the correct amount of oil. I was called anal regularly in the marina when others saw me doing this, but I also had the reputation of having the best maintained boat in the marina and the record of having nearly perfect oil samples every year for 25 years. These engines were mine and it was cheaper to waste a few quarts of oil every year than to rebuild a Cat engine.

Frank

fwebster said:

These engines were mine and it was cheaper to waste a few quarts of oil every year than to rebuild a Cat engine.

Frank

Click to expand...

But rebuilding CAT engines is fun!!



Actually, couldn't agree with you more. Oil is the lifeblood of the engine. Take care of it and it will take care of you.
Since the prior owner obviously skimped on maintenance, I'm baselining everything. Next week the port motor comes out.

Among other things on my 26 year old 450 DA, I've been really diligent on getting them to baseline.

Did all the work myself, except for the salt water cooled aftercoolers, which were serviced by MILEY CAT in Ft Myers, FL in June.

A couple of weeks ago on my wat to an overnight on the hook, I experienced a tremendous loss of power on the port engine.

did my own checking of the usual suspects, changed fuel tanks, removed fuel caps, changed out Raycors & CAT fuel filters, checked for air leaks, did EVERYTHING.

Called MILEY CAT in Ft Myers and we went over everything. Sounded like it could be a cracked injector cup, or a failed turbo.

MILEY CAT came to the house.

Tech brought a reamer as we were expecting to have to go in that direction. I figured, we may as well do all 6 instead of just the one that may have failed.

Here's a cut and paste of the invoice:

Owner reported low rpm on port engine. Vessel was located at xxxxxxxxxxxxx. Clear line was installed to fuel return to check for air bubbles. No bubbles were present. The air filter and exhaust hose were removed, and the turbo exhaust wheel was inspected with borescope - all good. A vacuum gauge was installed on the racor, and boost pressure gauges were installed to both port and starboard engines for comparison purposes. Vessel was taken to open water with owner at helm. At 1800 rpms, the port engine boost pressure was 5 lbs, while the starboard boost pressure was 10 lbs. Air was felt coming from the boost hose from the turbo inlet to the aftercooler, and the hose and hose clamp were found out of position, allowing a boost leak. The hose and clamp were repositioned and secured on the turbo housing. Low rpm issue was resolved. While onboard, it was noted that the port engine fuel hand priming pump was leaking. A new pump and valve assembly was installed, and at owner's request, a second pump would be ordered. One secondary fuel filter was left onboard at owner's request. (No charge for labor, travel time, or mileage)


the back side of the top clamp holding the hose between the turbo and aftercooler had slipped up. Clamp/hose not properly tightened by Cat tech in June.

MILEY CAT CHARGED ME ONLY FOR THE PRIMER PUMP (and I ordered another for the stbd side as well)

ZERO TRIP CHARGE
ZERO LABOR CHARGE

I CAN'T SAY ENOUGH GOOD THINGS ABOUT MILEY CAT IN FT MYERS, FL !

Best,

RWS

Maybe A Dancer said:

Among other things on my 26 year old 450 DA, I've been really diligent on getting them to baseline.

Did all the work myself, except for the salt water cooled aftercoolers, which were serviced by MILEY CAT in Ft Myers, FL in June.

A couple of weeks ago on my wat to an overnight on the hook, I experienced a tremendous loss of power on the port engine.

did my own checking of the usual suspects, changed fuel tanks, removed fuel caps, changed out Raycors & CAT fuel filters, checked for air leaks, did EVERYTHING.

Called MILEY CAT in Ft Myers and we went over everything. Sounded like it could be a cracked injector cup, or a failed turbo.

MILEY CAT came to the house.

Tech brought a reamer as we were expecting to have to go in that direction. I figured, we may as well do all 6 instead of just the one that may have failed.

Here's a cut and paste of the invoice:

Owner reported low rpm on port engine. Vessel was located at xxxxxxxxxxxxx. Clear line was installed to fuel return to check for air bubbles. No bubbles were present. The air filter and exhaust hose were removed, and the turbo exhaust wheel was inspected with borescope - all good. A vacuum gauge was installed on the racor, and boost pressure gauges were installed to both port and starboard engines for comparison purposes. Vessel was taken to open water with owner at helm. At 1800 rpms, the port engine boost pressure was 5 lbs, while the starboard boost pressure was 10 lbs. Air was felt coming from the boost hose from the turbo inlet to the aftercooler, and the hose and hose clamp were found out of position, allowing a boost leak. The hose and clamp were repositioned and secured on the turbo housing. Low rpm issue was resolved. While onboard, it was noted that the port engine fuel hand priming pump was leaking. A new pump and valve assembly was installed, and at owner's request, a second pump would be ordered. One secondary fuel filter was left onboard at owner's request. (No charge for labor, travel time, or mileage)


the back side of the top clamp holding the hose between the turbo and aftercooler had slipped up. Clamp/hose not properly tightened by Cat tech in June.

MILEY CAT CHARGED ME ONLY FOR THE PRIMER PUMP (and I ordered another for the stbd side as well)

ZERO TRIP CHARGE
ZERO LABOR CHARGE

I CAN'T SAY ENOUGH GOOD THINGS ABOUT MILEY CAT IN FT MYERS, FL !

Best,

RWS

Click to expand...

reinforces my belief that all of these boats should have boost and EGT gauges on the dash. Nice to hear it was an easy fix

Wow, THAT is great service. Good information to know as well. I just wish I could get a diesel tech to show up, yet alone bill me/not bill me.

Strecker25 said:

reinforces my belief that all of these boats should have boost and EGT gauges on the dash. Nice to hear it was an easy fix

Click to expand...

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

BOOST and PYROMETERS have been on my list since I bought the boat.

Just haven't gotten there yet.

Ran class 8 MACK tractor trailers and other equipment in the 1980's and learned the value of these as well as intake restriction gauges.

Will also add water temp & oil pressure gauges at the helm for the genset.

BEST !

RWS

Have a diesel fuel tank question for the 380DA.
As an aside, now I have both 3116's out of the boat, seems like an opportune time to check the diesel fuel tanks.
Apart from pressure testing (if I remember correctly it's about 2psi needed), are there any other tips or input?
The port and starboard aluminum tanks are over 20 years old. I doubt they've ever been cleaned or tested.

I’d at least get the tanks inspected. If you have any issues, now is the time to sort it out.

Hello all,

I've got a '97 Express Cruiser with 3116s and I'm having fuel flow issues on the port engine. Long story short, I've swapped around the racors from the starboard and generator to the port, and the problem persists. I've taken the fuel hose from the engine side of the racor directly into a fuel jug and it runs without issue, and also bypassed the racor to feed all the way back through to the tank where it again runs without issue.

I've tested the vacuum gauges and they all check out ok and I've emptied the racor, attached a vacuum pump and pulled fuel from the tank into the racor (with pressure registering on the gauge).

Could this be an issue of the fuel pump/pick-up pump not having enough strength to suck the fuel through the resistance that the racor provides?

Thx,
DA

nattydread said:

Hello all,

I've got a '97 Express Cruiser with 3116s and I'm having fuel flow issues on the port engine. Long story short, I've swapped around the racors from the starboard and generator to the port, and the problem persists. I've taken the fuel hose from the engine side of the racor directly into a fuel jug and it runs without issue, and also bypassed the racor to feed all the way back through to the tank where it again runs without issue.

I've tested the vacuum gauges and they all check out ok and I've emptied the racor, attached a vacuum pump and pulled fuel from the tank into the racor (with pressure registering on the gauge).

Could this be an issue of the fuel pump/pick-up pump not having enough strength to suck the fuel through the resistance that the racor provides?

Thx,
DA

Click to expand...

can you flip the selectors to pull that engine from the other tank? That could expose the problem further

also check the atmosphere vent for obstruction. I’ve heard others with starvation issues open the fuel cap while experiencing the problem and if it goes away it points to a vent restriction.

a clear tube in the line might show air bubbles - indicating a hose/connection issue.

I've heard these hand primer pumps can also be culprits, especially as they get older (25 years)

BEST !

RWS

wh

Strecker25 said:

Hard to believe but I’m already buying end of season stuff in western NY. Last year AF and oil were hard to come by so I stocked up

View attachment 132260

Click to expand...

Good score
where are you getting it??

I have swapped around the primer pump and the issue still persists, unfortunately.

I'll have a check on the vent as I've flipped over the selectors and the issue remains. It runs without the racor so I don't know how it could be the vent or the pump. Running out of ideas...and sanity