First time buyer, 2001 SeaRay Sundancer 270 - surveyor recommendation

[ladzio]

Hello SeaRay owners! We hope to buy our first boat soon. We found a 2001 SeaRay Sundancer 270 for sale in Westchester, NY. 316 hours on MerCruiser 7.4L MPI III. We like the boat layout. We plan to use it on Long Island Sound for a few years before trading up to something newer and maybe bigger (once the budget allows). In the meantime, this boat looks just right for us as first-time owners to be. It does need some cosmetic repairs but we are happy to put in the time ourselves.

Next step is to do a survey. Our sales agent sent us 4 surveyors to pick from (Jim Dias; Capt. Chris Nebel; Capt. Ray Clifford; John Lowe). Anyone has experience with these gentlemen, do they do a thorough engine inspection too? Anyone can recommend in Westchester a surveyor who does boat and engine survey?

Second question, we plan to have friends on the boat occasionally, possibly up to 9 people. Any issue with this engine getting the boat on plane with these many folks on board? Should we actually load it up with people for the sea trial or no need? Our sales agent says this engine has plenty of power to get on plane once loaded up, although with this many folks 270 will get crowded. But that's allright.

Appreciate all the advice you can share. Thank you.

 

[bfernald0]

That's not a lot of hours, which is not a good thing. Get a full engine survey. Find out when the manifolds and risers have last been replaced. Should be within the last five years. Planing out nine adults on a 270 is going to be tough, but if a couple folks walk forward in the cabin you might do it.

 

[Stee6043]

Welcome! Definitely have a Merc mechanic take a look at that engine. That thing has been doing a lot of sitting! They should be looking at oil and compression at a minimum. Others around here will have more advice for sure.

I don't think you'll find 9 passengers to be particularly comfortable for any length of time. If you really need/want to regularly have that many people onboard I would suggest you look for an open bow boat, not a Sundancer.

 

[Golfman25]

I’ll add unless you can confirm the worthiness of the surveyors provided by the broker, find one thru a recommendation from a boat owner. Also, most surveyors only do the boat not the engine.

 

[Tripsdad]

I agree with @Golfman25 on finding a surveyor on your own rather than through the broker but I have used John Lowe and he has an good reputation and following on Long Island. Good luck.

 

[Steve S]

You find surveyors links here:https://abycinc.org/mpage/surveyorimportance

Make sure they are NAMS or SAMS credentialed.

 

[b_arrington]

My inlaws have a 1998 270 Sundancer operating on the Long Island Sound. Most often in the protected Port Jefferson waters. It's basically the same boat with the same motor setup. I help maintain it so am familiar with it's operation and performance.

Having a few friends over will be OK. As in 2-4 (total of 6). Having 9 people aboard will be very crowded and uncomfortable. Look at the cockpit - you can fit 2 (maybe 3) on the rear bench, one on the rear-facing seat, 2 on the lounger, and 2 at the helm. That's 7 max with no personal space. It might be better if folks are getting the water. The salon below has sitting room for a few down below, but that's not fun for long.

As for getting on plane with 9 people and a single engine on that boat, that's going to be tough. I think the sales agent is being vastly optimistic. 6? Sure. 9? Its very iffy. Especially if you have a full fuel and water load, plus drinks, etc. As suggested, you might pull it off if some passengers head below to sit at the dinette or bow seats.

That boat already is a bit stern-heavy. The helm is after of center and you're going to put a bunch of weight back there? Not good for performance. Even with just my mother inlaw on the rear seat and my FIL on the lounger the boot stripe is dipping into the water. Add a bunch of people and it's worse.

Look, I'm not trying to scare you but I've seen the performance of a like-model boat first hand and want you to understand the realities. The sales is guy is likely going to paint a rosier picture.

As far as engine stuff, do try to find someone that can evaluate the engine and not just the hull. As stated, 316 hours over 22 years is not a lot and a bit of a red flag. It's only 14 hours per year on average. Mechanical equipment does better when it's regularly run, so keep that in mind.

Here are some things to consider on the engine:

• Is the cooling raw water, or fresh (heat exchanger)? Raw water cooling, while more common then, increases corrosion.
• When were the risers and manifolds changed. More important with raw water cooling.
• Do a compression test, confirm good compression on all cylinders.
• Pull an oil sample and have it sent to Blackstone Labs to check it.
• Check the outdrive for steering slop.
• Has the outdrive steering pin ever been replaced? If so, when? This is a notorious issue with the Bravo 3 drive of any age. The original design uses mild steel and it corrodes, chewing up the seals and letting water into the transom. Repair requires pulling the engine to replace the pin. 100% of this era Bravo 3 drives will need to have the pin replaced, especially in salt water.
• Check the transom housing for leaks. Has the housing ever been replaced? This commonly needs to be done if the steering pin leaked, as the water drips onto the aluminum transom housing. Again, this is an engine-out repair. Cost = about $10k.
• If evidence of leaks, try to get a pic of the underside of the oil pan. Salt water from a leak will splash on the oil pan and corrode it.
• Has the engine coupling been replaced? This is a metal and rubber part that mates the engine output (at the back of the engine) to the outdrive shaft. It will become dried out and eventually fail, with the rubber separating from the metal part and just spin. Telltale signs of a failing coupling are bits of black rubber dust in the engine space. They can fail with little to no warning. The part is not expensive, but is a engine-out repair. If you don't have evidence of replacement assume it is needed on at 22 year old boat.
• Outdrive. Records of regular maintenance, gear oil changes? Any records showing the gimble ring has been repaired or replaced? They can fail from sea water leaking past seals on the outdrive. On a sea trial the surveyor should be listening for any groaning.
• Check for corrosion on the outdrive and the condition of the zincs. Bravo 3 drives of this vintage had some galvanic corrosion issues because of the aluminum drive and big stainless props, and need to have the zincs maintained. Look for evidence of pitting, worn metal, bubbling paint on the outdrive. I don't recall exactly what year Mercruiser improved the B3 corrosion issues. My inlaw's boat consumes zincs like crazy so we watch it carefully.

Again, I'm not at all trying to scare you or warn you off, but point out areas to look at and be aware of. Most of the things above I've had to address on my inlaw's boat.

 

[boatrboy]

Omg Brad - everything that went through my head you typed.

Ladzio - I had a 1999 but as Brad stated, it is basically the same. I think the newer ones had two latches on the transom locker.
I loved this boat - had it for about 19 years.
I will confirm that 9 people is too many for a comfortable day. I stop inviting at 7 total. The 7.4 has plenty of power for the 7 with a bravo 3.

Brads list is almost everything I did over the years so make sure you review it well.

Good luck with it!

 

[keokie]

My inlaws have a 1998 270 Sundancer operating on the Long Island Sound. Most often in the protected Port Jefferson waters. It's basically the same boat with the same motor setup. I help maintain it so am familiar with it's operation and performance.

Having a few friends over will be OK. As in 2-4 (total of 6). Having 9 people aboard will be very crowded and uncomfortable. Look at the cockpit - you can fit 2 (maybe 3) on the rear bench, one on the rear-facing seat, 2 on the lounger, and 2 at the helm. That's 7 max with no personal space. It might be better if folks are getting the water. The salon below has sitting room for a few down below, but that's not fun for long.

As for getting on plane with 9 people and a single engine on that boat, that's going to be tough. I think the sales agent is being vastly optimistic. 6? Sure. 9? Its very iffy. Especially if you have a full fuel and water load, plus drinks, etc. As suggested, you might pull it off if some passengers head below to sit at the dinette or bow seats.

That boat already is a bit stern-heavy. The helm is after of center and you're going to put a bunch of weight back there? Not good for performance. Even with just my mother inlaw on the rear seat and my FIL on the lounger the boot stripe is dipping into the water. Add a bunch of people and it's worse.

Look, I'm not trying to scare you but I've seen the performance of a like-model boat first hand and want you to understand the realities. The sales is guy is likely going to paint a rosier picture.

As far as engine stuff, do try to find someone that can evaluate the engine and not just the hull. As stated, 316 hours over 22 years is not a lot and a bit of a red flag. It's only 14 hours per year on average. Mechanical equipment does better when it's regularly run, so keep that in mind.

Here are some things to consider on the engine:

• Is the cooling raw water, or fresh (heat exchanger)? Raw water cooling, while more common then, increases corrosion.
• When were the risers and manifolds changed. More important with raw water cooling.
• Do a compression test, confirm good compression on all cylinders.
• Pull an oil sample and have it sent to Blackstone Labs to check it.
• Check the outdrive for steering slop.
• Has the outdrive steering pin ever been replaced? If so, when? This is a notorious issue with the Bravo 3 drive of any age. The original design uses mild steel and it corrodes, chewing up the seals and letting water into the transom. Repair requires pulling the engine to replace the pin. 100% of this era Bravo 3 drives will need to have the pin replaced, especially in salt water.
• Check the transom housing for leaks. Has the housing ever been replaced? This commonly needs to be done if the steering pin leaked, as the water drips onto the aluminum transom housing. Again, this is an engine-out repair. Cost = about $10k.
• If evidence of leaks, try to get a pic of the underside of the oil pan. Salt water from a leak will splash on the oil pan and corrode it.
• Has the engine coupling been replaced? This is a metal and rubber part that mates the engine output (at the back of the engine) to the outdrive shaft. It will become dried out and eventually fail, with the rubber separating from the metal part and just spin. Telltale signs of a failing coupling are bits of black rubber dust in the engine space. They can fail with little to no warning. The part is not expensive, but is a engine-out repair. If you don't have evidence of replacement assume it is needed on at 22 year old boat.
• Outdrive. Records of regular maintenance, gear oil changes? Any records showing the gimble ring has been repaired or replaced? They can fail from sea water leaking past seals on the outdrive. On a sea trial the surveyor should be listening for any groaning.
• Check for corrosion on the outdrive and the condition of the zincs. Bravo 3 drives of this vintage had some galvanic corrosion issues because of the aluminum drive and big stainless props, and need to have the zincs maintained. Look for evidence of pitting, worn metal, bubbling paint on the outdrive. I don't recall exactly what year Mercruiser improved the B3 corrosion issues. My inlaw's boat consumes zincs like crazy so we watch it carefully.

Again, I'm not at all trying to scare you or warn you off, but point out areas to look at and be aware of. Most of the things above I've had to address on my inlaw's boat.

This is an excellent list. I would recommend following it closely. That will take a lot of due diligence, but all of those items are very susceptible on a boat that age and expensive/involved.

I would add check around all cored hull penetrations for moisture intrusion/rot. This includes transom, bilge, and deck. Problems here could make the mechanicals look like nothing. Buying an older boat like this can be a tremendous value, but it is a serious undertaking that is not for the feint of heart.