Kohler 5ECD Not Running EC62, UU, UF

[pyro]

I purchased a boat with known bad generator Kohler 5ECD generator. These are the fuel injected generators and many people seem to have similar issues to what I am facing. Hoping to share some of what I learned.

Problem description is the generator would not start intermittently. Some days it would start but would die shortly after. It would throw errors EC62, UU and UF. This year after dewinterization the engine barely runs.

We determined the issue is likely fuel related. The fuel injector was replaced 2 years ago on this unit and has less than 4 hours of runtime since that service. We removed injector, tested, and discovered the injector valve was sticking. Sometimes tapping on it would release it, other times you had to wait. We are going to send it off to get cleaned. Kohler part number for this GM62619 and is somewhere around $130. The injector is actually a Siemens Deka injector with part number 39-032. Also labeled on the unit is 8032F06572 and 07/315 15. There is no information on the internet for this injector. I called a local injector cleaning company, they barely wanted to talk. I emailed another place online, no response. I emailed InjectorRx and to my surprise the owner called me and went out of his way to look up the specs for this injector. I am sending the injector to InjectorRx. I think I have found an equivalent Bosch injector but waiting for confirmation from the guy at InjectorRX for confirmation. I can't say enough about how helpful this guy was - send your injectors to InjectorRx!

Plugging up an injector so quickly points to something else wrong. Generator is out of the boat and operating from an external fuel tank. We would prime the fuel system and noticed the first bit of return fuel from the schrader valve near fuel injector was initially a noticably darker color. After a few seconds it would clear up as it fresh gas from the tank made it through the entire system. This has been repeatable for 3 times letting it sit for more than 3 days. The discoloration is coming from either the high pressure water cooled pump, pick up pump or the fuel line.


The fuel on the right is the first fuel out of the pump after being in there for about 4 days. The fuel on the left is the new gas from the external tank and collected AFTER the stuff on the right. It does not seperate after leaving it overnight. I'm not sure why its discolored, but I suspect its clogging the injector, and I suspect I'm not the only one with this issue.

Next we are going to measure the fuel pressure from the high pressure fuel pump - although no one knows what it's supposed to be. Then attempt to check if fuel discoloration is from high pressure or low pressure pump. We may try a close loop flush of Seafoam or other cleaner to see if the internals can be cleaned up. Or we may attempt to open the top up to inspect insides. Not sure if this is servicable so expecting to replace at that point. I suspect the high pressure fuel pump is a standard off the shelf fuel pump with a custom Kohler assembly to water cool the pump. This thing is very expensive ~$550, but no alternatives found so far.

If I replace the high pressure pump I will probably replace the low pressure pump to guarantee an entire new fuel system. I was able to find a cheaper source for the low pressure pickup pump. The Kohler part number is 278490 and runs about $110. It is a Facet Pump part number 40178 that creates 2-3.5 psi. You can find this for about $60, only difference is you will have to splice the connector onto the new Facet Pump. The part number is actually stamped on the bottom as documented here:
https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/document.asp?DocID=TECH00023
Cross reference: http://www.facet-purolator.com/wp-content/uploads/pdfs/2018 Industrial catalog.pdf

Will post updates.

 

[Lkbum]

I have a Kohler Model 5 ECD-BBG. Seems you are on the right track. Adding to this thread for others.
Mine would start then stall, restart then stall, restart then run with bad smell of un-burned fuel.
Two cylinder engine, one side was not firing. Swapped plugs, side to side, same side not firing.
Swapped plug wires, side to side, same side not firing. Swapped ignition coils and found the problem.

 

[pyro]

Here's an update. The high pressure fuel pump measured 40-45 psi which is probably normal. Fuel injector was sent out for cleaning and initial condition was better than I expected. So I took the fuel pumps out. Opened the high pressure pump knowing very well it probably wasn't going back together given the outside corrosion, and found this:

Looking good, right? A few discoveries to share:

The water jacket is half blocked with salt buildup. This restriction may have been helping to cause the low water pressure EC62 error. I didn't consider it could be blocked here since the hoses were all clean. If someone suspects something similiar, it is easy to take off both the inlet and outlet hose and stick a screwdriver in there to clear out any blockages. I previously flushed the heat exchanger with barnacle buster, but should have also included the fuel pump in the loop (although you generally want to alternate direction of flow).

This fuel module unit is both a in-line fuel pump, but also has a separate regulator assembly shown on the left. I am still not clear if this cavity around the pump is suppose to be filled with fuel. In that case the shrader valve is supposed to have 1-2 psi fuel pressure from the pickup pump. I suspect it is supposed to (why put a shrader valve there?), but there has been multiple reports of no fuel at this valve. I imagine those reports may also be starting to fail. We so far can not remove either the regulator or fuel pump. When I get the new one, I will test it.

It appears raw water leaked past the gasket into the regulator. You can see the corrosion around the regulator housing. There is also significant salt buildup in the cavity the high pressure pump sits in, although the gasket actually looks intact in this area. Unclear how it got there.

Kohler superseded this part with a new part number. I'm curious what the changes are.

Will have new high pressure and pickup pump next week.

 

[OzRob]

pyro,

I'm having exactly the same issues with the 4EFCD in my 355 Sundancer.
(To clarify here a little - the boat is the export version of the 320DA and the genset is the 240Volt version of the 5EFCD)

My guy has checked out the electrics and all is good - plenty of spark at the plugs and power to all the places it's supposed to be, so we've traced it to a fuel problem. After bleeding the air nozzle on the injector body then keeping the button pushed for a few seconds to ensure a full prime of fuel it starts and spins up to full speed then after a second or two it slows dramatically until it's barely chugging along, before being stopped by the UU senser.

We've also noted the dark fuel colour when the first few spurts come out of the bleed nozzle, before clearing up as more fuel flows through. We were thinking maybe a failing fuel filter releasing a build up of crud?

Removing the injector reinforced that belief as it was choked with a sizable lump of what looked like mud - about 3mm in diameter. I was convinced we'd found the problem but after cleaning and re-installing it the problem still persisted.
Removing the injector again showed that it was still clean, so we're back to square one.

The genset is still in the boat and I've been quoted mega $$'s and much stuffing about to remove it so I'm hopeful of solving the issue with it insitu, although access to it is a nightmare.
Which brings me to my next question - how does the fuel cooler/pump come out?
I can see two bolts on rubber mountings at the bottom but where are the other bolts and are they reasonably accessible?

Please keep posting your progress, preferably with lots of photos, as the problems you're reporting seem to be very common and yours is the first posting I've seen by someone who's actually "been there done that", rather than just guessing at possible solutions, as some do.

Rob

 

[pyro]

Here is more pictures of the pump taken apart. But first I think its best to understand the fuel flow.

There is a black seal that fits around the top & bottom of the fuel pump. Theoretically this should seal fuel from the inlet and outlet of the pump and the cavity that the pump sites in should be dry. This is the same cavity that the shrader valve sits in. I have no idea why they would install a shrader valve here. Interestingly on the new pump, the shrader valve is not installed, instead it plugged with a bolt.

We removed the fuel regulator with some force. The underneath was completely rusted, and the housing cavity had brown junk all over it, some nasty combination of rust & old fuel. I believe this is the mud you see in the fuel injector.

This is all caused from salt leaking past the gasket at top and into the bottom of the regulator which is steel and rusts all over the place. All that dust shown came out of the housing on the left.

Next is the fuel pump. We were unable to remove it, so we had to cut off the bottom of the housing to realize how it was installed. The pump is basically just pushed down into a large rubber grommet around the outside of the pump. It should just rock back and forth and pull out. However this one had a nice powder coating of dried salt! The gray is the original color of the pump. The white is salt. It's still not clear how this much salt got into this area. It likely leaked past the gasket.

The pump is a Walbro F50000112. Can be found for about $130. The regulator is stamped "Pres Reg 002 3116AV". No info can be found on it.

I received the new fuel module, however it did not come with 3/8" NPT to 5/8" barb fittings, so I had to order those. I'll be re-assembling everything and test running next weekend.

I'm quite amazed this thing was running as well as it was as these fuel issues were developing.

 

[pyro]

Hi OzRob,
Glad my findings are already helping others. I would say the mud is the fuel/rust/salt concoction your fuel pump is mixing up for you.

I'm not sure of the placement of your generator, but assuming you can get to the front of the generator, getting this pump off is actually very easy. For me, easier than getting the injector off. There are three bolts on those rubber grommets, sounds like your missing the one on top. I kept the two pumps interconnected, and removed the 3 bolts from fuel module and then disconnected bracket holding pick up fuel pump. Once everything is free you are able to pull downwards and get the short outlet cooling hose off. It sort of gets hung up on the ADC controller enclosure, but wasn't too hard to get it out.

Once you get it out, take the top off with the 6 allen key bolts. If it turned out ok, I think you could make up a new gasket to put it back together. But I don't think you'll need to put it back together.

I'll take a video next weekend to show all angles of the unit since everything is easily accessible atm. If you need better pics of something let me know.

 

[OzRob]

Hi pyro,

Thanks for that explanation - the flow diagram is very helpful.
I had thought that the regulator was actually in the water circuit, given how rusty it looked, but couldn't understand it's purpose.
Knowing that it's in the fuel circuit makes things clear - it's regulates the recirculating fuel that the high pressure pump delivers in excess of what the injector needs.
I'll also be interested in the condition of your Facet pump and inline filter. I've been inclined to blame them for my problems, no doubt because I failed to grasp the intricacies of the hp pump/cooler design.
As you say, the condition of the regulator would explain the fuel discoloration and the sludge I had in the injector.
I look forward to seeing the result of your test run with the new unit.

The following shows the limited access I have to the genset - the exhaust ducting of the port engine is about 50mm from the front face of the unit.

I'm investigating the possibility of removing the ducting, hopefully without flooding the boat, so I can avoid having to remove the genset.

Rob

 

[pyro]

Yea, that's tight. If you decide to try to remove with ducting installed, I would maybe sacrifice the 100 mm (I'll keep it metric for you ) outlet raw water hose to heat exchanger and just cut it in half to ease removal. If anything that was the most difficult since it doesn't have much room to bend. The facet pump is the widest so not sure you can get that to clear.

I'm guessing the Facet pump is ok. I'm not going to take it apart, so I can keep it as a spare.

I forgot to mention, I found a small piece of impeller at the bottom of the water jacket in the fuel pump. It's actually pictured above. It was right before the 90 degree bend.

Do you have a better picture of the top of the fuel module? I think you can see significant corrosion on the outside - exactly like mine. The brass barb to NPT actually broke off the housing when we were separating the two halfs. It's almost like the top of the housing was made out of a cheap grade metal, while the bottom half is good quality. Even the housing material inside of the water jacket on the bottom half of the pump was in good shape. The top half around that fitting was so corroded you could just dig right into it with a sharp object. Not sure why such a difference.

How many hours on your generator?

 

[OzRob]

I'll keep it metric for you

Haa . . thanks for that!
Actually I'm old enough to be familiar with the Imperial System - it was a bit of a pain when Australia changed over to Metric (I was in the engineering industry) but once we got used to it I can't imagine how we managed previously.
("Lets see here, ummm . . 1/64" plus 1/4"plus 3/10" plus thirty thou = ???).
Everything is so much simpler when it's all a multiple of 10!

Back to the issue at hand -

The corrosion on the top is just as you have -

It's possible to pick bits of oxidised aluminium out with a screwdriver.

You can also see my problem with the clearance - I doubt I can get a socket onto the bolts for the bottom of the cooler and the Facet pump bracket. This photo was taken by my electrician holding his mobile phone down in the bilge!

Good idea to cut the connecting hose - I have to replace the section from the seacock to the strainer anyway and it looks to be the same size. Some one has previously replaced the section from the strainer to the genset pump - that's it with the green stripe - so the other sections are probably past their use-by date.

My genset has done 34 hours, which co-incidentally is the same as yours from what I can see on your video.
We bought the boat in Sept 2017 at which time it only had 19 hours on it, but even then it was a pain to start, throwing up LOC and UU codes all the time. I'd got into the habit of expecting to have about 4 to 6 attempts before it would keep running. Most of the time it was LOC, which I suspect is because the water drains down when it's been sitting for a while and the pressure sensor stops the engine within about 10 seconds if the system hasn't pressurised.
I believe if the time-out was increased to 30 seconds this problem would be resolved - wish I new how to do it!

I checked the impeller a few months ago and it was quite good, so I suspect it's been replaced at some point, probably when the inlet hose was done, although that doesn't mean that there's not a bit of the old one floating around somewhere in the system, as you found!

One last thing - can you please advise the part number for the cooler/pump unit?
I've found them online but I'd like to confirm the correct number.
I note that they're about US$520 in the US (plus another US$100 freight to Australia - I can see why Fedex can afford a fleet of jet airliners).
The genset guy who had suggested removing it from the boat has quoted me about A$1500 (US$1000) to buy one locally, assuming it's available. I must say I'm less than impressed with the Kohler support in Australia, on the West Coast anyway - might be better in Sydney.
No one seems to know much about them and parts are hard to get and very expensive.

 

[pyro]

See Kohler Parts List
However the fuel cooler pump module was replaced with new part number: GM54991 which is what I ordered. It comes non-painted. I bought from ASAP www.partsfortechs.com. There are some options on ebay which may be better for international shipping?
I also purchased the Facet fuel pump as mentioned earlier without the connector: 249862
And a new fuel filter: 267987

Let's talk about LOC error, since I have seen many complaints on that. I have never got LOC. Manual is a bit confusing here:

Shutdown occurs 5 seconds after a loss of coolant condition is detected. This protection becomes active 10 seconds after the engine has reached its stated crank disconnect speed and remains active as long as the generator run command is active.
Units with serial number 2199434 and later: In the event of a shutdown because of the high exhaust temperature switch, the ADC will display fault code LOC.

I have a serial number less than 2199434 and do not have a high exhaust temperature sensor/switch. I do have a engine coolant temperature sensor that goes to the ECM. This is a NTC thermistor sensor which produces a resistance based on temperature. The ECM injects a current across the resistance and reads back a voltage indicating the temperature. I have overheated it once and received the HE error code indicating that sensor was too high (did not properly bleed coolant when refilling). The ECM has the ability to check sensor diagnostics on this sensor if it is a open or short circuit based on if the voltage (proportional to its resistance and thus temperature) is out of range.

Looking at the wiring diagram, the high exhaust temperature switch (ECT) appears to really be a simple on/off switch going to the ADC2100 controller. It shows normally open, so assume it closes when temperature gets too high. I would guess you can easily disconnect the sensor and run without a LOC error. Otherwise its inverse, and you would need to short it.

Have you ever received a EC62 error? This is from the pressure switch on the heat exchanger, which can be seen in your picture. That is also easy to disable since it's normally open when pressure is ok. Simply disconnect and you will not trigger EC62. I did this a lot for testing.

I believe I have even figured out a method to run the engine only without generator or any safety circuits shutting it down. By powering the ECM directly, the engine should try to start and run at 3600 RPM. It was a bit risky to be playing with $2k of electronics, so I didn't try it in case I was wrong and damaged something.

Let me know what you decide to do.

 

[OzRob]

It appears I've downloaded an earlier version of the parts list - it doesn't include the fuel injected engines, hence no mention of the cooler/HP pump module. I've now got the one you linked - thankyou.

I've finally found a local dealer who seems to have some Kohler parts, (the Facet pump and filter) but the cooler/pump has to come from the US. Will investigate the most economical outcome, but I suspect just buying it from him will be the way I'll go. The freight is a killer, the exrate is abysmal and we have a Goods & Services Tax (GST) which adds 10% to everything we buy.

My genset serial number is also lower than 2199434 and has no exhaust temperature switch, and in any case I get the LOC shutdown within the 5 second time frame so it wouldn't have time to reach an overtemp condition.
I suspect that when they added the high exhaust temperature sensor option they couldn't be arsed creating a new code in the ADC so just wired it to the LOC. Just my guess - otherwise how do you make sense of a code that means Loss of Coolant (pressure) that occurs when the exhaust gas temp is too high?

I don't recall ever seeing the EC62 code - in fact the Operating Manual I have (TP-6390 1/06) doesn't list it in the fault code description section. I also found the following online:
https://www.justanswer.com/boat/6p3qe-ecd-marine-gas-generator-after-seconds-stops.html
As my boat is a year older than yours maybe the EC62 code was a more recent development - this guy doesn't have it either, although he doesn't mention what year the genset is.
I'm therefore assuming the pressure sensor that gives you the EC62 will also be the one that's giving me the LOC.
However just to confuse things a little more, on the drawing of the genset this sensor, item 5, is identified as follows:
"Seawater pressure switch (appears as auxiliary fault on ADC)"
I've never seen the AF code come up so maybe there's a cockup in the manual.

Anyway, I have to get the thing running again before thinking about solving the LOC shutdowns.
Looking forward to seeing your results before I commit to vast expense.

 

[pyro]

Interesting. I suspect the ECM is different between ours. The temperature switch goes to same input on ECM, just apparently makes different codes between our models. Disconnecting the pressure switch should disable the error temporarily. I'm sure the error is related.

Just installed everything tonight. I was thinking of how much more difficult its going to be for you given your access. Getting it back together with all the proper angles with the 45 degree fittings is more difficult than removing it.

I'll do a fuel pressure test first. Then fire it up. I'm fully expecting this to run like a champ! Either tomorrow night or Saturday. I have a 1.5 kW space heater I'll load it up with. It will be another 3 weeks before I get it in the water and truly test it.

 

[OzRob]

I'll be interested to hear the fuel pressure results.
Given the access problems I'm facing I want to bench test mine before re-installing, so it would be good to know what I should be seeing.

 

[pyro]

It works! Pressure tested at 44-45 psi and it held perfect. Primed fuel line and it started right up. Switched 1.5 kw load on and off and you couldn't even hear a difference in the engine trying to adjust for it.

Will report back in a few weeks when it goes in the water and we have a better chance to test it, but I'm calling this fixed!

Let us know what you decide to do. If you take the fuel module apart, let us know what you find. Unless the housing is in much better condition than mine was and a similar regulator can be found, I don't think its repairable.

 

[OzRob]

Great result - congrats!

I haven't yet had the opportunity to get to the boat and try to get mine out but will hopefully get onto it this week.

Following your info about the Walbro pump I found this on their site:
www.walbro.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Walbro_Vapor_Separators_PS_EN-1.pdf
Not specifically a fuel cooler unit but does the design of that cast housing look familiar?

 

[pyro]

There are a lot of similarities. Good possibility Walbro makes the entire module including housing and regulator. What is most similar is the u shaped mounting flanges. Even some of flush cuts near the gasket edge are similar. But what are you thinking to do with that part? How much?

I thought about trying to use a regular fuel pressure pump without the water cooling. Even looked at what Westerbeke uses. Seems they used to have generators that were not water cooled. Then they did a service bulletin saying that the units could become vapor locked. The newer units had a water cooled fuel pump for somewhere around $800-$900. That's one of the few benefits of having a Kohler it seems.

 

[OzRob]

I'm sure you're correct - no doubt Kohler just purchase the complete module from Walbro.

Interesting that your pump seemed to have been working OK - the outlet pressure on the new unit is pretty much the same as the old one - so it looks like the problem was just the rusty regulator. Presumably stuck open so the required flow wasn't getting to the injector.

Assuming my pump is also OK, and I can get the module apart without damage, I'll try contacting Walbro to see if they will sell me a new regulator, or maybe give me the details of the manufacturer if they don't make it themselves.
It appears that most of the cost of the thing is in the casting, plus their markup, of course.

Getting away with just replacing the regulator, Facet pump and filter would be a bonus, but in reality I suspect that when I get it apart I'll have the same issues that you did and a new module will be the only solution.

Will post a few photos when I get it apart.

 

[OzRob]

Made a start on the Genset repairs today - first priority was to see if I could get access to the fuel cooler/pump module to enable it's removal - which required removing the port engine exhaust ducting from the muffler.
The unknown factor was if water would pour in, and if so, could I get the duct back on before the boat sank.
Turns out I was stressing about nothing - the water level in the muffler was about 100mm below the muffler inlet nozzle so no problem. Removing the duct also confirmed that I now had the necessary access - so far so good.

After removing the bolts and pulling the module forward I noticed an accumulation of salty crud on the back of the module and also the generator frame.

Finally wriggled it out around the bottom edge of the control panel and had my first good look at it.

Turned it over, had a poke about with a screwdriver and discovered this:

It got even uglier when I took it apart.

Tried to get the pump out but only succeeded in pulling off the discharge nozzle.

Got it out eventually by using pointy nose vice grips on the blue plastic bit.

The pump is the same model Walbro as yours, pyro - no surprise there - and it was actually in quite good condition, other than the fact that it didn't run ! With the nozzle removed I could see a part of the impeller or whatever and when I applied power it moved a tad, then stopped. I assume it was working before I removed it so maybe I did some damage when I yanked it out.
It has a fine screen on the bottom, not visible in this photo, which had a fair amount of crap covering it, which could be the reason for the slow running of the genset.

The regulator also looked fine when I cleaned it up - no rust - but I've no way of knowing if it functions.
Interestingly it doesn't have any part number, in fact no markings at all.

So, it appears that Walbro have a serious problem with the QA/QC department of their casting foundry - according to their website it's in Mexico. Just like yours, the bottom part is very good, the top is like cardboard - just add water and it disintegrates.

Next step is to repeat your process and buy all the bits.
I've decided to buy direct from the US instead of the local guy - it works out to about a $400 - $500 saving, even with freight. I'll use the same guys you did.

I thought I'd replace the heat-exchanger anode while I had access to it - something tells me it's not been touched since the boat was built in 2007!

For those unfamiliar with them, this is what a new one looks like.

 

[pyro]

Wow! Excellent pictures. Thanks for sharing.

If you are doing an order, I would also replace your impellor in the raw water pump. Don't want to break off a piece and get it stuck in your new pump or heat exchanger after all this.

Are you going to replace Facet pump and pre-filter? I would think you don't need to. I initially was worried this bad fuel/corrosion could backfeed into the facet pump, but there seems to be a check valve at the output. The Facet pump shipped with a plastic protective sleeve over the input and output and they filled the fitting with a small amount of lubricating oil which just sat in there.

I initially was looking for a breakdown of the gasket, but now I think the casting was so pourous that salt water just permeated through the material.

 

[OzRob]

I already have a new impeller - I bought it locally a few months ago when I was getting the LOC code all the time.
I actually pulled out the old one, but then after seeing that it was in near new condition, I put it back again. Probably a dumb idea, in hindsight! I'll replace it this time however, just to be sure.

I ordered all the stuff last night - the module, facet pump, filter and HE anode.
Those guys at the supplier in PA (ASAP) are on the ball - I had an email this morning to say the package had already shipped, as well as one from Fedex confirming they'd collected it. It should arrive towards the end of next week.

I powered the Facet and it seemed to work OK, and likewise the filter - I blew through it and it didn't appear to have any restriction - but for the sake on an extra $80 or so I'd rather replace them and have the peace of mind. It'll be one less thing to look at if (when!) the bloody thing gives me problems in the future.

I intend sending an email to Walboro with a few of the photos - I can't believe that they don't know about this, but then again maybe people just replace the module and accept it without complaint as a routine maintenance issue.
If the genset had done a few hundred hours I might agree, but to have it deteriorate like this after only 34 hours there has to be a design and/or manufacturing problem.