Maretron MPower and Digital switching with the IPG100

[Skybolt]

Originally I had setup a Yacht Devices NMEA 2000 Digitial Switch - YDCC-04 as written up on Panbo by Ben Stein, Ben is also the owner for the US Yacht Devices site and is quite helpful in a pinch. I went with this because it was affordable compared to CZone, which uses proprietary PGN's. The only issue I have with the YD switch is the wiring, they did not take the complete picture in to account and is quite the mess to wire. Once you make the cable harness up with the proper connectors it's fine, but a whole lot of work. But in trying to get the carling switches to work with lighting up the active circuit I fried the YDCC. Having followed Maretron's MPower product line, I was thinking of switching over to that anyway and now this is my chance since the YDCC is toast.

So I picked up the MPower CLMD12 and two VMM6's without switch covers. The VMM6 takes standard carling conturea switch covers that can be ordered from Newwire marine and even have custom one's made up pretty inexpensivly. Although I haven't mounted the VMM6's yet, they look to be the same exact size of 6 contura switches, so that shouldn't be to bad.

The CLMD12 has 12 output's at differant amperages 5-12 amps. Maretron now has pre-configured files for the CLMD12 and VMM6, so they will work pretty much out of the box. They need to be uploaded via N2K Analyzer as all Maretron devices need to be, some can be configuered through a display, but this cannot be done that way and needs an IPG100 or USB100. The IPG100 allow you to run N2K View software and have remote access to everything.

The nice thing about Digital Switching is you can still have manual switches as well as operation through the MFD as well. And if you have the IPG100 you can control it from anywhere. One of the biggest reason's I didn't go with something other then a digital switching product is they are all proprietary and not NMEA2000 compatable in most cases.

This works with the Garmin MFD(s) really well and is user configurable. Below are SS's of my 7608 and also the N2K View phone app powered from the IPG100. Both the Garmin and N2K View need to be be tweaked more but they do work.

 

[Skybolt]

So since I posted this thread I have been through hell and back with Maretron. After I installed the CLMD12 it died a few months later somewhere around July. It still tuned things on, but off was very iffy. Meaning there is/was still voltage leaking at different levels to to the lights causing them to be on at different levels and burning some of them out.

I started working with Maretron over this and finally get a replacement just after Thanksgiving. It tuned out it was an older unit an out dated version and a version that was known to be bad, but I got it anyway. I didn't know any of this until it was too late and things were worse then before. Jumping through more hoops then I ever have to try and resolve this with MT, I was finally able to get a new, new one that actually worked. That was sometime in January, I installed the new one and everything seemed just peachy.

Now, this week actually, the issue is back and my courtesy lights are glowing and from with in their software various outputs have various voltages being reported when off, anything from 3-8v. Now I need to decide if I just go back to regular switching or try and fix this somehow.

It is obvious that there product has issues as they are on their third HW revision since it's release. To make things worse they are in denial of this and are not the easiest to work with at this point. Because of course it's my faulty wiring that is causing this to happen.

I will say this, I was impressed with their products when I first started using them years ago. But when I had to replace a DSM410 twice and another once and gave up and fixed it myself, glass wasn't sealed, that my opinion changed. And now this. Time to rethink all of this.

The real kicker is when I spoke with their engineer, we spoke about how this device isn't using the correct PGN's to turn on/off lights. It's only using the status PGN to do both on/off and status. He admitted it's being done wrong ...

Probably shouldn't post all of this, but hey, here it is, the truth! Very tiered of all the BS you go through with companies like this. It seems the way of things these days however ...

 

[Skybolt]

So I guess they realize there is a problem, they didn't even resist when I asked for a refund. This is for an over a product that is over a year old. Can't say they aren't fair about things. It's just a shame they didn't implement it according to the standards.

 

[bobeast]

I went with a CZone Contact 6 which is cheaper than Maretron's offering. Bonus points in that I can also control it via my Siren Marine unit which gives me control of it from anywhere. It's a bit cumbersome to set up, but once I did so, it has been flawless. I can now control the circuits from my Garmin, from the helm switches or from my iPhone (via Siren Marine)

 

[Skybolt]

I went with a CZone Contact 6 which is cheaper than Maretron's offering. Bonus points in that I can also control it via my Siren Marine unit which gives me control of it from anywhere. It's a bit cumbersome to set up, but once I did so, it has been flawless. I can now control the circuits from my Garmin, from the helm switches or from my iPhone (via Siren Marine)

Yeah siren integrates with CZone real well. I had the same with Maretron and still do, but no switching now.

I am considering CZone, spoke with Zack at Gemeco today about this. But I am on the fence about it as it is also a non-standard implementation. I was hoping to find something that would be compatible with Maretron. I just ordered a Oceanic output module, but only to experiment with. CZone is probably the way I am going to go at the end of the day, if the Oceanic won't interface with Garmin.

Curious how you interfaced the switches with the contact 6. The issue I have with the switches are being able to have on/off indication as well as back light for night time. Not many choices unless you go with dual led round buttons or dual activation Contura ones. Also can't find the interface module for analog switches ...

 

[bobeast]

I'm basically just running the contact 6 outputs in parallel with the contoura dash switches. I did upgrade to dual LED switches a while back. So when I turn on my anchor light via Garmin, for example, the anchor switch lights up. I'm not familiar with any non-standard sentence issues. Both Garmin and Siren seem to work with the Contact 6 just fine, which is good enough for me.

I do like Oceanic hardware. I have their AC monitor and am thinking about their DC monitor as it is the only one I've found that can operate without a shunt.

 

[Skybolt]

I'm basically just running the contact 6 outputs in parallel with the contoura dash switches. I did upgrade to dual LED switches a while back. So when I turn on my anchor light via Garmin, for example, the anchor switch lights up. I'm not familiar with any non-standard sentence issues. Both Garmin and Siren seem to work with the Contact 6 just fine, which is good enough for me.

I do like Oceanic hardware. I have their AC monitor and am thinking about their DC monitor as it is the only one I've found that can operate without a shunt.

The standard PGN's used for digital switching are 127502 to switch the outputs o/off and PGN 127501 as the status of what is on/off. MAretron only uses 127501 and CZone uses proprietary communications. The Garmin MFD's talk CZone and the N2K standard as well. When you installed the CZone on the Garmin, you needed to set the virtual dip switches on screen. That was for the proprietary comms. You can't take a CZone keypad and turn other N2K devices on/off.

To interface your switches CZone has an interface module that also requires cables that plug into the back of the switch and an RJ45 plug that goes into the module. They call the module the COI Digital Switch Breakout.

At the end of the day it cost's upwards of $1500 to install the CZone and also interface with the six rocker switches. A little crazy.

 

[ttmott]

I remember you wanting to discuss digital switching several years ago; I think when I first started the SR Monitor replacement work. I wanted to have the capability to remotely switch some things on and off (spreader lights, etc) but couldn't see the net advantage for the cost and loss in reliability for a smallish boat like mine. Maybe more applicable in a 70 plus footer however. In my head I didn't want to deal with issues in the middle of nowhere.

 

[Skybolt]

I remember you wanting to discuss digital switching several years ago; I think when I first started the SR Monitor replacement work. I wanted to have the capability to remotely switch some things on and off (spreader lights, etc) but couldn't see the net advantage for the cost and loss in reliability for a smallish boat like mine. Maybe more applicable in a 70 plus footer however. In my head I didn't want to deal with issues in the middle of nowhere.

I remember that as well and you talked me out of it also and for the most part you still are correct. It isn't really worth adding all of this except if you want to be able to turn some lights on/off remotely.

I was in the middle of re-wiring my dash last year and decided to go the rest of the way with Maretron. I figured they're half the price of CZone for twice as much support (12 lights). Then all of this happened and now I have a cable end with six of my dash switches in it.

So I either split out that cable and re-introduce the switches or I see if I can make something else work. Haven't come to terms on that statement quite yet. And am very much on the fence, except I use the Maretron N2K app al of the time and really liked being able to turn the lights on/off. I don't have much that matters on only the Spreader lights, arch lights, courtesy lights, engine room lights, underwater lights and the dash lights. I had others but the dam CLMD12 blew out things so I stopped using it for those lights and replaced them with standard switches.

I know if I went with CZone from the beginning and Siren Marine I would be a happy camper. But I have been using Maretron for years before Siren was able to do what it is today.

 

[Skybolt]

I went and ordered the Oceanic System 8 Output Module and had it up and running in minutes. Garmin MFD no problem. Not bad for under $300.

Next is getting the switches working via N2K, that's a little trickier as the switches need to be wired and feedback leds as well, to a switch module.

 

[Skybolt]

Well @bobeast I can see why you wired the czone switching in parallel with the standard switches. Also why every manufacturer seems to do things their way and proprietary.

I never really put any thought into what is needed to do this right. You need a momentary switch to turn a channel on, a feedback line to light the the indicator led, and a 2nd led for the dash light. That particular switch does not exist in a Contura package. It only exists in a round button style, and why you always see that style in all of the new boats.

The other issue is the wiring, not too many, if any, offer up ways of interfacing switch's to there system. Maretron and CZone are the only two I know of that do. The first has many issues and while CZone is the de facto standard, they don't play well outside of CZone. They mostly only support new installs.

Yacht Devices makes a switch control device, YDSC-04, but only seems to support switches 1-4 then you have to go to the next bank (instance number). Their channel indicator is a 3.3v output made for led's only, even has an internal 200 ohm resistor, and can't be used for 12v lights. so basically not usable for many applications, except new wiring.

There really isn't any option for a retrofit it seems. OR CZone is the only option ...

 

[ttmott]

I'm kinda liking what Raymarine has to offer in their Yachtsense products - https://www.raymarine.com/en-us/our-products/digital-boating/yachtsense-digital-control-systems
Very comprehensive. Compatible with Garmin and Maretron???

 

[ttmott]

This also looks interesting and seems well established - https://www.empirbus.com/

 

[Skybolt]

@ttmott Yeah the RM is proprietary as well, and only for boat builders. They will not discuss anything with the end user. Little to no information other then that page is available. I did speak with them a few years ago when they first came out with it. But does look to be a very nice system.

Garmin bought Empirbus and has put out a product called Boat Switch it is a sibling of their DCM/Connect 50. The boat switch looks like a real nice product and with a little work could be adapted to use Contura switches. It supports switch inputs and with some extra wiring this Contura switch could be used. Most likely what I will be moving too at a later date.

 

[Skybolt]

Here's a pretty nice review of Yacht Sense.

It seems the boating industry thinks everyone wants to control their boat from a navigation screen and put $2K-3K displays around the boat to turn things on/off. A touch screen cannot replace a real switch/button to turn something on/off.

 

[bobeast]

Well @bobeast I can see why you wired the czone switching in parallel with the standard switches. Also why every manufacturer seems to do things their way and proprietary.

I never really put any thought into what is needed to do this right. You need a momentary switch to turn a channel on, a feedback line to light the the indicator led, and a 2nd led for the dash light. That particular switch does not exist in a Contura package. It only exists in a round button style, and why you always see that style in all of the new boats.

The other issue is the wiring, not too many, if any, offer up ways of interfacing switch's to there system. Maretron and CZone are the only two I know of that do. The first has many issues and while CZone is the de facto standard, they don't play well outside of CZone. They mostly only support new installs.

Yacht Devices makes a switch control device, YDSC-04, but only seems to support switches 1-4 then you have to go to the next bank (instance number). Their channel indicator is a 3.3v output made for led's only, even has an internal 200 ohm resistor, and can't be used for 12v lights. so basically not usable for many applications, except new wiring.

There really isn't any option for a retrofit it seems. OR CZone is the only option ...

Yeah the only downside to the parallel approach is that either mechanism overrides the other. You can't turn something on via NMEA and then turn it off via switch, and vercy-vicy. It works well for my purposes, but doesn't work like a 3-way switch in a house which I think is most folks expectation..

I mainly just use it to turn on my anchor light if I dinghy ashore and forgot to do so, or turn on the cockpit lights when returning to the mothership after dark.

I'm working on some software that will automatically turn on my anchor light at sunset if anchor watch is active, so this will work well for that.

 

[Skybolt]

Yeah the only downside to the parallel approach is that either mechanism overrides the other. You can't turn something on via NMEA and then turn it off via switch, and vercy-vicy. It works well for my purposes, but doesn't work like a 3-way switch in a house which I think is most folks expectation..

I mainly just use it to turn on my anchor light if I dinghy ashore and forgot to do so, or turn on the cockpit lights when returning to the mothership after dark.

I'm working on some software that will automatically turn on my anchor light at sunset if anchor watch is active, so this will work well for that.

Yeah, I am going to do it this way until I can get answers to the my questions. I have sent off emails to Yacht devices and also waiting on Garmin to get back with me on a few questions. And will probably go with the boat switch when I am ready to re-wire everything for the tenth time. I wasn't expecting Maretron to not work and thought they would actually step up and fix their issues, but I was wrong in my thinking.

Anyway, installing the boat switch will require a lot of prep and re-wiring. So once I do that and make cables and such, I will put that in.

Not a fan of automation on a boat. The house is fully automated and works great, love it. But automating the boat? Not sure about that one. Digital switching is tough enough as a retro fit, can't imagine going through automation on the boat. Especially all of the sensors that would be needed.

Anchor watch is read only and doesn't publish any PGN's to the network that I am aware of, until something happens. If you read Maretron's state(s), anchored, that would work, but that takes more effort then turning on the lights ...

Not sure what your using to read the PGN's, but Actisense has an SDK for their USB-NGT1.

 

[bobeast]

Yeah, I am going to do it this way until I can get answers to the my questions. I have sent off emails to Yacht devices and also waiting on Garmin to get back with me on a few questions. And will probably go with the boat switch when I am ready to re-wire everything for the tenth time. I wasn't expecting Maretron to not work and thought they would actually step up and fix their issues, but I was wrong in my thinking.

Anyway, installing the boat switch will require a lot of prep and re-wiring. So once I do that and make cables and such, I will put that in.

Not a fan of automation on a boat. The house is fully automated and works great, love it. But automating the boat? Not sure about that one. Digital switching is tough enough as a retro fit, can't imagine going through automation on the boat. Especially all of the sensors that would be needed.

Anchor watch is read only and doesn't publish any PGN's to the network that I am aware of, until something happens. If you read Maretron's state(s), anchored, that would work, but that takes more effort then turning on the lights ...

Not sure what your using to read the PGN's, but Actisense has an SDK for their USB-NGT1.

I wrote my own anchor watch software, which essentially just reads the GPS output of signalK or a TCP server on board OR the built in device GPS. I'm not using Maretron's software for this. I found it hard to justify their pricing. This same software will switch the anchor light on at sunset, again via signalK which puts standard sentences on the bus.

 

[ttmott]

I wrote my own anchor watch software, which essentially just reads the GPS output of signalK or a TCP server on board OR the built in device GPS. I'm not using Maretron's software for this. I found it hard to justify their pricing. This same software will switch the anchor light on at sunset, again via signalK which puts standard sentences on the bus.

The Maretron anchor watch is a pain to get set up and cancelled. Everything must be done in Control mode. I put up with it mainly because it will alarm all of the noise makers on the boat. No sleeping through that. Back in the day I had an App called Drag Queen on my Ipad that was great and did everything needed for anchor loss; but alas it's not supported anymore.

 

[Skybolt]

I wrote my own anchor watch software, which essentially just reads the GPS output of signalK or a TCP server on board OR the built in device GPS. I'm not using Maretron's software for this. I found it hard to justify their pricing. This same software will switch the anchor light on at sunset, again via signalK which puts standard sentences on the bus.

So your using SignalK exclusively to do this? Or reading in the data and running your own software? Very interested in that, if you could explain a little detail it would be appreciated. I have been considering writing something for my R-Pi that is running signalK already.