Need Voice of Reason

[MonacoMike]

I'm not a surveyor, but have bought without, and recently participated in three large boat surveys. Take this for what you will. Moisture meter is a low cost, do it yourself survey tool, as is a hammer sized plastic mallet for tapping hull, decking and most importantly (I think) the stringers. Feel for "softness" underfoot on all areas you will step.

And surgery is just a couple of simple cuts with a knife.

It is not the tools, pre-schoolers can do it, it is the hands and brain that run them...

MM

 

[Golfman25]

Ok here is my take. Slow down. Get all anxiety about missing Sept. boating out of your mind. Don't make a purchase like that. Spend some time learning. There a many resources online -- search Dave Pascoe (who was really over the top, but will give you things to look for) and check out boat/us seaworthy newsletters (they'll cite insurance claims which will give you things to look for).

Advantages of a survey -- cold, unbiased, hopefully experienced, set of eyes. Disadvantages -- only report, don't diagnose. What they find could or could not be a problem. So they say -- "navigation light doesn't work." Well great, that could be a $2.00 problem or a $200 problem. On large boats with large investments, they are worth it. On smaller boats and smaller investments, they may or may not be. I would say if they are easily obtainable, then worth it. But your situation, is unique.

On the boat in question, you have two major cost areas. The engine/outdrive and the hull/transom/deck structure. Most surveyors don't do engine work, so it's worth getting a mechanic. I'd have him do a compression check on the engine and a pressure test on the outdrive. Maybe even take him on the sea trial. Should be able to get someone local.

As for the structure, that's a bit harder. Surveyors will use a moisture meter (can pick one up here http://www.electrophysics.on.ca/ GRP33+ is $185) and a hammer. On your boat, the transom is the biggie. Check it with the moisture meter (look for relative changes) and confirm a problem by sounding with the hammer. Do the same on the deck. Pay specific attention anywhere the transom/deck has been pierced with a fitting of some type. Get down into the bilge and check the stringers with the meter (most of the stringers will likely be unaccessible), especially around the engine mounts.

Where in Ohio are you? Maybe someone can help. Good luck.

 

[paulswagelock]

Pictures look clean, so step one is someone likely cared for it at some time.
Boat is of an age that the drive could need pulled, bellows, shift linkages, water tubes, etc all replaced - $1500-2000.
Steering linkage worn and needing replaced - $1500-2000
Water pump replacement - $600-1000
These are just normal maintenance items or age related failures.
Then there is the chance for:
Excessive wear and metal particles in the outdrive oil - $2000-4000 lower unit replacement
Soft stringers - $thousands and thousands

The point being - all of this might be fine, but a set of trained eyes should be looking. Even the best person or surveyor can miss these and other items, but you definitely won't find them without one or the other looking.

I hear your passion and desire to get on the water, that is why we all own boats, just be cautious or accept the big $$ potential issue risks.

 

[330DA]

I looked at the pictures. I’m anal, so it could be cleaner. lol.

Seriously, it looks like there is electrical tape wrapped around a hose end coming from the bulkhead wall. Why is that there?

A drain plug is laying on the bilge floor. Next to it and between the serpentine belt and block is some sort of plastic bottle with a big open throat. Oil has dripped down the side of it. What is that doing there and what’s it for? To catch dripping oil?

I understand your excitement, but cool down. You can rent a boat if you want to be on the water and go for a ride. This boat will be cheaper next spring, if the owner doesn’t sell it now.

 

[be_prepared]

Lots of great input here. Just wanted to say that I laughed when I saw the title: "Need voice of reason" … We're all boat owners, so you're probably looking for folks that decided not to buy a boat

 

[ohioboater]

I looked at the pictures. I’m anal, so it could be cleaner. lol.

Seriously, it looks like there is electrical tape wrapped around a hose end coming from the bulkhead wall. Why is that there?

A drain plug is laying on the bilge floor. Next to it and between the serpentine belt and block is some sort of plastic bottle with a big open throat. Oil has dripped down the side of it. What is that doing there and what’s it for? To catch dripping oil?

I understand your excitement, but cool down. You can rent a boat if you want to be on the water and go for a ride. This boat will be cheaper next spring, if the owner doesn’t sell it now.

Wow you are detailed...I will note these for the surveyor, just for my own knowledge. After all the comments here, I have decided to overpay and bring the guy in who charges $800. He is available and sounds like, based on how much time he says he will take, he will give it a good inspection.

 

[sbw1]

You are assuming the boat has been stored on a trailer. Maybe it was for the year that the current seller has owned it. What about the other owners' uses and storage practices? Did they also store on a trailer?
Concerning the WOT test. Look up the Merc I/O set up you have and see what WOT is spec'd per Merc. This number is readily available from online Merc sites. Once you know that number, run the boat at WOT for about 1-2 minutes and see what happens. Temperatures should be stable and not showing any overheating on the gauges. Then take it for a good 20-30 minute ride. If all goes well, it may be sound mechanically. With your lack of experience, you are unlikely to uncover any serious issues that may be present. Consider the possibility that you may have to spend some serious money ($3000 to $5000) to fix stuff you missed. If that does not concern you, buy it assuming you have determined the fair market price for that model. You want to be able to sell it if you don't like it without getting seriously hosed.

 

[BillK2632]

Yeah, pictures can be hard, from what I can see there are some good and maybe not so good things.

1. The little blue plug in the bilge is a block drain plug, could be laying there because he winterized it or was in the process of winterizing. Don't know what the grey thing is.
2. Overall the bilge looks somewhat dirty - doesn't mean it was abused, just didn't get in there and really clean the bilge.
3. It has a NAPA oil filter - these are probably better than the Mercury / Quicksilver filters - indicates the owner probably did his own maintenance.
4. The bow is pretty beat up probably from the trailer - looks like an pretty simple gelcoat repair.

Being your first boat and all, you are probably doing the right thing by getting someone to look at it for you - I would try to be there, you can learn a lot from a survey.

 

[Creekwood]

At a minimum do a engine and out drive survey. You can just take it to a mechanic.

When I bought my first boat (20ft cuddy) I did not get a survey. But I arranged with a local marine mechanic to come with me to see and sea trial the boat and to give me an estimate of recommended repairs. I paid him his hourly rate and promised him if I bought the boat, he would do the repairs needed. For my boat there was about $2,500 of repairs needed to the outdrive. Needed a complete bellows replacement and reseal. Also the prop shaft was out of spec and they sourced me a used one. The seller dropped the price to cover the repairs other than the 2 hrs of mechanics time.

 

[ohioboater]

Yeah, pictures can be hard, from what I can see there are some good and maybe not so good things.

1. The little blue plug in the bilge is a block drain plug, could be laying there because he winterized it or was in the process of winterizing. Don't know what the grey thing is.
2. Overall the bilge looks somewhat dirty - doesn't mean it was abused, just didn't get in there and really clean the bilge.
3. It has a NAPA oil filter - these are probably better than the Mercury / Quicksilver filters - indicates the owner probably did his own maintenance.
4. The bow is pretty beat up probably from the trailer - looks like an pretty simple gelcoat repair.

Being your first boat and all, you are probably doing the right thing by getting someone to look at it for you - I would try to be there, you can learn a lot from a survey.

About the block drain plug...when I took these pics was the first (and only so far) time I saw the boat. He used muffs and started it up for me...it would not have ran without that plug, correct?

 

[Espos4]

by the way; if you do wind up buying this or any 240 Sundeck, you’ll be very happy. They have a great layout and plenty of storage and seating.

One of Sea rays most popular models for these reasons.

 

[ohioboater]

by the way; if you do wind up buying this or any 240 Sundeck, you’ll be very happy. They have a great layout and plenty of storage and seating.

One of Sea rays most popular models for these reasons.

I looked at a 220 and really liked it, then found this one and liked it even more. Everyone keeps telling me the bigger the better for Lake Erie, so we feel this is the better option.

 

[boatman37]

that drain plug may have been lost before. i found one in my bilge that i'm guessing somebody dropped at some point and couldn't reach it so grabbed a new one off the shelf

 

[ohioboater]

that drain plug may have been lost before. i found one in my bilge that i'm guessing somebody dropped at some point and couldn't reach it so grabbed a new one off the shelf

before even looking at your user details, i knew your boat was in Pittsburgh...

 

[JVM225]

You’re new to boating. Get the survey. It’s easier to buy a good boat than to deal with headaches. If this one doesn’t work out the next one will come along before you know it.
I’m an experienced boater and a decent DIY’er and even though I meticulously screened my boat before I got a surveyor, once I got him and he did his inspection he found things that I missed. The seller (a dealer) agreed to take care of them before delivery and the total cost (money I saved) was more than the surveyor charged me.

 

[Captn TJ]

No maintenance records. The story is he has only owned the boat one season (owned a similar boat with a cuddy previously, wanted open bow). Now he is selling because he is moving (for sale sign was in yard). He purchased from a dealer. Fresh water.

Hmmm one season? even more reason to get a survey. I've had surveys done on boats as small as 21'. The surveyor always found something that would allow me to renegotiate the price and more then pay for the survey.at the very least take it to a qualified marine tech. In addition to tests like compression, they can download info from the ECM like the rpm range the boat has been run at (how hard).

If you're in Ohio you have at least another 4-6 weeks of great boating in the northern part of the state - even more in central and southern Ohio. Be patient

 

[ohioboater]

I wold like to thank everyone for their opinions. I managed to find yet another surveyor, I am paying quite a bit, but he was available for next week when or original survey was scheduled. I am anxious to hear what he has to say about the boat...I will report back!

 

[Gofirstclass]

Ohio, smart move. If I were buying a dinghy I wouldn't get a survey. But anything larger and more complicated than that I definitely would.

 

[dtfeld]

Wow you are detailed...I will note these for the surveyor, just for my own knowledge. After all the comments here, I have decided to overpay and bring the guy in who charges $800. He is available and sounds like, based on how much time he says he will take, he will give it a good inspection.

I think your going to get your $800 worth. Tag along and ask questions about everything you can possibly think of...start writing a list. How does this or that work, what needs MX and how/ who does it and at what cost.

Then you’ve done your due diligence and can be confident the boat is a good deal. You will be a lot smarter and relaxed when you stroke the check.

 

[firecadet613]

I think your going to get your $800 worth. Tag along and ask questions about everything you can possibly think of...start writing a list. How does this or that work, what needs MX and how/ who does it and at what cost.

Then you’ve done your due diligence and can be confident the boat is a good deal. You will be a lot smarter and relaxed when you stroke the check.

Best advice yet. I've had 5 surveys over 4 different purchases (1 boat failed) and learned something from each surveyor.