Observations from Toronto boat show

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Creekwood, Jan 24, 2023.

  1. Creekwood

    Creekwood Well-Known Member GOLD Sponsor

    Apr 26, 2009
    Oakville and Georgian Bay, Ontario
    '97 330 Sundancer, Raymarine C80 suite with radar, Mercury 310 Hypalon w/8hp Yammie 2stk
    2X 454 carbs w/ vDrives
    Just spent about 4 hrs at the boat show. Some observations.

    • very few cruisers. Basically none. One little crownline 264.
    • Cruisers had a 34 outboard and a 38 I/O. Both in bow rider form. Basically no cabins on them but lots of deck space. Interesting that the head latch on the 34 was misaligned and the door would not latch.
    • Tiara had a couple of large open bow cruisers. A 48 and I think a 38. Both outboard power and bow rider style. The 48 has the 600 verados. Man they are huge.
    • The large sea Ray dealer (Pride Marine). “Boycotted” the show so no sea rays at all. Their web site says it would cost them over $1million to be there so they passed.
    • Mid week so crowds were light but vendors said it’s been busy so that’s good.
    • Looked at dingys. I think I’ll go with highfield when I replace mine. I only want about 10ft rib and the highfield seems to have what I want. Nice and light.
    • Axopar and another similar European brand were there. Not for me. Fugly IMO.
     
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  2. Golfman25

    Golfman25 Well-Known Member

    Sep 12, 2009
    IL
    1998 370 Sundancer
    7.4 MPI
    Yeah, similar to the Chicago show. Seems like they are trying to mix the day boat and "cruiser." Of the 6 or so examples at our show, Sea Ray's 370 wins -- they know how to get the most out of a design. It also had the 600 Verados.
     
  3. dtfeld

    dtfeld Water Contrails GOLD Sponsor

    Jun 5, 2016
    Milton, GA
    410 Sundancer
    2001
    12" Axiom and 9" Axiom+ MFD
    Cat 3126 V-Drives
    And it listed out at what $800k?

    I was at FLIBS. Same thing. I might be owning my current SR for a long while. Works good, lasts long.
     
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  4. Golfman25

    Golfman25 Well-Known Member

    Sep 12, 2009
    IL
    1998 370 Sundancer
    7.4 MPI
    Over 1 million. But they where running a "show special" -- 900,000 something with a free sea keeper. :)
     
  5. Creekwood

    Creekwood Well-Known Member GOLD Sponsor

    Apr 26, 2009
    Oakville and Georgian Bay, Ontario
    '97 330 Sundancer, Raymarine C80 suite with radar, Mercury 310 Hypalon w/8hp Yammie 2stk
    2X 454 carbs w/ vDrives
    The 34 Cruisers was $1.1 million Canadian. Insane.
     
  6. ttmott

    ttmott PhD in OCD TECHNICAL Contributor GOLD Sponsor

    Apr 3, 2012
    Space Coast Florida
    2006 52 Sedan Bridge
    Cummins QSM11
    The steak knives are not free no matter what they say.
     
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  7. Strecker25

    Strecker25 Well-Known Member

    Nov 20, 2014
    Rochester, NY
    2002 410DA
    Caterpillar 350HP 3126
    we were there Saturday agree with everything you said and your observations. I'm a highfield fanboy and love ours but did you get a look at the Great Lakes GL310? They are basically a highfield copy and 'show price' was $3,779 CAD, so that's pretty good. Quite a bit less than the HF but I don't know much about the company or their reputation
     
  8. GypsmJim

    GypsmJim Well-Known Member

    891
    Aug 8, 2018
    Western New York
    '19 SPX 190 OB, 150 & 5 Mercs
    '17 Whaler 150 Montauk
    '15 Yamaha FXHO
    '60 Mulray Dinghy
    '52 Lyman 15'
    Mercury 150 4-stroke
    68 Outboards representing 11 manufacturers
    The FLIBS had a number of "smaller" boats, but only in the Convention Center venue.

    The Cleveland Boat show (just last week) had almost no boats that were affordable by a "working stiff".

    Cruisers are basically obsolete. The millenials want open bows and don't stay overnight.

    It's obvious that the economy ain't so bad after all. When things are slow, the shows have a few aluminum utility boats on hand. When the cheapest one there requires a mortgage, you know that most are doing just fine.
     
  9. dtfeld

    dtfeld Water Contrails GOLD Sponsor

    Jun 5, 2016
    Milton, GA
    410 Sundancer
    2001
    12" Axiom and 9" Axiom+ MFD
    Cat 3126 V-Drives
    Ouch. But thats Canadian!!!
     
  10. Creekwood

    Creekwood Well-Known Member GOLD Sponsor

    Apr 26, 2009
    Oakville and Georgian Bay, Ontario
    '97 330 Sundancer, Raymarine C80 suite with radar, Mercury 310 Hypalon w/8hp Yammie 2stk
    2X 454 carbs w/ vDrives
    I did look at them but not sure about being a pioneer on a new brand. Everyone seems to like Highfield and CO2 inflatables, the dealer, is located in the town where our marina is so that weighs on my choice too.
     
  11. Strecker25

    Strecker25 Well-Known Member

    Nov 20, 2014
    Rochester, NY
    2002 410DA
    Caterpillar 350HP 3126
    yeah, those guys seem great. I would have bought our CL310 from them last year but the tariff was going to nearly double the cost so I found one in the states. Really nice guys, I talked to one of their salesmen for a while at the show regarding the FCT and some accessories

    for years we loved the Toronto show as a money saver on lines, fenders, etc., but even with the exchange rate right now I still find Amazon is cheaper. fun to window shop though.
     
  12. Timeflys

    Timeflys Well-Known Member GOLD Sponsor

    605
    Dec 7, 2013
    Thousand Islands, Ontario, Canada
    "Frequent Flyer"
    2002 Sundancer 360
    Merc Horizon 8.1s
    “The 34 Cruisers was $1.1 million Canadian. Insane”


    Yup … a US manufactured boat, priced in a discounted CDN greenback, and oh yeah, 13% sales tax + 10% luxury tax = an industry in trouble in Canada.
     
  13. mrsrobinson

    mrsrobinson Well-Known Member SILVER Sponsor

    Mar 9, 2006
    Virginia, USA
    2001 Sea Ray 380DA
    3126 purring CATs
    So if everybody wants open bow, no overnight cruisers, what's going to happen to transient slips and marinas in general, I assume these open bow boats don't stay in the water year-round?
     
  14. Golfman25

    Golfman25 Well-Known Member

    Sep 12, 2009
    IL
    1998 370 Sundancer
    7.4 MPI
    I think the open bow concepts are great for warm weather and calm waters. Anchoring out, sand bars, etc. I just don't see how they play on our great lakes. Not that many flat days. Even nice days can have a 2 foot chop and you can get some spray over the bow. Getting to the hangouts behind the break walls would be an adventure for the upfront passengers.

    But what I am seeing a bit of is the "combo" boat. Where they sacrifice some of the cabin headroom to put an entertainment area up on the bow and easy walk thru access to get there. As with most compromises, they don't do either area great, but could be a serviceable weekender at another marina. But forget about going on a week long trip -- I'd need a divorce lawyer when we go home. :)
     
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  15. paulswagelock

    paulswagelock Well-Known Member

    Oct 25, 2010
    pa
    2018 SDX 270 OB 300 Verado
    Verado 300
    Sounds like a decent show even in a high interest rate economy.
    Hard to imagine boats have hit the $25,000 - $30,000 per foot range.
    I saw the ‘22 version of my boat at FLIBs. It was up 55% in 4 years.
     
  16. Creekwood

    Creekwood Well-Known Member GOLD Sponsor

    Apr 26, 2009
    Oakville and Georgian Bay, Ontario
    '97 330 Sundancer, Raymarine C80 suite with radar, Mercury 310 Hypalon w/8hp Yammie 2stk
    2X 454 carbs w/ vDrives
    There were very few large boats at the show. Basically on the the two cruisers and two Tiaras. The rest were a lot of centre and dual consoles and many many many pontoons. Lots of small fishing boats like Lowe and kayaks and other water toys too.

    As for the bow rider cruisers, the interiors were so tiny they were useless. The cabin in the Cruisers 38 was smaller than in the tiny Crownline 26 pocket cruiser. Maybe if you get to 48 feet there is enough space below deck to have some usable space. The below deck is treated like "extra" space that the builders can use to cram in some stuff. The aft berths were laughable. So tiny. Not even double size and headroom was less than 3ft for sure (the only sex will be on your side- LOL). Crawling in would be like getting into a fiberglass sleeping bag and as fun as being in an MRI tube.
     
  17. copb8tx

    copb8tx Well-Known Member SILVER Sponsor

    Jan 26, 2008
    Highland Village, TX/Port Richey, FL
    SOLD 2005 420 DA w/T-8.1S Horizons
    2018 Sea Hunt 255se w/Yamaha 300hp
    Everyone uses their boats differently, and certainly where you boat has a big impact on the type of boat that's popular in those areas. Also, how much time you have to spend on the boat will influence your preferences. I, personally, love the big hybrid open bow/small cabin layout. I like the idea of using the boat for day trips as well as some longer trips where you might stay a night or two on the boat, or hook up to a transient slip and Uber to a hotel. That's my theory any way.

    I also think the bigger range of these open bow boats (35' and up) are quite capable of hitting some bigger seas and shedding any water coming over the bow quickly. Look at what the deep sea center consoles handle with their entire topsides exposed. The freeboard of a 35'+ foot is very high at the bow.

    I have to agree that pricing seems crazy to me as well, especially considering the potential depreciation. We were on a '23 Tiara 38' LS at the St. Pete show and it was boat-show-priced at $900K with triple 400's. Another broker there had the same 38 but was a 2019 with triple 300's with only 112hrs for $575K and wanting offers. Even considering the engine cost difference, that's a chunk of change per hour to lose on a boat.
     
  18. Creekwood

    Creekwood Well-Known Member GOLD Sponsor

    Apr 26, 2009
    Oakville and Georgian Bay, Ontario
    '97 330 Sundancer, Raymarine C80 suite with radar, Mercury 310 Hypalon w/8hp Yammie 2stk
    2X 454 carbs w/ vDrives
    I understood the theory until I got on that Cruisers 38. That "cabin" is so cramped its basically useless. There is no way I could get my wife to agree to stay any time down there. I think its a typical compromised design. I guess once you get to a huge size, the bow rider section allows some space under the cockpit floor in the bow area that they can utilize and a horribly cramped cabin is the result. Personally, I think the large center console boat's under console cabins are just as nice.
     
  19. radscoot

    radscoot Member

    78
    Nov 8, 2016
    Georgian Bay, Canada
    260 Sundancer, 2006,
    5.7 Merc/Bravo 111
    I spent the day there yesterday also. Its always nice to go mid week when its not as busy.
    Its a shame Pride Marine did not participate. Definitely a smaller showing by dealers and venders all around this year. One dealer I spoke with indicated they did not have the inventory.
    The Tiara 43LE with the Twin V12 Verados was the premier boat of the show.
     

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  20. Strecker25

    Strecker25 Well-Known Member

    Nov 20, 2014
    Rochester, NY
    2002 410DA
    Caterpillar 350HP 3126
    we'll go on the weekday next year as well, it was fun to be part of a big crowd and the kids liked the wakeboarding thing but getting on boats was a pain since most of the big ones (the tiara especially) had long lines

    I did check out the Axopar because we're seeing a lot of them around us in Rochester now. While not cheap, the price point is a little more reasonable than some others and the quality seemed good. I'm not crazy about the look of them but they're supposed to perform really well
     

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