Purchasing 2005 280 Sundancer - No Buzzer on Starboard Engine

Nelco

Nelco

Member
Sep 19, 2020
31
San Antonio, TX
Boat Info
280 Sundancer 2003
Engines
305 Mercruiser
I'm purchasing a 280 Sundancer and the port engine starts fine but the starboard engine seems to be having some issues.

When you move Port engine switch to first position,you hear a pump in bilge..

When you move Starboard engine switch to first position, not buzzer/alarm no pump sound.. Engine tries to start if you go to position two but fuel
Checked fuel pump and it works.

Any suggestions on what to check would be greatly appreciated.

Update: below is detailed info on everything we have tried and tested
 
Last edited:
Contacts on that rocker switch can get dirty. It can removed and cleaned. Do you have power at the fuel pump relay? Fuel pump has a fuse also. How did you confirm the pump works?
 
Confirmed pump works by taking pump off the side of the engine and then powering it with an extra battery..

We unplugged the switch on the dash and re-pulugged it in.

We checked the fuses and they were good..

We checked the relays both are good. but no power is going to the second one..
 
We actually swapped the switches on the dash (swapped port/starboard wires in the back of switches) and starboard was still not working.
 
One other thing..

When you switch the starboard switch to position 1.. no buzz no fuel pump.. but when you press it all the way down, the engine turns over but doesn't start.

Thank you so much for the advice.. I'm a bit out of my league on this one!
 
If you are buying the boat have the seller fix the problem at his expense. Don't know why you are wrenching a boat you don't yet own.
 
Howdy folks! Here is a detailed list of what Phil (Nelco) and I have done so far.
This should add some additional light to your questions, @scoflaw .


280 Sundancer 2008, Twin 305 Mercruiser


Condition...

Port Engine (#1)
(Air, Fuel, Spark)
Status beep - yes
Fuel pump prime - yes
Turn over - yes
Fires - yes

Starboard Engine (#2)
(Air, No Fuel, Spark)
Status beep - no
Fuel pump prime - no
Turn over - yes
Fires - no (obviously, no fuel)


Troubleshooting…

Spark:
Confirmed #2 spark by spraying starter fluid; ran on starter fluid.

Starter Toggle Switches:
Swapped console switch from #1 to #2; same results for both engines. Switches appear to operate properly then. #2 still did not prime or fire by using #1 switch.

Found a pin collapsed in starter switches harness behind console. Dismantled connector and reseated pin. Same results.

Pump:
#2 Pump works… applied direct 12V from battery for a short prime.
No voltage at harness connector attached to pump when crank toggled first position or starting position. (Remember, this toggle DID fire #1 when swapped.) Out of curiosity, anyone have the wiring diagram for this segment? Book 24 doesn’t seem to have detailed bits.

Fuses:
Found 3 fuse block next to ECM and relays. Continuity test on all fuses passes.
Anyone have a diagram for these fuses and where they route?

Bow Facing Fuse:
Based on reference test from #1, it would seem the bow facing fuse is constant 12V. (This slot has no voltage on #2).

Middle Fuse:
Both #1 and #2 are 0V ignition off and gain 12V when toggle is in first and start position.

Stern facing fuse:
#1 gains 12V on toggle positions.
#2 has no voltage on toggle positions.

Relays:
#1 Engine… Appears the bow relay activates the stern relay; as I hear the bow one click an instant before the stern.
#2 Engine… Only bow facing relay clicks/activates. Stern relay does not click. (Assume stern is what activates fuel pump?)
Basic relay test (does it click?). Swapped relays and still only the one connected to the box facing harness clicks. So, conclude it may not be relay issue.

Is the missing constant 12V on the bow facing fuse the matter? Where does that route?

Oil Pressure Switch:
Is this supposed to be Normally Open (NO) or Normally Closed (NC)?
Didn’t get it out of the block, as I didn’t have all my tools with me.
Removed the connector from the tip and put a volt meter between the connector and the pin. ~12V passes when Starter Toggle is switched. I assume this means the switch is closed inside. But, should it be open or closed initially? I have not taken it out yet to check. Assume continuity though, since volt meter grounds when 12V applied.

Breakers:
No breakers on bilge wall appear to be tripped, and I played Elf in the Elevator with them, just to be certain.
Breakers starboard of consoled appear straight as well.
Thought one of the breakers next to the stern cutoff switches had a loose internal contact. Swapped wiring with #1 and #2; same results as before. #1 still worked / #2 did not.

Batteries:
PO also moved batteries around a bit it seems. Would someone confirm to me battery placement/order?
I assume stern battery is ACC and the two bow facing batteries that are side-by-side should be engine batteries, as they share a ground.
Did a trace from batteries to cutoff in the stern port panel. Looks like there is 12V to 1, Both, and 2. Also, everything cranks in all positions as expected.


Am I missing something super simple here? Is there a magic continuity somewhere like a console gauge needs to be connected to make the pump work? (Doubt it, but seen weirder.)
We don’t have very detailed wiring diagrams, so I am only making educated guesses on what and where.


Much appreciated, all. We (and by we, I mean our wives) are beyond ready to get under way afloat.
 
JimT said:
If you are buying the boat have the seller fix the problem at his expense. Don't know why you are wrenching a boat you don't yet own.
Click to expand...

@JimT It's a very good friend of ours selling it (as is) for a STEAL of a deal. It is all part of the deal.
I am wrenching on it. It isn't a problem.
 
JimT said:
If you are buying the boat have the seller fix the problem at his expense. Don't know why you are wrenching a boat you don't yet own.
Click to expand...


Yea.. As @IRDaleBracey said, the boat belongs to a very good friend and is making it worth my while to get this bad boy back on the water. :) Can't wait to officially join the Sea Ray club.. When I was a kid, by Dad had a 37' Sea Ray and we had so much fun.. Ready for my kids to have the same experience.

Thank you for all of your advice.. Excited to get the point where I know enough to help others too!
 
@Nelco I'm starting to think the diagram @JimG posted in the below link is what we need to see, but that diagram has missing bits off the edge of the image.
Seems like a somewhat similar issue there too.

Also, it appears there are two oil switches and two water switches? Where are each on the block? I was testing on the oil switch at port side of engine, under head. Is the other oil switch maybe near the top? I see there is a water temp switch in fron of the carb. Is there another? So, both water and oil need to register for starter to get power?

http://www.clubsearay.com/index.php?threads/engine-alarm-buzzer.60014/#post-675287
 
1 thing ya can check. On my 98 290 i swapped out a fuel pump. Whent to start it but had no power to it. Pulled pump and bench tested and worked fine. Re installed and again no power. On the metal box on right side where your ecm is. Lift the top cover. Inside are 3 fuses. 1 is the fuse to the fuel pump. Mine looked fine but had blown in the swap out. Good luck
 
Jeff Delbuono said:
1 thing ya can check. On my 98 290 i swapped out a fuel pump. Whent to start it but had no power to it. Pulled pump and bench tested and worked fine. Re installed and again no power. On the metal box on right side where your ecm is. Lift the top cover. Inside are 3 fuses. 1 is the fuse to the fuel pump. Mine looked fine but had blown in the swap out. Good luck
Click to expand...

A fuse swap is an easy test! #FingersCrossed
 
Jeff Delbuono said:
1 thing ya can check. On my 98 290 i swapped out a fuel pump. Whent to start it but had no power to it. Pulled pump and bench tested and worked fine. Re installed and again no power. On the metal box on right side where your ecm is. Lift the top cover. Inside are 3 fuses. 1 is the fuse to the fuel pump. Mine looked fine but had blown in the swap out. Good luck
Click to expand...
Thanks @Jeff Delbuono , but please see my comment above on the fuses...

There is also no voltage present to the fuse socket on first or second toggle position.

*************************
Fuses:
Found 3 fuse block next to ECM and relays. Continuity test on all fuses passes.
Anyone have a diagram for these fuses and where they route?

Bow Facing Fuse:
Based on reference test from #1, it would seem the bow facing fuse is constant 12V. (This slot has no voltage on #2).

Middle Fuse:
Both #1 and #2 are 0V ignition off and gain 12V when toggle is in first and start position.
*************************
 
Nelco said:
I'm purchasing a 280 Sundancer and the port engine starts fine but the starboard engine seems to be having some issues.

When you move Port engine switch to first position,you hear a pump in bilge..

When you move Starboard engine switch to first position, not buzzer/alarm no pump sound.. Engine tries to start if you go to position two but fuel
Checked fuel pump and it works.

Any suggestions on what to check would be greatly appreciated.

Update: below is detailed info on everything we have tried and tested
Click to expand...
On mine I have to have the batteries on too, not just the engine switch. The same is true for the tilt and trim. This may not be how it is suppose to be but it is
 
Looks like we have forward progress...
Swapped ECM from engine to engine and #2 now primes and fires on starter fluid.
Looks like the ECM is bad. Going to have to repair or replace. @Nelco found a place that repairs them.
Anyone happen to have a Delphi 16236999 ECM laying around they want to sell? ;)

New symptom, no jets from carb on #2. Now that we got it to prime and pump, we can check the carb.
There is fuel pressure at the carb, just nothing coming out the jets.
Need to trace what triggers those now. Maybe completely clogged?
Suggestions?
 
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