The Official 450 Express Bridge Owners Club

[Forrestkk]

I’m glad you introduced this topic. I’m still trying to figure things out. We are fully winterized, but bring space heaters and stay on the boat about once a month during the winter (we’re here now). When I de-energize the solenoid in the salon panel, my port / house battery appears to discharge. When returning to the boat after a few weeks, it takes several hours before we can use the DC power. We are on shore power, but the battery charger doesn’t charge the batteries with solenoid off. Do you guys have a similar set-up? We left both solenoids energized the last time (Dec. 4th) and everything is working properly now after returning yesterday.

Keith

Hi Keith,

No, my batts charge regardless of key position or battery switch. Charge wires (and temp sensor) go directly to the batteries (through stand alone CBs).

 

[Forrestkk]

I have spent a lot of time researching, diagnosing, and fixing waste system issues. Surprising, because I can’t bear to clean a toilet at home! Here are a few things I have discovered & fixed, and suggestions:
- Pour and flush warm soapy water through the system before opening anything up. It really helps with the smell!
- Lay down some old towels everywhere. Liquid & @%$^& will drain out no matter how empty you think it is.
- A vacuum pressure gauge really helps to narrow things down, and to get an idea if you’re hitting the proper vacuum. This helped me determine I had a bad vacuum sensor switch. I had too much vacuum even though the pump kept running.
- I also had a bad elbow connection and was able to seal that.
- Yes, it’s a good idea to replace the bellows and duck bills it they are old. It’s messy, but not too difficult.
- We have been using NoFlex religiously for the last 2 years and it has really helped. No smells whatsoever. We also replace the vent filters each year.
- We also pour a gallon of dissolved NoFlex down all of our drains into the sump each time we leave during the summer. Reduces mold growth in the sump. We have switch on the sump pump so I can manually drain it all of the way down before and after our NoFlex treatment. Between this and the dehumidifier, the boat smells really good all year long!

Let me know if I can assist with anything else “down there”!

Keith

@keithmo ,

What test points are you using for the head vacuum Guage?

Kevin

 

[MarginCall]

I’m glad you introduced this topic. I’m still trying to figure things out. We are fully winterized, but bring space heaters and stay on the boat about once a month during the winter (we’re here now). When I de-energize the solenoid in the salon panel, my port / house battery appears to discharge. When returning to the boat after a few weeks, it takes several hours before we can use the DC power. We are on shore power, but the battery charger doesn’t charge the batteries with solenoid off. Do you guys have a similar set-up? We left both solenoids energized the last time (Dec. 4th) and everything is working properly now after returning yesterday.

Keith

Keith, Guess I'll find out in a couple of weeks. We buttoned her up for the next two weeks and I de-energized the solenoid switches on both port and starboard. We are on shore power, so I'll report my findings. I will say that while we were on the hook, it was a pleasant night so I didn't fire the genny and turned off all non-essential DC switches. Found my port side engine would not turn the next day. I can only assume the fridge drew it down overnight as that was about the only thing I left in the on position.
Fired up the genny and let them charge for about 20 minutes and started it right up. Learned later (via reading manual) that I should have used the "emergency start" switch, which apparently parallels port and starboard batteries.

Live and learn!

 

[RetiredSubGuy]

@Shoyrtt based on your post #20, I did some research for AQUA Marine Deck. They have the template for 450EB (attached). They do not have a local dealer in my area (CT). To self-install, I was qouted $3710 and sale price was $3225. They do not have bridge coverage. I'm thinking in the spring I will template the bridge area and send for an updated quote. I'll let know how that turns out!

Dan

 

[RetiredSubGuy]

Thanks. Lots of Simple Green, rags and bilge paint so far and I still need to detail the engines after I replaced both engine water pumps and all of the hoses. I will say adding more light helps. I switched out the four stock light bulbs for LEDs and added four more small marine lights from Amazon to brighten things up. I used the existing cockpit floor bolts to mount the brackets so it was easy. Just another project off the checklist.

View attachment 105126

@Shoyrtt do you by chance still have part# / link to the ER LED Lights you used?

 

[RetiredSubGuy]

Sorry if I get a little crazy on reply to old posts. I've got Sal Aqua Vitae on hard and wrapped for winter. Looking to start acquiring parts for winter projects! Don't want to miss a single day of next season!!!

Dan

 

[Shoyrtt]

@Shoyrtt based on your post #20, I did some research for AQUA Marine Deck. They have the template for 450EB (attached). They do not have a local dealer in my area (CT). To self-install, I was qouted $3710 and sale price was $3225. They do not have bridge coverage. I'm thinking in the spring I will template the bridge area and send for an updated quote. I'll let know how that turns out!

Dan

Dan, that looks like SeaDek at a much better price! Just take your time making the templates for the bridge. That is one advantage with the Corinthian or Infinity vinyl flooring, if you screw up like I did, you can trim and adjust it, unlike the foam. Let us know how it turns out! https://www.aquamarinedeck.com/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI5tuzlJa5_AIVYw-tBh0E4A8MEAAYASAAEgI0qfD_BwE

 

[Shoyrtt]

@Shoyrtt do you by chance still have part# / link to the ER LED Lights you used?

Dan, here are the engine room lights that I picked up on Amazon from “WFPOWER”. I tried to post a link, but it didn’t work.

 

[Shoyrtt]

I made a visit to the boat today. The west coast has had quite the wet winter so far so I needed to check things out. All is well and I happed to notice my slip neighbor Darrell had a new cockpit cover made for his 450 “Midnite Bliss”. The Admiral on his boat does all of the canvas work! She did a great job.

 

[RetiredSubGuy]

Thanks for all the input & help here. I am going to order a BA150 (HC5314) today and get the replacement process started.

Brian, sorry for not answering sooner. Had the same issue. That is the correct part as I had mine replaced right after receiving my boat. Went new based on timing of boating season. If you are not in rush, there is rebuild kits for rudder rams. About 1/4 of cost of new ram. If you go new ask for your old one and rebuild it as back up.

Dan

 

[Forrestkk]

Kevin,

RE your question on removing the strb aftercooler, I've done it a few times. It is a pain, but there are a few tricks to make it easier. On mine, I have to remove the exhaust elbow and a few sections of the exhaust (I had the exhaust re-designed, so they were dry, ie, water injected on the downhill side). They are bigger/higher, so I have to remove it to get access to the AC. You may not have to do this on yours. FYI, removing the exhaust does give you the opportunity to ck the turbo and exhaust for any issues.

Remove one of the top bolts and take it to an auto parts store and buy a few studs & bolts that are the same size (buy a few as you might drop/loose one in the process and have to make a second trip to the store (ask me how I know). Go back to the boat, screw in the stud where the bolt was and loosely secure with a bolt. Now, remove all the attached hoses, then the bolts securing the AC to the engine. This way the aftercooler will "hang there" while you unbolt all the bolts. You don't have to hang on to it while removing it. Once all the bolts are removed, you can remove the bolt on the stud and lift/wrestle it off the engine.

If you don't know, these things are heavy. I'd guess 40 lbs. Not bad normally, but the awkward access/reach makes it very heavy. Remove from the boat and follow Tony's on bench servicing (I first misspelled this to "beach", which sounds like a lot more fun).

On the re-install, use the same stud, lower/place the AC on the bracket, slide in the stud (no comments) then loosely bolt. This way you can lower/place the aftercooler on the engine and hold it there with the stud & nut. This makes reinstalling the bolts MUCH easier. Trying to hold that thing in place AND put in the bolts is a Challange.

Once the AC is hanging there, you might install one bolt loosely then re-attached the hoses. I've found that a little movement of the AC help a lot when reinstalling the hoses. I also use Permatex Aviation Sealant on all these hoses/barbs. Helps prevents leaks and makes removal next time much easier. If you don't have a hose removal tool, get one.

Once all the hose are on, install rest of the bolts, remove stud/bolt and reinstall that bolt. Put the studs/bolts in sandwich bag, label it, and put with your tools for next time.

Start the engine, ck for leaks, have a beer (or several)

It is not a complicated job, but can be frustrating. Take your time and think things through. You will need access to the outboard side going around the fanbelt end of the engine. I'm a big guy and can reach all the hose clamps I need too (barely). If you are not a "density challenged" as Moi, it will be easier.

You are asking about the Strb side, so I'm assuming you've done the port? If not, do that one first. Much easier to do and learn on.

Good luck!

Larry

@LMBoat

Larry, I did it!

Got all of the stuff out. As usual, took a bit longer than I expected. The studs helped a bunch on that strb aftercooler.

That said, I had to remove the turbos and exhausts (as one piece thanks to the turbo to elbow bolts being smoked). I am not sure I could have done it with the turbos in place. I would hate to drain the coolant every three years (running Fleetguard Blue Lifetime), but once I got the turbos off it went really quickly.

Going to have the port turbo rebuilt (it's 23 yo and has some compressor nics) and have the ACs, HXs, Charge Air Tubes, andOil Return Tubes powder coated.


Port Aftercooler, Starboard HX, both raw water pumps

Both turbos and elbows, Strb Aftercooler, and Port HX.

 

[LMBoat]

CONGRATS !!! Removing all of that is a project for sure. I've not had to remove the exhaust manifold, but imaging that is whole project by itself. I do not have to remove turbos to do my aftercoolers, but did have to remove strb turbo due to coolant leak at the exhaust connection. As you note, you do have to drain the (expensive) coolant to pull a turbo. I have had to drain coolant for a few projects. I usually just reuse the coolant unless if it time for a change.

Again, congrats! Let us know how the AC's look once you get them apart.

 

[Forrestkk]

CONGRATS !!! Removing all of that is a project for sure. I've not had to remove the exhaust manifold, but imaging that is whole project by itself. I do not have to remove turbos to do my aftercoolers, but did have to remove strb turbo due to coolant leak at the exhaust connection. As you note, you do have to drain the (expensive) coolant to pull a turbo. I have had to drain coolant for a few projects. I usually just reuse the coolant unless if it time for a change.

Again, congrats! Let us know how the AC's look once you get them apart.

Posted this on 6CTA, but my 10 year old helping me in our Driveway Cummins Marine Shop - http://www.clubsearay.com/index.php...s-6cta-450c-thread.77886/page-62#post-1379808

 

[Brett H]

I will say that while we were on the hook, it was a pleasant night so I didn't fire the genny and turned off all non-essential DC switches. Found my port side engine would not turn the next day. I can only assume the fridge drew it down overnight as that was about the only thing I left in the on position.

Perhaps the Anchor Light contributed as well? Have you changed the bulb to LED?

 

[keithmo]

@keithmo ,

What test points are you using for the head vacuum Guage?

Kevin

Hey Kevin,

You can find a lot of information on this topic on the Marine Sanitation Supply website (marinesan.com), where I pulled this diagram. I took off the inlet hose from the head (red arrow) and tested the pressure at the elbow (#17). In one instance, the pressure kept going higher with no leak, but continued to run. The VG2 vacuum switch had failed (#13, red "X"), and the replacement fixed it. On my other system, testing at the same point, the leak was at the base of the elbow. I probably created this leak when I pulled off the hose; it's an unusual place to have a leak. I ordered a replacement elbow kit, but was able to stop the leak, for now, with some silicone sealant. Note: Both of these fixes were after replacing the bellows and duck bills in both systems.

Two more points:

1. We started using Toilet Seal regularly in both heads to help keep the rubber gasket sealed -- it really works well.
2. Check out the Sealand / Dometic VacuFlush installer guide at this link: https://www.manualslib.com/manual/1609106/Sealand-Dometic-Vacuflush-Series.html#manual. Lots of great information, including an awesome troubleshooting guide starting on page 59.

I probably sound way more excited about this topic than I really am!
Keith

 

[Forrestkk]

Hey Kevin,

You can find a lot of information on this topic on the Marine Sanitation Supply website (marinesan.com), where I pulled this diagram. I took off the inlet hose from the head (red arrow) and tested the pressure at the elbow (#17). In one instance, the pressure kept going higher with no leak, but continued to run. The VG2 vacuum switch had failed (#13, red "X"), and the replacement fixed it. On my other system, testing at the same point, the leak was at the base of the elbow. I probably created this leak when I pulled off the hose; it's an unusual place to have a leak. I ordered a replacement elbow kit, but was able to stop the leak, for now, with some silicone sealant. Note: Both of these fixes were after replacing the bellows and duck bills in both systems.

Two more points:

1. We started using Toilet Seal regularly in both heads to help keep the rubber gasket sealed -- it really works well.
2. Check out the Sealand / Dometic VacuFlush installer guide at this link: https://www.manualslib.com/manual/1609106/Sealand-Dometic-Vacuflush-Series.html#manual. Lots of great information, including an awesome troubleshooting guide starting on page 59.

I probably sound way more excited about this topic than I really am!
Keith
View attachment 138953

@keithmo

Awesome, thx!

 

[MarginCall]

Perhaps the Anchor Light contributed as well? Have you changed the bulb to LED?

Honestly never thought about that, but it is NOT LED. I'll put that on my list of things to swap out. Will be at the boat next week.

 

[Jack O'Brien]

Replaced cockpit deck lighting with Husuku parts on Amazon. SS instead of chrome original seen pitted badly. Blue installed. Pretty easy little job except for off center screw holes, one side grabbing barely enough of the cutout. Two switches control these, top of bridge steps, and just inside salon door. Next up, my leaky bridge sink faucet. No shutoff valve in the Pex supply line. Sideways image, sorry.

 

[RetiredSubGuy]

Replaced cockpit deck lighting with Husuku parts on Amazon. SS instead of chrome original seen pitted badly. Blue installed. Pretty easy little job except for off center screw holes, one side grabbing barely enough of the cutout. Two switches control these, top of bridge steps, and just inside salon door. Next up, my leaky bridge sink faucet. No shutoff valve in the Pex supply line. Sideways image, sorry.
View attachment 139573

Jack, I like those lights! I was lucky and my light fixtures were in good shape. I found blue led replacement buld at local auto zone. Now I know what to get when a fixture goes bad! Looks great!

 

[Jack O'Brien]

Incidentally, my stern flag and bow burgee staffs are from www.originalswiveler.com. Flags never tangle or wrap on themselves. All SS. All size rail clamps. Make sure right diameter fixture, ordered separate from poles. Eg. Bow rail is 1 1/8". Lost prev owner bow staff in hurricane but was later found, so got my custom boat name burgee back. Was so happy with stern for last couple years, ordered the shorter bow staff and fixture. Expensive tho.