Transmission stuck need ideas

It’s my understanding there are no transmissions available right now
 
fwebster said:
My port transmission started making noise at 800 hours. The noise began as a "rattle" and gradually got worse to the point that I knew something in the gear. box was loose. I changed the fluid and strained it thru a filter and was both shocked and amazed at how much varied metal shavings were in the ATF. a lot of aluminum in particles from as big a a pencil eraser down to microscopic debris that was hard to see with the naked eye. There was also ferrous metal (bearings/shafting) and some brass from bearing retainers. There was no way I would have rebuilt that transmission since I couldn't see how on earth we could get all the metal filings out of t he transmission case. Rebuilders were quick to offer a warranty (90 days!) but with all the labor and yard cost for the haul-out, laydays while waiting on the rebuild shop, forklift charges, etc. I decided to try to find a new transmission.

The service manager at our marina had a contact at ZF and they happened to have a new ZF-85-IV of the correct ratio on the shelf.

We got a screaming deal on the new transmission and it is the replacement for the 80-IV, which was the first new and improved version of the Hurth HSW 800 with enhanced mounting for the countershaft mounts. The ZF-85-IV is even stronger than the ZF-80. I would rethink rebuilding one of the Hurth HSW-800 gears because of the design flaw that is s built in and because of the difficulty of cleaning the gear case of metal filings that are very likely there.

The other advantage for me was time. We hauled the boat out on Thursday morning @ 7:15, had the old transmission removed and on the floor in the shop at the marina at 9:00AM. I painted the starter, the new transmission and the bell housing with automotive urethane after lunch and we reinstalled the transmission in the boat Friday and splashed her before noon on Friday and went boating.
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Is the ZF 85 IV a direct replacement for the ZF 800 V1 1:1.64? Are the bolt patterns and engine mounts in the same location? Would I need to redrill stringers? It is my understanding there is 0 availability right now.
 
Riptide III said:
Is the ZF 85 IV a direct replacement for the ZF 800 V1 1:1.64? Are the bolt patterns and engine mounts in the same location? Would I need to redrill stringers? It is my understanding there is 0 availability right now.
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Plug and play as long as the gear ratio is the same. The Port gear on my 2000 400DA was originally an HSW 800 and changed to ZF85 IV. I'm not sure you will find a ZF80 IV.
https://www.tadiesels.com/img/zf/docs/ZF_85_IV.pdf
 
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ttmott said:
Plug and play as long as the gear ratio is the same. The Port gear on my 2000 400DA was originally an HSW 800 and changed to ZF85 IV. I'm not sure you will find a ZF80 IV.
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I'm trying to remember but I believe they changed the damper also; if it's that far down why not - right?
Actually now that I think about it the ZF warrantee required the damper to be changed.
 
ttmott said:
Plug and play as long as the gear ratio is the same. The Port gear on my 2000 400DA was originally an HSW 800 and changed to ZF85 IV. I'm not sure you will find a ZF80 IV.
https://www.tadiesels.com/img/zf/docs/ZF_85_IV.pdf
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Truly plug and play. We only had to change the Transmission oil cooler due to the amount of crap the Hurth HSW800 dumped into the transmission fluid. The only difference may be the ZF85-IV has solenoid shifting. The ZF guys caught that at their warehouse and they changed the new transmission to the older manual style actuators ….at no cost. My 450DA was a 1996, so I don't know if you would have that problems or not.
 
Transmission Marine out of FT Lauderdale will get you exactly what you need. Unfortunately, prices are a little different from when Frank did his
 
6F1EAB57-4B27-48F9-B891-0C4465E2C2D4.jpeg
Odd coincidence, mine and my friends trannys need work. I had the yard put the two boats next to each other so I could do his at the same time busy day!
1E107B41-58B3-4A9A-881E-D0862958B9B5.jpeg
 
Riptide III said:
Odd coincidence, mine and my friends trannys need work. I had the yard put the two boats next to each other so I could do his at the same time busy day!
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Have the 3116 with ZF 85 IV on a pallet. The transmission is definitely leaking... a lot. I think the output shaft seal was damaged during all of the machinations and busted knuckles required to get the stern tube dripless seal shaft coupler out.
The question is how difficult is it to replace the shaft seal? From what I've read the case needs to be split, so with 1000 hours on it, might as well do the rebuild kit. The fluid analysis (attached) came back green.
I'm in Delaware but happy to put it in the back of the truck and drive South to Virginia or the same distance North, to have someone do the work.
Thoughts?
 

Attachments

  • 20220511 Starboard transmission ZV85IV fluid analysis.pdf
    114.1 KB · Views: 61
Do you think somehow a tool got back in there and damaged the seal?
If that's the case and the output shaft endplay is still in spec then you can remove the output flange, carefully pry out the seal and then install a new seal then reinstall the output flange with the correct sockethead capscrew sealant and torque.
 
ttmott said:
Do you think somehow a tool got back in there and damaged the seal?
If that's the case and the output shaft endplay is still in spec then you can remove the output flange, carefully pry out the seal and then install a new seal then reinstall the output flange with the correct sockethead capscrew sealant and torque.
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I don't think it's the bow side (forward) output flange seal, item 5 in the picture. I believe it's the stern side (rear) seal, item 30. Will separate the transmission from the engine, clean everything then put some fluid in it, to see where it's leaking.
@Riptide III is there a reason you undid the larger bell housing plate from the engine, leaving the transmission bolted to the plate, vs removing the transmission bolts (items 26 in the diagram)?
I've got corroded bolts on the plate, so would prefer to remove the transmission mount bolts (items 26) first.
 
SCFoster said:
I don't think it's the bow side (forward) output flange seal, item 5 in the picture. I believe it's the stern side (rear) seal, item 30. Will separate the transmission from the engine, clean everything then put some fluid in it, to see where it's leaking.
@Riptide III is there a reason you undid the larger bell housing plate from the engine, leaving the transmission bolted to the plate, vs removing the transmission bolts (items 26 in the diagram)?
I've got corroded bolts on the plate, so would prefer to remove the transmission mount bolts (items 26) first.
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Yes. Very few of the transmissions have studs on the plate. There is no way to get inside the bell housing to hold the bolt and just remove the tranny. That said, you have to remove the entire plate. If the bottom bolt head on the plate is rusted beyond use, cut it out with cutoff wheel. It will only take a minute. After you remove the plate and tranny you will have a half inch left of the bolt to put vise grips on. Both of mine came off without heat.
 
Riptide III said:
Yes. Very few of the transmissions have studs on the plate. There is no way to get inside the bell housing to hold the bolt and just remove the tranny. That said, you have to remove the entire plate. If the bottom bolt head on the plate is rusted beyond use, cut it out with cutoff wheel. It will only take a minute. After you remove the plate and tranny you will have a half inch left of the bolt to put vise grips on. Both of mine came off without heat.
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Thanks. Did you do the work yourself or if not, where did you send them?
 
I removed and installed. I had a local shop that rebuilds. Very popular place in New England. “Nopper Marine”. Great place.
 
Riptide III said:
I removed and installed. I had a local shop that rebuilds. Very popular place in New England. “Nopper Marine”. Great place.
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Looking for similar between NJ and MD. There has to be someone between North East MD and Annapolis that does this.
Was referred to Authority Marine by ZF, but they're way up there in S. Amboy NJ.
 
Try T and S marine in Crisfield, I know they do engines and transmissions, not sure about ZF
 
doozie said:
Try T and S marine in Crisfield, I know they do engines and transmissions, not sure about ZF
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Spoke to them about the engine. That's a serious haul (approx 3 hrs) down there. Was hoping to find something in Annapolis.
 
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