Open Array to Radome

have many of you guys went from an open array antenna to a dome set up? I'm in the early stages of replacing oringinal electronics and the price of the open array is way out of my budget. I have to say that I think going with a dome will change the look of the boat a bit. I do like the look of the array.

Anyone who has an older 380 or 410 da that has done this, please give me your input.
Also, pics appreciated.
Thanks

My same question for my 360. 1/4 of the radar scan has stopped showing and the whole R70 system has pasted its prime. Will be watching for info.

I too share the same sentiments.

I keep thinking one of the manufacturers will break ranks and offer a great looking open array style at a small premium over the dome style. I’m not sure why the gap between a decent dome style radar and the entry of the open array is $3000-$4000.

I just made that change from a Raymarine HD Digital open 4' array to their new Quantum 2 Doppler radome. The reason for it is that I upgraded all the electronics and was told originally that the HD open should integrate, but it didn't. So the Raymarine tech said to send the open array in to them for repair, until I started adding up the costs to repair a ten year old unit. It wasn't a lot more $$ to get the new Doppler dome, so that's the route I took. We just finished a 900 NM trip of Lake Huron and Georgian Bay so here's the report.
What you get with the open array is a slightly sharper shoreline image when you overlay the radar on your chart. You will get longer range plus "bird strikes" but on the Great Lakes those points are not that important to me.
What I wanted was a dependable radar that worked well close-in, like in fog and in traffic. So what I can report to you is that the dome Quantum 2 Doppler filled all the needs. Still a very good shoreline image as well. No warm up (no magnetron) and nothing whirring around up top. Sure that big antenna looks cool and "big boy", but get over it.
What do you gain with the dome/Doppler radar is amazing target differentiation. Set the range to two miles in a crowded area (we have lots of freighters on the move), and green objects show no threat and red shows a potential problem. When married to AIS it makes for quick and easy target differentiation. Everything integrates right on your chart display if you want. Maybe in coastal waters an open array would be best but here the Doppler dome works well for much less investment.
Hope that helps. I plan to have the HD open array fixed, but only to sell it.

Jaws said:

Sure that big antenna looks cool and "big boy", but get over it.

Click to expand...

When you get to boats that are over 40 feet in length a dome just does not look proportionate to the boat. Just like a six foot open array would not look balanced on a 340.

I do hope someone can tell us why manufacturers do not make an affordable three or 4 foot open array radar?

Agreed Mike, but take a look at all the 40+ foot European yachts that have domes. Yes, sacrificing the looks of the open array bugged me initially but the new domes have many advantages plus being less complex and much less expensive for comparable performance. I just think you are going to see more domes on boats in the future that previously had arrays. Just my opinion.

I second James advice about the "look" of the radar. Get over it. If your buying a radar as a boat ornament and money is no object, an open array does look cool. However, if your buying a serious navigation tool, then you need to define your needs and buy the piece of equipment to meet those needs.

I boiled it down to this. If you are primarily concerned with close in navigation, the domes (especially the CHIRP and Doppler) have a lot of benefits over the open array units, not only in lower cost, but a lot more performance and data that is useful. If you are concerned about long distance (>24nm) weather and detecting birds for fishing, an open array may be justified but with a loss of the CHIRP and Doppler benefits/performance.

The new CHIRP/Doppler Units are just as good as an open array at the often used ranges (<6 nm). Open arrays will have better small/close target differentiation at longer distances. Keep in mind radars are line of sight and can't cant "see" over the horizon and are range limited on our boats due to mounting heights, so you wont get much extra information out of a 48 or 72NM radar regardless of your antenna size (more likely we are limited to a useful range of about 10-12 nm when detecting larger ships in open water). Additionally, the open arrays can not see close in as they have to turn on/off to send/receive creating a blind band close in.

I peplaced a RL80C/4' open array and moved to the Axiom/Quantum 2 dome. My needs were similar to James...I needed "close in" target identification and the Doppler function tells you right away what targets are important (red and moving towards you or green moving away). The target separation is night and day better than the older open array it replaced. I can see a string of 12" diameter buoys 2' tall out of the water at a mile+ range. I can pick up and track multiple jet skis riding in a pack at 2-3 miles. The new technology has made all of this possible at $2k. Add in AIS and Augmented Reality and your situational awareness is greatly increased.

I think technology has made open arrays on small/medium cruising pleasure craft a thing of the past. The CHIRP and Doppler units are just that good, getting better, and are affordable. Larger boats and fishing boats will continue to use open array technology or employ both types of units.

As for looks, I put mine on a new mount and upgraded that crappy ass all round light and think it looks great!!! Works great too!
Dave

dtfeld said:

I second James advice about the "look" of the radar. Get over it. If your buying a radar as a boat ornament and money is no object, an open array does look cool. However, if your buying a serious navigation tool, then you need to define your needs and buy the piece of equipment to meet those needs.

I boiled it down to this. If you are primarily concerned with close in navigation, the domes (especially the CHIRP and Doppler) have a lot of benefits over the open array units, not only in lower cost, but a lot more performance and data that is useful. If you are concerned about long distance (>24nm) weather and detecting birds for fishing, an open array may be justified but with a loss of the CHIRP and Doppler benefits/performance.

The new CHIRP/Doppler Units are just as good as an open array at the often used ranges (<6 nm). Open arrays will have better small/close target differentiation at longer distances. Keep in mind radars are line of sight and can't cant "see" over the horizon and are range limited on our boats due to mounting heights, so you wont get much extra information out of a 48 or 72NM radar regardless of your antenna size (more likely we are limited to a useful range of about 10-12 nm when detecting larger ships in open water). Additionally, the open arrays can not see close in as they have to turn on/off to send/receive creating a blind band close in.

I peplaced a RL80C/4' open array and moved to the Axiom/Quantum 2 dome. My needs were similar to James...I needed "close in" target identification and the Doppler function tells you right away what targets are important (red and moving towards you or green moving away). The target separation is night and day better than the older open array it replaced. I can see a string of 12" diameter buoys 2' tall out of the water at a mile+ range. I can pick up and track multiple jet skis riding in a pack at 2-3 miles. The new technology has made all of this possible at $2k. Add in AIS and Augmented Reality and your situational awareness is greatly increased.

I think technology has made open arrays on small/medium cruising pleasure craft a thing of the past. The CHIRP and Doppler units are just that good, getting better, and are affordable. Larger boats and fishing boats will continue to use that technology or employ both types of units.

As for looks, I put mine on a new mount and upgraded that crappy ass all round light and think it looks great!!! Works great too!
Dave

View attachment 89679

Click to expand...

It may just be that I have to get over that. LOL I do think your install looks very clean and better than most I’ve seen.

MonacoMike said:

It may just be that I have to get over that. LOL I do think your install looks very clean and better than most I’ve seen.

Click to expand...

Thank you!! I got the idea and knocked off a couple dock neighbors who had this set up on new SR's and Monterey's. I think it looks good (the radar that is, not the Euro trash boats he he) and at a fraction of what they paid!

So a follow-up question, I admit I am not very well-versed on what the systems can do, what are the major differences between these two and functionality?

https://www.boemarine.com/garmin-gmr-424-xhd2-open-array-radar-pedestal.html

https://www.boemarine.com/garmin-gmr-24-xhd-radar-w-15m-cable.html

Not sure if that is the best 24 unit Garman sells but that’s what I was intending to compare to the 4 foot open array.

are you guys actually saying that the open array loses some functionality that the 24 would have? What are the trade-offs between the two?

In the Garmin line, the newer solid state radars are in their Fantom line. These are the solid state, pulse compression with doppler technology.. You can choose anywhere from a 18" dome for $2k up to a 6' Open Array for $8500 There is a 24" Fantom dome as well that I would guess gets you slightly better target separation for $2800, but I'd have to research that. All of these get you what Garmin Calls MotionScope which is doppler technology.

The HD versions are more tradional magnetron based and come in the same 18" dome to 6' open array in roughly the same (or better price points). These have some features, Bird/WX modes, 24/48 rpm and various power outputs that might be better suited to your needs.

Make sure your MFD will support the radar your want to install! Maybe as simple as a firmware upgrade.

Interesting to me is that Garmin has a solid state, doppler capable (MotionScope) open array. When I was researching, these did not exist, but I think there is somewhat of an arms race going on with Marine radars and they keep getting more and better choices across all manufacturers. Good for Us!!

Well since my current Budget does not allow for this it may be even better when I can in the next few years.

That Fantom 24 looks really like a really great unit. Small, compact, low power consumption, better beam width than the 24" from Raymarine...

Budget allowing....sigh.

dtfeld said:

In the Garmin line, the newer solid state radars are in their Fantom line. These are the solid state, pulse compression with doppler technology.. You can choose anywhere from a 18" dome for $2k up to a 6' Open Array for $8500 There is a 24" Fantom dome as well that I would guess gets you slightly better target separation for $2800, but I'd have to research that. All of these get you what Garmin Calls MotionScope which is doppler technology.

The HD versions are more tradional magnetron based and come in the same 18" dome to 6' open array in roughly the same (or better price points). These have some features, Bird/WX modes, 24/48 rpm and various power outputs that might be better suited to your needs.

Make sure your MFD will support the radar your want to install! Maybe as simple as a firmware upgrade.

Interesting to me is that Garmin has a solid state, doppler capable (MotionScope) open array. When I was researching, these did not exist, but I think there is somewhat of an arms race going on with Marine radars and they keep getting more and better choices across all manufacturers. Good for Us!!

Click to expand...

Very helpful! That 4 foot MotionScope is $8K. WOW!

Just keep in ind under the hood, they are all open array, the dome just happens to cover up (and keep salt and other nasties) out of the 18" or 2' open array....

GREAT info guys! I'm starting my research for new electronics as my Ray C70 & radar unit is well past its prime. I have a hugh amount of catching up to do with all the advancements in technology.

The scanner was replaced on my boat last year. I did all of the research and quite frankly a dome would have filled the need for 95% of the boating we do. The recent solid state scanners are amazing in their capability to separate and discern targets especially in the analysis of moving targets. For example the complexities of MARPA in the previous generations of scanners is now a normal operating feature of the digital doppler units; pretty cool.... One thing to note is in previous generations a scan is accomplished each rotation of the antenna so target direction and speed is determined through multiple antenna rotations and consequently the speed of antenna rotation is related to how fast one can understand the environment around the boat; the pulse digital technology resolves the target direction and velocity each scan which is huge in real time evaluation. The real difference is the width of the antenna is proportional to the display resolution and detail of what is being scanned, close up or far away. My biggest issue at night is seeing the channel markers and what is around them. Our local fishermen have a propensity to cluster around the markers and resolving that detail is important to me. That is a significant safety concern operating my boat. Quite frankly, with the enclosure around the bridge on my boat you can't see well enough at dusk and at night which is one of my bigger concerns. So, I made the call to replace with another open array and installed the Garmin Fantom 54. I don't have much operational time using it but it's capability to separate targets is what was needed. If budget is your driving factor then don't even look at these units; like I said an enclosed scanner would have accomplished almost all I needed.

I agree with TTMOTT. It really has less to do with distance (that factor is wattage) and more to do with Beam width. The open array has almost double the resolution on beam width. So up close or far away it can tell if a radar return is one object or 2 much better then done units simply because of the ledger array.

I use our radar I’m here in Galveston bay, a commercial port. Traffic is heavy and I rely on it as a tool. I don’t care what it looks like but wouldn’t do anything except open array. Now I do have Doppler but that is an entirely different subject and personally I would put open array abound Doppler technology.

I’m also a Furuno fan so at least give them a look.