Buying 2001 410DA 454 gas vs. Diesel

Stee6043 said:
I come only from a place of my own reality. My best ever year was 88 hours on my 400. That included being on the boat every weekend May-October, most spent around our local harbor/lakes and two week long trips. One across Lake Michigan to Chicago and another to Leland, 100+ miles north. I covered a lot of Lake Michigan that year...or so I felt. I'd have to get my receipts but I'd imagine my full summer fuel bill was $7-8k. Not even remotely close to the numbers being tossed around here.

I just can't imagine someone non-commercial running anywhere near 100 hours at planning speeds in a year on the Great Lakes. You'd be doing laps around the lakes...all summer long :)
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We used the boat every weekend and some during the week last summer. May-October. Put on 66 hours and fuel was $5400.
 
Stee6043 said:
I come only from a place of my own reality. My best ever year was 88 hours on my 400. That included being on the boat every weekend May-October, most spent around our local harbor/lakes and two week long trips. One across Lake Michigan to Chicago and another to Leland, 100+ miles north. I covered a lot of Lake Michigan that year...or so I felt. I'd have to get my receipts but I'd imagine my full summer fuel bill was $7-8k. Not even remotely close to the numbers being tossed around here.

I just can't imagine someone non-commercial running anywhere near 100 hours at planning speeds in a year on the Great Lakes. You'd be doing laps around the lakes...all summer long :)
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Geez guys... 100 hours simply makes the math easy to follow....

100 hours difference = $11,000
50 hours difference = $5,500
25 hours difference = $2,750

Just providing real world numbers on virtually identical boats. Choose whatever propulsion meets your needs.
 
Steve S said:
Geez guys... 100 hours simply makes the math easy to follow....

100 hours difference = $11,000
50 hours difference = $5,500
25 hours difference = $2,750

Just providing real world numbers on virtually identical boats. Choose whatever propulsion meets your needs.
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I know...I know...I agree. I don't think anyone was trying to shoot any messengers here. But without context this thread is VERY under-informing. Some poor soul comes into this conversation thinking us gassers are spending $20k a year in fuel? That's insane. If we could afford that much in fuel every year we'd have nicer boats :)
 
When we had a 28 footer we drove it at 22 knots. It burn 1 liter a minute so 16 gallons an hour. We both had jobs and went out for 3 weeks a summer. We are now retired. going slow is a lot simpler and less costly.
 
Far57 said:
I plan on mostly weekend trips on the Great Lakes. Not retired yet, but would love a few weeks a summer exploring. 100 hours maybe a season.

thanks for the quick response everyone.
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I have always believed for me that one needed to be over 100 hours per season to justify the cost of a diesel. Another consideration is consistent use, gas engines appear to me to be able to take 10 hours one year, 100 the next, and 20 the next and so on. Diesels want to be ran and need to be ran to keep everything in shape, if you are not running them they are not happy, and not happy equals cost...
 
Like I said, diesel, diesel, diesel.
I was hoping for more objective comments. I do appreciate them all though. Everyone has there experiences behind them and I am gaining so much from most of the threads.
Thanks to you all.
 
Far57 said:
I am trying to find someone to look at engines also, Port Clinton area, any recommendations?
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Sorry I missed this part of the question... Dubbert’s is very good for the engine survey. I haven’t personally used them but have lots of friends that do...family owned just a good group of people

are you buying the boat in the area?
 
Tried Dubbert’s and like everyone else, and most Surveyors right now, no luck. Everyone is backed up 2-4 weeks. A friend called in a favor and I found a surveyor. He is trying to find a mechanic for me.
It’s frustrating. You really have to be patient these days with everything. COVID has everything screwed up. But I am working hard and getting lucky. Just hope the surveys go well after all this.
Buying in area, but moving to St. Clair for summer dockage. Been a long dream to do this so I am ok with some heavy lifting.
 
Far57 said:
Tried Dubbert’s and like everyone else, and most Surveyors right now, no luck. Everyone is backed up 2-4 weeks. A friend called in a favor and I found a surveyor. He is trying to find a mechanic for me.
It’s frustrating. You really have to be patient these days with everything. COVID has everything screwed up. But I am working hard and getting lucky. Just hope the surveys go well after all this.
Buying in area, but moving to St. Clair for summer dockage. Been a long dream to do this so I am ok with some heavy lifting.
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Sounds good good luck...we were up in St Clair at Belle Maer and Jefferson Beach ..... nice area up there. Get’r floating !!
 
Best advice I ever got was buy your last boat first. A 41' ft boat is on the edge of gas/diesel divide and as you can tell either will likely provide you a great ride. As far as cost, I would bet the actual ownership costs are fairly similar with the advantage to diesel as you increase the annual hours/ or run longer distances. The break even point will depend on a lot of factors. Beyond fuel usage/cost, there is the issue of not only purchase price, but also resale value. The true cost of ownership can only be known after you sell the boat. Diesel boats will be a little more in demand, if similarly maintained.

One reason to own a diesel version is the range of the boat. A diesel boat usually gives you a fairly decent size advantage in range (especially considering a reserve fuel safety margin).

If you would like/need a diesel, you can drop back a model year or two and probably find a price point you can live with. You likely can get a larger version for the same money as well.

There are older 40'-42'diesels @ $65K and there are newer once at $300k. Gas runs about the same range, but diesels outnumber gas 5-1.
 
Oh and the real cost of boat ownership is the bar tab. $$$$$$$$$$!!
 
dtfeld said:
Oh and the real cost of boat ownership is the bar tab. $$$$$$$$$$!!
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Lol, of course, the best part!

thanks for the gvd “big” picture. Makes very good sense. I feel better informed now.
 
I just looked at my Fuel usage. I had the boat in FL for 6 months, then on an inland lake since. Its a 2001 410 w/ 3126's 350 hp. Purchased Feb 2018. I've put 230 hrs on the engines, burned 1276 gallons of diesel at a total cost of $3537.02.

We cocktail cruise a lot (1000 rpm @ 3-4 gal/hr and 7-7.5 kts.), so that works out to 5.5 gal/hr including generator use and I average $15.40 per hour in fuel cost.

As I mentioned, the most expensive part for me is the bar tab!!
 
dtfeld said:
Oh and the real cost of boat ownership is the bar tab. $$$$$$$$$$!!
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Marina Jacks in the 80's. Dock fee, 400/month. Bar tab, 700/month. I had to move out. The only reason the Hyatt was better was because a friend of mine in Beau Ceil couldn't fit his 70 footer in the assigned slip, so he gave it to me for 1 beer per year, on 4th of July.
I use diesel for "let's go to the Bahamas", and gas for "let's go to Jewfish". Zero difference on those programs. The Post got 1/3 to 1/2 MPG at 2000 rpm for 400 miles at a time.
Speed costs money. Mic drop............
 
But you know, if ya gotta ask how much $$$, you can afford it.

Solution...Don't ask.
 
Don't discount safety; these boats hold a lot of fuel and the fuel system are comparatively complex with a lot of valves and hoses. Then add the large volume of the engine rooms/bilges and the additional hazards during fueling. A gasoline leak or spill in the engine room is a hugely bad situation; a diesel leak is a mess to clean up... These things drive me away from gasoline as a fuel in the larger boats.
Then there is the carbon monoxide issue with a gasoline generator running, especially running all night....
I'm not saying gasoline is unsafe; it just requires additional prudence and caution.
 
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Far57 said:
Like I said, diesel, diesel, diesel.
I was hoping for more objective comments. I do appreciate them all though. Everyone has there experiences behind them and I am gaining so much from most of the threads.
Thanks to you all.
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More objective? Hole smokes. This is the most objective, most civil diesel vs gas thread I've seen around here in a long time!!
 
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