Vacuflush losing vacuum after duckbill/bellows replacement

Thanks @bbwhitejr

Tackled this SH*TTY job yday.
I had the bellows replaced last year and decided to not replace it. So in reality this was just replacing the duckbills.
It's a nasty job, no two ways about it, but not difficult.
I took the entire J-Pump body off (after removing the motor) to work on it outside of the engine room.

This did the trick, once all back together, no more pump cycling.
Murphy's law for me, I dropped the last of the 4 motor mounting screws down into the bellows chamber...
Got it out with a pair of needle nose without damaging the bellows.
Good safety tip, stuff some paper towels down into that opening to prevent it from happening..

Shaps said:

Tackled this SH*TTY job yday.
I had the bellows replaced last year and decided to not replace it. So in reality this was just replacing the duckbills.
It's a nasty job, no two ways about it, but not difficult.
I took the entire J-Pump body off (after removing the motor) to work on it outside of the engine room.

This did the trick, once all back together, no more pump cycling.
Murphy's law for me, I dropped the last of the 4 motor mounting screws down into the bellows chamber...
Got it out with a pair of needle nose without damaging the bellows.
Good safety tip, stuff some paper towels down into that opening to prevent it from happening..

Click to expand...

I do remember dropping the screw. The very last one out of the 4. Paper towels are a great idea.

Bennett

Anyone done this on a 2002-2007 Sundancer 300?
I can't get to the boat just yet but planning the job using photos I took... It's not clear to me how to access the duckbills between the holding tank and the pump. Is it necessary to unbolt the accumulator from the bilge floor? Is it easier doing it that way?

Deak said:

Anyone done this on a 2002-2007 Sundancer 300?
I can't get to the boat just yet but planning the job using photos I took... It's not clear to me how to access the duckbills between the holding tank and the pump. Is it necessary to unbolt the accumulator from the bilge floor? Is it easier doing it that way?

Click to expand...

You probably have a VG-2 vacuum generator. it has 1 1/2" duckbills. Google it and you will find some great pics on the Dometic website. The VG-4 has 2" duckbills...

Deak said:

Anyone done this on a 2002-2007 Sundancer 300?
I can't get to the boat just yet but planning the job using photos I took... It's not clear to me how to access the duckbills between the holding tank and the pump. Is it necessary to unbolt the accumulator from the bilge floor? Is it easier doing it that way?

Click to expand...

Assuming @carterchapman is correct
Check out the diagram:
https://marinesan.com/vacuflush/vacuflush-pump-generator-parts-diagrams/vg2-12-24/

they are also very helpful if you call.

Shaps said:

Assuming @carterchapman is correct
Check out the diagram:
https://marinesan.com/vacuflush/vacuflush-pump-generator-parts-diagrams/vg2-12-24/

they are also very helpful if you call.

Click to expand...

Thanks, I have seen that. The output hose from the pump can be oriented in different ways, my issue is specific to how the tank is installed in the 300. Until the boat comes out of storage I can't inspect myself to figure it out, wondered if someone had experience.

Deak said:

Thanks, I have seen that. The output hose from the pump can be oriented in different ways, my issue is specific to how the tank is installed in the 300. Until the boat comes out of storage I can't inspect myself to figure it out, wondered if someone had experience.

Click to expand...

My forward heads vacuflush toilet was working fine, just had a little leak, so I swapped out both upper and lower ball valve seals and floor flange and now I can’t get the pump to stop running and of course the bowl won’t flush.
Any advice on what could be the cause?

Went through this yesterday. Couple of years ago our vacuflush system started giving us some warnings. After a flush, the pump would keep cycling for quite some time. Last weekend it went on for over 20 minutes, the admiral didn't hear it still going...I walked down the dock..asked her "How long ago did you go to the bathroom"..she answered "about 25 minutes ago".

ACK!
Lift the deck plate and reach down and unplugged the pump motor...it was scalding hot.

Ordered the rebuild kit from marinesan....shipped SO FAST.

Tackled it yesterday.
Greased thing heavily, got the lube tube with the parts.

That morning I put a little bleach down the toilet, couple of flushes, and then a few flushes with about 1/4 cup each of dawn soap...

Called pumpout boat...got pumped out.
I found out my system was failing to get enough pressure to evacuate the line going from "out" to the holding tank...I was prepared though, had several plastic bags, pulled the hose off slowly...caught it all...yup, the hose was still full.

The "odor" was not offensively strong, so I'm guessing the pre treatment helped a bit.

Like Shap said above...that 4th bolt/washer, for the motor...the motors arm parks in the same spot all the time, blocking the bottom right screwhole. Took me several tries..and having it fall into the bellows, before I got smart and stuffed a rag into the bellows to keep it from falling in.

I did lube the seals of the bills ...but now I'm second guessing if I overtightened as I threaded the parts back together, I may go back down and "relax" each with a slight turn back.

One thing I noticed....over the years, typically the pump would do about 20 maybe 25 cycles after a flush.
Soon as I put everything back together, had wifey flush the system a few times, and it was consistently 60-65 cycles. It does not run unless you flush it, so it doesn't appear to be leaking. Just...seems to take more cycles until it stops. I'm hoping the system will settle down, will pay attention to it when we go back mid week for a long weekend. Wonder if I bumped the pressure switch in a way that affected it...is that switch adjustable? There was a bit of cursing and fits going on when I was dropping that 4th bolt/washer for the motor..down into the bellows...

@YeOldeStonecat
How many seconds does it take for your pump to stop cycling?
I recall reading somewhere (though I could be just making it up) that it could take between 30 seconds to a minute for the system to build sufficient vacuum.
My forward head, which has the longer run takes about 45 seconds while the aft head takes about 30-35. I've never counted the actual cycles.

Shaps said:

@YeOldeStonecat
How many seconds does it take for your pump to stop cycling?
I recall reading somewhere (though I could be just making it up) that it could take between 30 seconds to a minute for the system to build sufficient vacuum.
My forward head, which has the longer run takes about 45 seconds while the aft head takes about 30-35. I've never counted the actual cycles.

Click to expand...

The "cycles" seem to be about 1 second each...so I'll say it's about a minute if it's about 60-65 cycles, and I seem to recall prior to the "replacement"...they were a little under 30 seconds.

Hmmm.
doubling the time is would bother me too. I would think a blockage would have the opposite effect, shortening the duration of the cycle.
Once, it does shut off, it stays off?
If that is the case, I agree it could be the pressure switch may be the culprit.
I'd probably live with it for a while and see how the behavior changes over time. But definitely keep it on a short leash, so to speak.

Shaps said:

Once, it does shut off, it stays off?

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It does stay off....yes. At least, for that afternoon...I completed the job around 2pm yesterday...was on/around boat for another 3 or so hours. Back home for a couple of days, should be back at boat from Wednesday on til next week, so will be paying attention to every flush. I'm hoping things just need to "settle in"...and hopefully she'll be back to ~30 cycles.

I'll also slightly back loosen the connections...for fear that I overcranked them and torqued the duckbills. But I would think that if the duckbills were distorted from over tightening, it would not shut off cycling...or..frequently cycle out of the blue (without any toilet flushing).

If it isnt cycling..... me.... I would not touch the duckbills... Thinking sealed is sealed.

So it ended up being the duck bills. The forward head's VG-4 vacuum generator is in the most inconvenient location to get to in the engine room on this boat and therefore don't think it has been maintained regularly by the prior owner. I replaced the bellows and all four duck bills on it and it now cycles for 27 seconds before shutting down. One head problem solved!

Since I had a slight leak on the aft head's bowl, I decided to replace the seal and floor flange gasket on that bowl just to find that the leak was coming from the water supplies check valve grommet at the back of the bowl and was running down the water supply hose making it appear that the floor flange gasket was leaking, so I replaced both bowls check valves and their grommets.

Ironically, as I'm cleaning up, the aft head's vacuum generator turns on for about 30-seconds. I'll be changing those duck bills this weekend with the hope of not having any head problems for a while. Fortunately, neither of these systems have been used yet and are still clean from the winterization process at the end of last season, so there was hardly any smell!

Captsteve427 said:

So it ended up being the duck bills. The forward head's VG-4 vacuum generator is in the most inconvenient location to get to in the engine room on this boat and therefore don't think it has been maintained regularly by the prior owner. I replaced the bellows and all four duck bills on it and it now cycles for 27 seconds before shutting down. One head problem solved!

Since I had a slight leak on the aft head's bowl, I decided to replace the seal and floor flange gasket on that bowl just to find that the leak was coming from the water supplies check valve grommet at the back of the bowl and was running down the water supply hose making it appear that the floor flange gasket was leaking, so I replaced both bowls check valves and their grommets.

Ironically, as I'm cleaning up, the aft head's vacuum generator turns on for about 30-seconds. I'll be changing those duck bills this weekend with the hope of not having any head problems for a while. Fortunately, neither of these systems have been used yet and are still clean from the winterization process at the end of last season, so there was hardly any smell!

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Well done...
Still a shtty job...