Bad day on the Chesapeake Bay

Every survey I've had on used boats equipped with the automatic halon (or similar gas), four in all, my surveyor always remarked on the report the out of inspection date on the Halon bottle. Like most, I usually just let it go, and my insurance company never said boo!

My last purchase, the first time I bought from the dealer stock, I 'required' that the selling dealer inspect the tank. They replaced the whole bottle. I don't remember the details, but I think they said it was just easier and cheaper to do it that way. I also think they said it cost like $1500!!!
 
Four Suns said:
One of the million dollar questions that I have is about this Halon system... I look at the bottle and there is an inspection requirement on it and I've never had it inspected. I've talked to Vane Bros. who does my life raft certificate/repack every year and they won't touch it... nor did they have a recommendation on who to go to. What does everyone else do? I've "read" that even if the pressure gauge shows "green", it may not work after a certain period of time.

It would really suck having a boat sink or catch on fire. I like my 480 DB... I don't want to buy another used one as it won't be as nice as mine....
Click to expand...

I just had mine checked and certified last week. There are about 3 specialty fire supply type places that do them here in Ft. Lauderdale. They inspected the nozzles and lines. They removed the tank and weighed it. My insurance company gave me gave me a binder but only for 60 days without the certification.

The cost was $300.

I had a gas engine boat catch fire with a halon system. It didn't do a thing. the boat burned to the water line.
 
Mine need to be serviced when I purchaased the boat. It showed up in the survey. Newport Boats, one of Largest Sea Ray dealers here in SoCal, wanted $700. My shipyard did it for $150.
 
Sorry to hear this and glad hes OK.

BTW; On this forum I recall seeing a newer 52 cooked as well.
 
Gary,

I've been told that up here in Northern Virginia, several of the fire extinguisher companies will inspect and test the bottle. If you disconnect and bring the bottle to them, I've been told the cost is under $20.

Mike
 
comsnark said:
Not to quibble, but do the new agents work?

If they work, then I submit the choice is not between

(Ozone friendly with boat burned) vs (Ozone damagaing with fire out)

but rather

(Ozone friendly with fire out) vs (Ozone unfriendly with fire out)

The question Frank raises is very relevant: Was the system properly designed?
Click to expand...



I appreciate the distinction...I was not commenting that Halon was better or worse than the new agents ..... just the government's short-sided view of its application on a boat. I'm sure some wonk in the government thought all we did was set off our Halon systems on a regular basis just so we could see how they work. This is the kind of nonsense that makes me wonder why any portion of my taxes pays their salaries.

-John
 
John: I concur with your view.

There was another thread on this forum regarding portable fire extinguishers. I was similarly unconvinced regarding the inspection / replacement cycle on these devices.

I imagine one big issue regarding the halon system is the "triggering mechanism". Having the right "weight" of halon is irrelevant if it won't release. How would one even test it? On my boat there is a sprinkler type gizmo . . do you just periodically replace it? My bottle's pressure indicator shows "green".
 
According to the 2002 410 Express Cruiser Parts Manual this is the fire suppression system he had on board:

1620582 HALON SYS, AUTOMATIC/MAN (1301 HALON) 500CF
598128 HALON CABLE, MANUAL PULL CABLE 13'
1148857 HALON SYS, ENG INTRUPT/RESTRT 12V 5-CKT
(DIESEL OPTION)
1266790 FIRE EXT SYS, FM200 500CF GAS/DSL-MAN/AUTO

This was a diesel boat so it appears to have an engine stop incorporated into the trigger circuit. I might find out more news tonight about the specifics. I'm really curious if the suppression system was triggered. His system also appears to have had a manual pull option as well.

-John
 
To ensure the fire suppression system is fully charged, the cylinder needs to be removed and weighed. Years ago, BOAT/US stores had the required scales. Those are long gone. The process is simple. You weight the cylinder and compare the reading with the spec on the cylinder. If it's too light, it needs to be recharged. But since there is a heavy tax on 1301 and 1211, just as there is on R-12, it's going to probably be cheaper to replace and 1301 or 1211 system with a newer cylinder.

I have an old (21 years old) 1211 cylinder in my office. There you go.
FireExtingusher.jpg


Halon stores as a liquid. Thus the pressure is nearly always the same. The state of charge can not be determined by pressure. Thus the label as it appears above. Kind of related. While Halon stores in the cylinder as a liquified gas 1301 discharges as a gas. 1211 discharges as a liquid. Most fixed systems were 1301 and portable ones that were to be aimed at a fire were 1211. FE 241, discharges as a liquid and is used for both fixed and handheld units, I think.

Best regards,
Frank
 
Last edited:
comsnark said:
John: I concur with your view.

There was another thread on this forum regarding portable fire extinguishers. I was similarly unconvinced regarding the inspection / replacement cycle on these devices.

I imagine one big issue regarding the halon system is the "triggering mechanism". Having the right "weight" of halon is irrelevant if it won't release. How would one even test it? On my boat there is a sprinkler type gizmo . . do you just periodically replace it? My bottle's pressure indicator shows "green".
Click to expand...

The bottle has to be removed to be tested. There is a Shrader valve which is on the control valve that the tester uses to determine the actual pressure in the bottle. There doesn't appear to be a lot of specific guidelines the Fire Suppression companies follow. Some will test, others "top off" the charge (using the Shrader valve), others sell you a replacement bottle.

I suppose experience may be the guiding factor here. I hear about a lot more boats burning to the water line than I hear about fire suppression systems saving the day. The lesson I believe is to have a clear head and have a plan to get everyone safely off the boat if a fire breaks out. Hoping that the Fire Suppression system will work or buy some time......just doesn't appear to be a good thing to bet your life on.

-John
 
I agree with the weighing measure as well. I just haven't found consistency in how Fire Suppression companies actually make me feel better about these things.

-John
 
Well. . .this all makes me feel better.

I am going to take a closer look at this system in the spring.

There was a thread a while back regarding hand held fire extinguishers. Beyond the "visual inspection", the testing/replacement requirements for those devices also appear to be very loose.
 
Halon systems (or their ecofriendly counterparts) are not required by the USCG (at least for my puny boat size). Thus, I don't believe an insurance company would care if your system functions or doesnt. Maybe a discount would be in order for a operational Halon system, but denying coverage for an inoperational one probably wouldnt happen. Remember, when the Coasties check your boat, either when you're boarded (uh oh!) or during a Vessel Safety Check, they look for the appropriate number and type of fire extinguishers. If you have a Fixed system, the requirements are less depending on your boat's size.

Frank, that's great information - weigh it. How simple. But as Jim Comsnark mentioned above, suppose the triggering mechanism is shot. You dont find that out til it's too late?? My little green idiot light is still on after 20 years. But who knows for sure???

I knew a general contractor who did a lot of work at Warner-Lambert (maker of Listerine among other products before being acquired by Pfizer) here in NJ. He told me that there was an accidental trip of the Halon System in the building once, and you couldn't get a match to light up in there for close to 2 days.
 
I had a clause in my insurance policy(old company that I am no longer with) that said my halon system had to be check and certified each year. I checked with 2 local fire extinguisher companies....one didn't want anything to do with the halon....the other said (as Frank stated) he could weight the tank and tell if it was properly charged or not. I had to remove the tank from the boat and take it to his shop. I think he only charged me 5 or 10 bucks...gave a new tag....and I was done.

I can find no such clause in my new policy.....
 
"I've been told that up here in Northern Virginia, several of the fire extinguisher companies will inspect and test the bottle. If you disconnect and bring the bottle to them, I've been told the cost is under $20."

I pulled mine out this past spring and took it into AAA Fire Extinguishers in Tacoma. For $20 they inspected, weighed and gave me a new tag to hang on it.....
 
OK, so as I understand all of this! Fire = Turn system on and go overboard and get out of dodge as fast as possible?
 
Four Suns said:
One of the million dollar questions that I have is about this Halon system... I look at the bottle and there is an inspection requirement on it and I've never had it inspected. I've talked to Vane Bros. who does my life raft certificate/repack every year and they won't touch it... nor did they have a recommendation on who to go to. What does everyone else do? I've "read" that even if the pressure gauge shows "green", it may not work after a certain period of time.
Click to expand...

The tech was on my boat replacing a fire extinguisher and I went through what he did to certify the system. This applies to Halon only as the power or CO2 systems have to have the bottles removed and weighed.

First, due to some ozone issue, Halon is no longer used, it is a derivative.

The first thing he did was to check the engine shut offs on the genset and motors. If the system goes off it is supposed to kill the motors. Per the tech, the gas damages the engines if it's sucked in. Next he checked the manual pull system to make sure the linkage swings the lever that breaks the glass vial. The vial is inspected. It is oil filled and goes off at 175 degrees. He said he's seen a few systems go off in error when they were in a hot riser area but it's very rare. Lastly, he checked the hand held units on board. Put new 1 year labels on everything and billed me $270.

The net is, the main thing he did was check the gauge and linkage to actuate.
 
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