Inverter wiring question

C

Csalt

New Member
Apr 23, 2007
27
Lake Saint Clair, Mi
Boat Info
280 Sundancer 1990
Engines
4.3 Mercruiser w/Alpha1 Drives
I'm going to install a Coleman 1000 watt inverter on a panel close to the galley in the cabin.
I just going to run my lcd tv/dvd or small fan...nothing with too much draw.
I have 2 house batteries and 4 gauge wire ran to power the inverter.

My question is can I safely run the AC output of the inverter into a plug on the boat to power all the AC plugs in that circuit?
Obviously I will only do this when there is no shore power hooked up and all breakers off in the box.

Thanks,
Mike
 
Csalt said:
I'm going to install a Coleman 1000 watt inverter on a panel close to the galley in the cabin.
I just going to run my lcd tv/dvd or small fan...nothing with too much draw.
I have 2 house batteries and 4 gauge wire ran to power the inverter.

My question is can I safely run the AC output of the inverter into a plug on the boat to power all the AC plugs in that circuit?
Obviously I will only do this when there is no shore power hooked up and all breakers off in the box.

Thanks,
Mike
Click to expand...

You should use a sign wave inverter for electronics. You could probably get away with 400W. It should be placed as close to your battery bank as possible. You are too far away at your galley. You will lose a lot of energy in the cable from the battery to the inverter even if you are able to find the proper guage. How far is your run? I doubt that 4 guage will be adequate. It should be a marine grade inverter. This is a little more complicated than you think. There are many threads in the archives about this.
http://clubsearay.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6039&highlight=inverter
Good luck.
 
Last edited:
boatmailster said:
sine wave?
Click to expand...

Marine inverter because you want vibration and moisture resistance.

Sine wave:
ts-500output.gif

http://www.donrowe.com/inverters/inverter_faq.html#modified
Inverter FAQ:
http://www.donrowe.com/inverters/inverter_faq.html
http://nooutage.com/inverter1.htm#waveforms

I believe you have a Coleman PMP1000 with a modified sine wave.

From Don Rowe:
"General recommendations — Inverters 1500 watts and under: If battery and inverter are within 4', use #4 gauge AWG. If 4'-6', use #2. If more than 6', use #0 gauge wire (#0 gauge wire may require a "0 to 4 Gauge Adapter"). The maximum length generally recommended is 10', and shorter is better. If you need more length, it is much better to put it on the AC side (as with an extension cord from inverter to appliance) than on the DC side."
 
Last edited:
Thank you very much for all the responses,
I do have a PMP1000 and after reading all the info you supplied about it I'm going to install it in a locker very close to my main AC box with about a 8 foot run of 0 gauge.
The auto transfer switch looks like the way to go. I have this Coleman model all ready and if it fails I will definitely get a marine inverter and will have it wired already.
The run I had of 4 gauge was from a windlass I installed and thought I could tap off of that, but I see now that was way too small of wire for that long of run.

I know I can just turn on circuits with lower draw...my fridge will be off so it runs on DC.
Thanks again for the replies...this board has helped me with many projects on the boat and is a fantastic resource.
 
It's most important to have the inverter as close as possible to the battery bank to keep the DC run as short as possible. The transfer switch should be mounted at the panel if possible, or at least somewhere along the shore power AC wiring, since your shorepower feed needs to be disconnected from the panel, and connected to the transfer switch together with the AC feed from the inverter.

This will make your entire AC panel "hot" from the inverter when no shorepower is present. This is how I wired the inverter in my Chris-Craft...just be sure to power on only those devices that are within the power limits of your inverter.
 
I'm lucky to have a locker within a few feet of my battery bank and the AC panel is on top of that. I'll mount the inverter at the bottom of the locker to keep the DC run short and run the AC line to the transfer switch on top of the panel.
So will I be able to run my air and cook on the stove while I making hot water or should I hook up a honda in the bilge to help?
Just kidding!!!!!!
Thanks again,
Mike
 
This is one I am considering because it seems to have all of the logic, display and "automatic" transer built in. The Xantrex Pro 1000 or 1800

Xantrex.com said:
Description


The Xantrex PRO Series Inverters are the perfect complement to generators when shore power is unavailable, to quietly and efficiently provide household power when needed. The PRO Series design is both user friendly and versatile. These inverters feature a detachable, digital remote control to display precise inverter, AC source and battery status information from one convenient location. A built-in transfer switch automatically detects when generator or shore power status changes to ensure power is always available.

Both 1000 and 1800 W models are designed for demanding RV and marine conditions. They meet FCC Class B regulations to eliminate interference potential with other electronics, while UL 458 certification means they meet strict RV and marine safety standards. Versatile enough to be mounted either horizontally or vertically, these inverters can be easily installed to fit into any compartment. Conformal coated boards also minimize the chance of problems from moist operating conditions.

Performance Features


•1000/1800W inverter easily powers TVs, small appliances, and other electronics
•Built-in 15A circuit breaker to protect GFCI connected loads
•Up to 25A pass through for hardwired loads
•Digital remote control displays power output, AC source and battery voltage
•Detachable remote control can be mounted wherever convenient
•Conformal coated electronics provide moisture resistance
•Designed to be hard-wired using a terminal strip or by connecting AC through a GFCI receptacle (included)

Protection Features

•Battery over-voltage and under-voltage protection
•Over temperature shutdown
•Automatic overload protection
•Short-circuit protection
•Ground fault protection
Click to expand...
pro-series1000_800x600.jpg
 
You will need at least a 3000W inverter to run the air and even then, on one deep cycle battery it would get you about 20 min of air conditioning. If the stove is electric you would not be able to run the air and stove together on a 3000W inverter. The stove would drain the one battery just as fast as the air.
If you plan to swap out your Coleman when it fails, plan for the event of going with a 2000W or 3000W inverter by doing your install within a couple of feet from your battery bank. I'd keep it under 4' if you can. Probably not a good idea to put the Coleman in the engine compartment. It probably would ignite fumes.
 
I just installed the Xantrex Freeddom HF1000 in my boat. Inverter and charger all in one.
http://www.xantrex.com/web/id/257/p/1/pt/8/product.asp

It handles the transfer switch function including connection of the ground and neutral while in inverter mode. It is not ignition protected so can't be installed in the bilge. I installed mine in the mid cabin, used 2 AWG about 5 feet for the power lead and connected the ground with a foot of @AWG to the ground stud that I installed in the mid cabin. The ground stud is connected back to the battery with 4/0 AWG and serves as the ground for my amps as well.
The remote monitoring and control is mounted in the headliner above my sink. I made a nice frame for it out of a piece of cherry that I had lying around.

Make sure you install a fuse in the power lead as well. I have a 150 amp fuse on mine.
 
JuliaValentine said:
You will need at least a 3000W inverter to run the air and even then, on one deep cycle battery it would get you about 20 min of air conditioning. If the stove is electric you would not be able to run the air and stove together on a 3000W inverter. The stove would drain the one battery just as fast as the air.
If you plan to swap out your Coleman when it fails, plan for the event of going with a 2000W or 3000W inverter by doing your install within a couple of feet from your battery bank. I'd keep it under 4' if you can. Probably not a good idea to put the Coleman in the engine compartment. It probably would ignite fumes.
Click to expand...

I was just kidding about running all that off my Coleman...thank you again for pointing me in the right direction for this project,
Mike
 
Csalt said:
I was just kidding about running all that off my Coleman...thank you again for pointing me in the right direction for this project,
Mike
Click to expand...

Mike,
I knew you were just kidding about installing a Honda generator in the bilge. I was thrown off by you having 1 post when you started this thread and your plan to run D/C on 4 AWG, 8 feet to a 1000W land based inverter. There have been many before you who had less knowledge and experience and would ask those questions in all seriousness. It is difficult to know who's joking. I do get it now. Good luck. It sounds like it will work.
 
Just an update on the inverter install.
I went ahead and ordered a Xantrex pro 1000 from BOE instead of using the Coleman I had...great price and very fast shipping.
I installed the unit with about 5 feet of 0 gauge in a locker below my AC panel. I have it connected to 2 deep cycle group 29's.
I ran into a problem with the auto transfer switch built into the inverter, everything on shore power would work great until my air conditioning started and the inverter would click into protect. The air is fused at 15 amps on the AC panel but must use a little more then that on start up.
So then I decided to order the Gopower 30 amp auto transfer switch. I received that and didn't realize that it was almost the size of my whole AC panel! I didn't have the room so back it went and I ended up with a blue sea manual 30 amp transfer switch. The inverter works great!
I have ran a fan, TV/DVD, blender, microwave and inflater...not all at them same time of course.
I really like the remote display with the battery voltage monitor.
So you will be limited to a 15 amp draw if you use the built in AC transfer on the inverter.
Mike
 
I never even thought about that- if I understand you correctly, the transfer switch in the inverter is only rated for the inverter output, and won't "pass-through" higher amperage from shore power or a genset?
 
That is correct about the AC pass through on the inverter. It did accept 10 gauge wire on the inverter input and output...which made me think it would allow the 30 amp AC transfer.
But it will kick off on anything larger then 15 amps...with the manual switch installed it works fine.
 
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