Toasted motor

If the mechanic is right. Blew out a piston?
The engine may have ingested water thru a leaky exhaust manifold.

Water in the cylinder on the compression stroke may result in the big bang theory.

Pulling the plugs you could look for water or rust on the plugs.
Then a compression check while the plugs are out.

If the engine went out with a bang.
Take it apart and look at how neat all the broken and bent pieces look :wow: :smt009:smt089
 
jitts3 said:
Are you saying you aren't even sure what went wrong. There are tons o things that could have gone wrong that are repairable without a repower. I'm gonna ask this with NO p mallishous meaning. Do you know engines, and how they work? What happened to it? Was it running and BANG!!!!? Did you drain the oil? Any Metal? Pull Plugs? What did they look like? You may be chasing a minor head gasget you said. Why look for a repower when you may be totally rebuildable? Find out what went wrong first, Then panic.
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I'm with jitts on this one. Think positive...if it doesn't have any thing sticking thru the side of it or out the bottom it's fixable.

Hey man...this is America!! We can fix stuff!!:thumbsup:
 
Bobby,
I feel your pain. I am in the same boat, sort of. As last season progressed I had less and less oil pressure and at idle at end of day the guage barely registered. At speed I was still close to 10psi per 1000rpms. I knew I was in trouble when I started hearing ugly bottom end knocking sounds when doing no wake speeds.

The mechanic was able to find an acceptable, to him, quality reman 350 longblock with 2 year warranty for $2200 and he warrants his labor for 6 months. His labor charge for R and R motor, swap all the alt/starter, "tin" and intake from old motor is almost 3 days totaling probably $1800. He would not go for the $1300-$1500 remans around, doesn't trust them enough to risk his labor. I am getting 1 days labor credited because of some work he did last year that had some problems. He isn't always perfect but he stands behind his work til it gets resolved so I keep pouring money into his cash register.

Good luck,
Eddie Zuskin
 
jitts3 said:
Are you saying you aren't even sure what went wrong. There are tons o things that could have gone wrong that are repairable without a repower. I'm gonna ask this with NO p mallishous meaning. Do you know engines, and how they work? What happened to it? Was it running and BANG!!!!? Did you drain the oil? Any Metal? Pull Plugs? What did they look like? You may be chasing a minor head gasget you said. Why look for a repower when you may be totally rebuildable? Find out what went wrong first, Then panic.
Click to expand...

Panic? No not yet. Simply on a fact finding mission.

About what I know about the motor and what happened:
  1. From 3800rpm to 0 in aprox 3-4 seconds with no warning. Gave the motor a visual and checked things over. Oil on dip stick was very high, but all else was normal.
  2. Tried to turn over again after about 5 mins. Only cranked it about 4-5 times; which was enough time to realize things where definantly not good. Bad knock with each rev and turned over sluggishly. Stopped messing with it at that point b/c I realized it wasn't going to be a problem I could fix on the water. Called Vessel Assist for a tow. (If you don't have tow insurance....get it. Saved me to the tune of $1300)
  3. Rechecked the oil level on the tow home and it was still high. Seemed to me that I had coolant and/or raw water in the case.
  4. Brought into marine mech and ran him thru the scenerio. He gave it a look and got back to me with what he thought....most likely a catistophic failure. Without digging into the motor, he tended towards something big having gone wrong, rather than just a manifold or head gasket, b/c of the quick shut down and the quantity of coolant/raw water in the block. In his opinion, it takes something big to get that much into the case that quickly.
  5. I was not willing to pay them to assess damage on a motor that is tending towards something big, so I decided to take it appart myself and assess. Don't have to pay for my time and I have enough peeps that can help me answer questions. I've done a couple of head gaskets, timing chains, water pumps, etc...over the years and I have an understanding of how motors work, but I don't claim to understand it all. I will claim that I'm tenacious enough to figure it out though. To me it's all about identifying qualified people around me that can answer my questions.
B/c all indications are something big, I've been looking at repower options while I have some time; but I do plan on assessing the problem before I go into Chicken Little mode. Worst comes to worst, at least I'll have some cool broken/bent parts to hang on the shop wall that I'll be able to laugh about........some day.

B
 
eddiezuskin said:
The mechanic was able to find an acceptable, to him, quality reman 350 longblock with 2 year warranty for $2200 and he warrants his labor for 6 months. His labor charge for R and R motor, swap all the alt/starter, "tin" and intake from old motor is almost 3 days totaling probably $1800. He would not go for the $1300-$1500 remans around, doesn't trust them enough to risk his labor. I am getting 1 days labor credited because of some work he did last year that had some problems. He isn't always perfect but he stands behind his work til it gets resolved so I keep pouring money into his cash register.

Good luck,
Eddie Zuskin
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I've had 2 different local marine mech's tell me NOT to put in a ecconomical reman'ed long block. Both said that they have had alot of issues with them. Both independanty of each other recommended at least going with Mercruiser Certified reman. About twice the cost; so I'd be interested in thoughts about what they've said:huh:
B
 
Three of the companys I listed have good stuff.
The add for US engines looks good:huh:

If you like the boat and plan on keeping it.
Some complete bravo transom assembly's 2K
Brand new Bravo 3 5k

Brand new GM long blocks.
Merc remanufactured long blocks.
Bolt the parts on yourself?

Check out the websites I gave you.
If your turning wrenches and spending money on it.
You might as well make it better/stronger then when you bought it

There's a saying in the marine industry.
You Get What You Pay For.

PPT recommends me buying a Merc Remanufactured 8.1 over there brand new 8.1 engine. A savings of 2K :grin:
It it suppose to have the same warranty as new.
Merc is the only Major manufacturer doing there own rebuilds.
I still like new though :huh:
 
The high oil level is a good indication it is the motor. But aside from that, remember a catastrophic drive failure will give similar symptoms. That Alpha is not a good match for a 454. I would pull the drive and try to turn the engine over.
 
From the research I did.
A duoprop will get you another 3mph cruise speed increase at the same rpm.
And about 10% increase in fuel mpg.
Easyer docking and all that stuff too.

So your getting a lot more then just putting a stronger drive in.
If you would choose to go that route.

I find it very funny how many people say....
You can go buy another used boat for the price of fixing your current boat to like new condition.

All used and new boats break.
So when they break, Do you just trade it in for another boat thats going to break? :huh:

O'Yea, Buying a new 26'er
You just pay an extra 60k/100k Then have the comfort of letting someone else work on it for free for two whole seasons :smt038 Hopefully :wow::smt089
Then after two years. You can start fixing the other mechanics handywork :lol:

O' Yea, Its better to go buy another used boat :grin:
 
OK, First, Your mechanin is full of CRAP. Pison threw the wall? :lol: NOT! That cant happen, Maybe a connecting rod, but not the way you described. What I think happened is your head gasget or head itself cracked. Over time illing the crankcase with water. Water cools, not lubricates. I think you spun a rod bearing. This will whipe out the connectig rod. They are pretty cheap however.
So verify my theory by doing this. Allow the engine to sit a day, The water will seperate from the oil and be on the bottom of the oil pan. Pull the drain plug and see what comes out first. Eventually Oil will come out. If I'm right then you have an easy basic rebuild on your hands. Would cost about $1,500 in parts.
However with that If YOU are gonna try to rebuild it yourself, get a factory service manual and get an experienced friend to help with building the short block (Crank, rods, pistons, main and rod bearings. Here is the easiest place to make a mistake to cause an engine to run a meer 10 minutes before blowing again. The rest is basic.
Drain the oil and get back. Feel free to PM me. I have build many engines and would be glad to talk you through.
 
Latest update......

Drained it out last night. Couple of gallons of coolant and then chocolate pudding for oil.

Pulled the riser, valve cover, plugs and exhaust manifold off of the port side. Found 1/8" nuggets of metal in one of the exhaust ports. Looks like ring material and that hole won't hold pressure.

Pulled the plugs off the other side and one of the plugs was badly mashed.....defiantly got some debris in that hole. Guess I found where my knock was coming from.

Sounds like I've got issues on both sides. I'll be taking both heads off in the next few days to see what the cylinder walls look like.

I've got a line on a guy who repowered his boat b/c his rebuilt 454 magnum wouldn't push him along at 60mph. Sounds like he wants to be able to fly. So he repowered with a 500hp motor. The rebuilt only has 50hrs on it and he's asking $1800. I'm checking to see if I can do a straight change out with my motor. He's also getting me the contact info on the marine shop that rebuilt it. Any ideas on things I should be asking and checking on that rebuilt are welcome.

B
 
WARNING:

Just so you don't have to go through the same nonsense I am dealing with right now, please stay as far away from Rapido Marine as you can. I am not the kind of person who bashes a company online, but I have not only had a miserable experience with a motor that lasted less than 10 hours from these guys, but they have been less than truthfull with me for two weeks now on a replacement. I was supposed to receive a replacement motor two weeks ago and they haven't even shipped it or returned my phone calls.

As a secondary note, I feel terrible that I gave these guys a positive recommendation (while my boat was running for a weekend) and the person who had called me also has a bad motor from the same builder.

Dan
 
Cocktail Time said:
WARNING:

Just so you don't have to go through the same nonsense I am dealing with right now, please stay as far away from Rapido Marine as you can. I am not the kind of person who bashes a company online, but I have not only had a miserable experience with a motor that lasted less than 10 hours from these guys, but they have been less than truthfull with me for two weeks now on a replacement. I was supposed to receive a replacement motor two weeks ago and they haven't even shipped it or returned my phone calls.

As a secondary note, I feel terrible that I gave these guys a positive recommendation (while my boat was running for a weekend) and the person who had called me also has a bad motor from the same builder.

Dan
Click to expand...

Hey Dan

No problem on me going with them as I didn't use them. I got some negative feedback about the larger rebuild companies out there from more than one sorce; so I wound up going with a local guy who has an excellent reputation. It's been a joy to work with him.

I've just about got the tank flushed, bilges all rewired and hosed, and other misc items that needed to be done while the motor was out. I'm also just about done with putting the motor back together. Sat I'm bringing it down to the marine mech to have them put it all back together and make it go while were on vacation. Hopefully be back in the water by mid August. Here's to hopin!

Steve
 
BobbyB26 said:
Latest update......

Drained it out last night. Couple of gallons of coolant and then chocolate pudding for oil.

Pulled the riser, valve cover, plugs and exhaust manifold off of the port side. Found 1/8" nuggets of metal in one of the exhaust ports. Looks like ring material and that hole won't hold pressure.

Pulled the plugs off the other side and one of the plugs was badly mashed.....defiantly got some debris in that hole. Guess I found where my knock was coming from.

Sounds like I've got issues on both sides. I'll be taking both heads off in the next few days to see what the cylinder walls look like.

I've got a line on a guy who repowered his boat b/c his rebuilt 454 magnum wouldn't push him along at 60mph. Sounds like he wants to be able to fly. So he repowered with a 500hp motor. The rebuilt only has 50hrs on it and he's asking $1800. I'm checking to see if I can do a straight change out with my motor. He's also getting me the contact info on the marine shop that rebuilt it. Any ideas on things I should be asking and checking on that rebuilt are welcome.

B
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a lot of times when one cylinder on a v-8 goes it causes the cylinder across from it to have an issue too. Normally caused by the one the blew.
 
$ORRY TO HEAR YOUR BAD KNEWS...you have to find a good tech that is authorized mercrusier the price $20K is right on and if you can get a loan or put it on a credit card is le$$ then buying a new boat,which is what a refit well be.inspect fuel tank when engine is removed mine went bad..another boat in yard now with fuel tank rotted,BRITE SIDE MANY YEARS TO COME OF HAPPY BOATING AND MORE POWER AND CONTROL.
 
Hello:
Just read your forum info. I have 2 454 vortac engines with less than 10 hours on them, new big blocks, not remans and fresh water cooled exhaust manifolds available. They are in a 1981 36 ft Sea Ray Express Cruiser in the Baltimore area. I bought the boat on ebay and in late May went there and got both engines running, replaced the starters, alternators, carbs, and one distributor as well as complete tune up and oil change. Both engines run GREAT!! This is a project restoration boat. I am working overseas and just don't have the time required to complete this project so I am willing to get rid of the engines very CHEAP!!! email me at captmike72@ yahoo and if you are interested. I have a mechanic there that helped get them running that cold remove them for you. Thanks!
 
captmike72 said:
Hello:
Just read your forum info. I have 2 454 vortac engines with less than 10 hours on them, new big blocks, not remans and fresh water cooled exhaust manifolds available. They are in a 1981 36 ft Sea Ray Express Cruiser in the Baltimore area. I bought the boat on ebay and in late May went there and got both engines running, replaced the starters, alternators, carbs, and one distributor as well as complete tune up and oil change. Both engines run GREAT!! This is a project restoration boat. I am working overseas and just don't have the time required to complete this project so I am willing to get rid of the engines very CHEAP!!! email me at captmike72@ yahoo and if you are interested. I have a mechanic there that helped get them running that cold remove them for you. Thanks!
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Isn't this forum great! Ask a CSR member and thou shall recieve!!:thumbsup:
 
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