Upgrade Recommendations: 200, 220, 240

[johnb]

Hi folks. Could use some help :smt100

BACKGROUND
Season and a half in a baby Sea Ray (2003 176 SRX). First ever boat for me. Trailered and launched when used at local ramp.

PROS
Fast. Easy to tow and launch due to size. Sea Ray fit and build quality. Bowrider is good for leisure boating, tubing and just cruising around on tidal rivers where I live in NJ.

CONS
Tidal rivers where I boat are pretty busy, especially at mid-day and weekends, including some pretty large boats: lots of serious wakes. The 176 SRX does not cut thru even medium wakes. Also, 176 feels crowded with 4 or more people plus gear.

RECOMMENDATIONS?
I'm considering bumping up to a similar vintage but larger bowrider. So that means either a 200, 220 or 240. My questions:
1) Would a 21 footer give me that higher degree of stability and wake-handling that I'm looking for, or do I need to go up another foot? Or all the way to the 240?

2) What is the general difference between "Bowrider" and "Sundeck" models? I see the details online, but I don't understand their marketing. Is the "bowrider" model targeted towards more active boaters while the "sundeck" is targeted towards boaters who do more anchoring and sunbathing?

3) Post-2001 Sea Ray bowrider models: anything I should be avoiding? Any known model issues?

4) Will these larger bowriders (larger than my 176) + double axel trailers be significantly harder to launch and retrieve? The ramp I use can be tricky, especially at low tide.

5) Anything else I'm not thinking of?

Thanks for your help :thumbsup:

 

[chuck1]

A smart man on the board said buy the biggest boat you can afford!

As to the "Bow-rider" versus "Sundeck" debate I've heard it explained this way. The Bow-rider is the sport car and the Sundeck is the SUV. We love our Sundeck!. Not sure what your tow vehicle is but you are going to need a good size SUV or truck for a 220 or 240.

 

[johnb]

Towing a 220 or 240

I am using a 1998 Land Cruiser as tow vehicle. It is a competent tow vehicle, but these larger Sundecks would start approaching its tow capacity.

 

[HavingFun]

The Sundeck has more room but the bowriders are sportier. The Sundecks are deck boats with V hulls. The old style deck boats tended to have tri hulls or very flat hulls. You want the V to cut through the wakes. I have the 220SD and love it. It’s the perfect boat for us. There are a lot of 240 owners around and the bigger boat does make a difference. Its the only area that size does matter. The weight and draft issues are why I choose a 220 over a 240 originally. Now I keep my boat in rack storage and don’t go to the local shallow lake anymore so the 240 would work out better. I put trim tabs on my 220 and that makes a big difference on Lake Michigan. I think longer trailers are easier to backup. You will need to go deeper to launch. I would guess that the 220 would be your limit with your current tow vehicle.

 

[johnb]

Towing a 220 or 240: >6500 lbs?

Spec'd towing capacity of the Land Cruiser is 6500 lbs. I've seen multiple references to folks towing at the limit in various environments, without issue. Vehicle is 4x4, has transmission cooler and has a good V8. My towing would be mostly flat, sea-level, short distance travel.

Would that keep me in the running for pulling a trailered 240SD?

 

[chuck1]

IMHO - You are going to pass that 6500lbs with a fully loaded 240SD. By the time you add the trailer, gas, water and misc. stuff you are going to be pushing 7000lbs. A lot is going to depend on the type of towing and the location. We tow with a 9800lbs rated vehicle. I always heard not to exceed 70-80% of the towing capacity.

 

[bburgess9]

Hi there,
We have a 220 bow rider and I pull it with a Jeep Commander and it handles nicely now. I had to adjust the bunks to fit the boat better and now it pulls very well. I still hear a loud"clunk" if I take off or stop to fast but it is something on the tongue of the trailer that moves. The 220 is my first boat of this size and I love it. Even though it is a 1995 we still get people giving it a second look over. I had 9 people on it and it was about at the weight limit 1600 pounds for passengers and it did a great job pulling a tube. You could tell it was working a little harder but it did a great job!!!!!

 

[unlvrebel]

I'm a 220SD guy. First boat was a 185 Sport that we traded in seven months after we purchased it. We were looking for something that would cut through the wakes and waves. We tested the 220 and 240 (200 wasn't available at the time). We liked the molded swim platform of the 220 and the 240 seemed underpowered with the stock engine. Couldn't see spending the extra for the powerplant upgrade.

We have had the 220 for several seasons now and we have not been disappointed. I tow with a 2002 Dodge Durango with the Magnum V8. Rated for 7500lbs. I can definately feel the boat back there compared to the 185 but no issues. The boat has handled eleven passengers with now reduction in performance. In fact, the more people that are on board, the more stable she is through chop.

 

[surfinjoe]

I recently traded in my 180 sport (basically the same as the 176) for a 220 Sundeck. I love my new boat. It's easy to launch and retrieve, decent on gas (I have the 350 MAG) and a VERY fast deck boat (55+ MPH). We were looking at the 240 Sundeck but it maxed everything out (storage space, less fuel mileage, over my tow capacity). I have a family of 4 and the 220 gives you enough room to bring 2-4 guests onboard without issue. With my 180, 6 people onboard was WAY TOO MANY!

The 220 cuts through waves very well. I added a set of smart tabs to both boats and they improved the ride ~30%. If your only concern was cutting through waves, I would tell you to buy the smart tabs and see if you could keep your current boat. I will tell you that a 220 SD will use 2X as much gas as your 176 currently uses (more if you are a lead foot/hand like I am). There is something to be said for being able to keep up with those damn jet skiis and go-fast boats

My opinion is that the 220 SD is a HUGE jump in everything from your current boat and is the best bang for the buck in terms of entertaining, performance, ride quality and fuel mileage.

What I don't like about the other bow riders (Select & Sport series) is that they have no head. This sucks if you have small children & people who 'Forget' to use the bathroom before you depart. Even though my 220 Sundeck head is small, it get's the job done!

 

[HavingFun]

What I don't like about the other bow riders (Select & Sport series) is that they have no head. This sucks if you have small children & people who 'Forget' to use the bathroom before you depart. Even though my 220 Sundeck head is small, it get's the job done!

I didn't think much about the head when we got our boat. But when you need it you really need it. Plus it works as a changing room and is a great storage area.

I agree with surfinjoe that if you are happy with the boat then maybe you should try the tabs first. They help keep the bow down and that helps the boat slice through the wake.

 

[billandamy]

Hi there,
I still hear a loud"clunk" if I take off or stop to fast but it is something on the tongue of the trailer that moves.

Probably your surge brakes. The tongue moves back and forth, this is what gives you braking power going down a hill. It has a tendency to "clunk" when pulling the tongue back out on the next incline.

 

[Geurk]

I went from a 200 Sport to a 220 Select. The deeper cockpit and deeper bow seating creates a very 'safe' ride for the kids, and the deep v hull slices right through the bigger wakes. We cruise around in the upper RPMs and sometimes are even able to hit WOT without thinking too much about what kind of chop we're in. Of course I'm dealing specifically with inland lakes. But even on Cumberland lake, where cruisers can create some pretty significant chop, my boat handles beautifully.

IMO, you won't go wrong with the 220 and 240 series of Signatures, Selects, and Sundecks.

 

[charlg]

If you're interested in a 2003 240 Sundeck, you can PM me. I am on the fence right now about going larger, and might consider parting with a well cared for 240.

 

[chuck1]

If you're interested in a 2003 240 Sundeck, you can PM me. I am on the fence right now about going larger, and might consider parting with a well cared for 240.

Hey Charlie you beat me to it. A nice 290SS sure would fit the bill right about now.:thumbsup:

Ok back on topic. It is sound like a nice 220 would fit your needs and not have to worry about upgrading the tow vehicle.

 

[Mr Happy]

I was in your shoes 3 years ago. We had a 1995 Sea Ray 175, Basically the same boat. I knew I wanted bigger boat. When you go larger you get another foot in width, which makes a huge difference when packing in people and "stuff." The extra 6 feet that you would get in length in a 240 is worth it. The 240 would also probably weigh double your current boat. That weight helps when going thru the waves. This year has been the worst as far as how rough the water is. I know my old 175 would be pounded and I would be forced to slow down. My 225 is a deep V hull and rides great.
I do have the trim tabs and highly recommend them. From what I have been reading on these and other forums trim tabs are the way to go over smart tabs. For a few reasons. When riding in a boat the weight is not always the same. With a trim tab you push up or down and level the boat. When in seas and the wind and current are pushing your boat in one direction you can usually overcome that with a few bumps of the tabs.

As far as towing, I pulled my 175 with my suburban. Did not know it was back there. Now I can feel it back there especially when some idiot makes me put on the brakes tooo fast. Please keep in mind it takes a lot of weight to slow down 11,000#'s of car and boat. Others are right about the weight of a 220 or 240. My old 225 is rated at 3900#'s empty. Add gear, 72 gals gas(460#'s), water in your tanks,water and porta potty, 1,000#'s+ trailer and you are pushing your Land Cruiser to the limit.

As far as launching a retrieving I do not see a big difference. But I only put it in once or twice a season and I do not have to deal with tides and currents.

 

[tphinney]

Johnb;

the biggest difference in the Bow riders and SunDeck is the angle of the bow up front. the BowRiders have a steeper V up front for better performance. I had a 220 Sundeck and I used to get the Snot kicked out of me on Tampa Bay So I moved up to a crusier 240DA which has an even steeper bow entry and a lot more free board. in my option if you're going to stay in an open bow boat then go for the Bow Rider for the comfort/rider. If you want value then you cant go wrong with the sundeck. their in huge demand/supply so their will always be a market if you want to move up.

like the wise man said buy the biggest thing you can afford to use (price of the boat, gas & maintenace) cause it will always be just a little bit smaller than you would like.

 

[Groucho]

Hi there,
We have a 220 bow rider and I pull it with a Jeep Commander and it handles nicely now. I had to adjust the bunks to fit the boat better and now it pulls very well. I still hear a loud"clunk" if I take off or stop to fast but it is something on the tongue of the trailer that moves. The 220 is my first boat of this size and I love it. Even though it is a 1995 we still get people giving it a second look over. I had 9 people on it and it was about at the weight limit 1600 pounds for passengers and it did a great job pulling a tube. You could tell it was working a little harder but it did a great job!!!!!

That "clunk" your hearing is your surge brakes BTW.:thumbsup:

 

[billandamy]

That "clunk" your hearing is your surge brakes BTW.:thumbsup: Last edited by Groucho : Yesterday at 10:32 PM. Reason: Sorry Bill...didn't see your post.

lol...:lol:

Quite ok, dont be silly. I did give you negative rep points, however for being repetitive:smt018



:grin:

 

[surfinjoe]

Trim tabs and smart tabs have two very different functions:

1) Trim tabs are meant to compensate for added weight and counteract the effects of wind on the freeboard while underway. That is why they are adjustable. They are meant for larger boats (24'+) with more freeboard & weight.

2) Smart tabs are designed to improve the overall ride quality by acting as shock absorbers (that is why they have nitrogen shocks instead of hydraulic cylinders). They eliminate chine walking & proposing, reduce bow lift & fuel consumption and improve the ride by ~30% or more. They are designed for smaller boats (24' or less).

I agree that towing a 175 is much easier than a 220 or 240 however my 180 trailer did not have brakes and my 220 has dual-axle surge brakes. In my opinion, my 220 brakes much better than my 180 did.

Just my $0.02 input!

I was in your shoes 3 years ago. We had a 1995 Sea Ray 175, Basically the same boat. I knew I wanted bigger boat. When you go larger you get another foot in width, which makes a huge difference when packing in people and "stuff." The extra 6 feet that you would get in length in a 240 is worth it. The 240 would also probably weigh double your current boat. That weight helps when going thru the waves. This year has been the worst as far as how rough the water is. I know my old 175 would be pounded and I would be forced to slow down. My 225 is a deep V hull and rides great.
I do have the trim tabs and highly recommend them. From what I have been reading on these and other forums trim tabs are the way to go over smart tabs. For a few reasons. When riding in a boat the weight is not always the same. With a trim tab you push up or down and level the boat. When in seas and the wind and current are pushing your boat in one direction you can usually overcome that with a few bumps of the tabs.

As far as towing, I pulled my 175 with my suburban. Did not know it was back there. Now I can feel it back there especially when some idiot makes me put on the brakes tooo fast. Please keep in mind it takes a lot of weight to slow down 11,000#'s of car and boat. Others are right about the weight of a 220 or 240. My old 225 is rated at 3900#'s empty. Add gear, 72 gals gas(460#'s), water in your tanks,water and porta potty, 1,000#'s+ trailer and you are pushing your Land Cruiser to the limit.

As far as launching a retrieving I do not see a big difference. But I only put it in once or twice a season and I do not have to deal with tides and currents.