V Drive vs IO

[mhtimber]

Can you enlighten us with what the problems were so some the people that are wanting to purchase will know the headache you are going/have gone through, thanks.

Hi Tom,

it was late and I was taking a little creative license with my post, but the sentiment remains the same.

Issue #1: Most recently, our 2006 320 had leaking bellows which were replaced in 2007; the dealer was able to press Mercuiser to cover them under warranty. Spring '09, both bellows leaking badly at launch time, when removed they showed no sign of deterioration, of being installed improperly, nor did the actual hardware show any indications for the problem. Despite extended warranty, Mercruiser refused coverage stating that the reason as the parts were 'under water and they moved'. My marina pressed several times but no luck. The bill was $1800~.

Issue #2: There is a known problem with certain recent model years of Merc I/Os with shaft o-rings being too tight and causing grooves in the shaft, which eventually let water into the system. I was using drive oil on my starboard engine and my mechanic suspected this issue right away. We watched it during the remainder of the season and had all three of my drives (320 & 175) torn-down, inspected and repaired as all three had the problem. Mercruiser did cover this, but had I not been diligent I would have likely ended up footing the bill.

Issue#3: 2000 BIII had repeated shifting issues, every time the dealer removed them for maintenance, shortly thereafter the drives would stick in forward and aside from the downtime and arguing about who was going to pay for the recurring problem, I also had a near accident due to the malfunction.

Issue#4: 2000 BIII self destructed due to water in the oil shortly after spring launch (hours). There was an alarm and when I called the dealer to discuss it, he told me to disconnect the alarm wire as the cause was likely a dirty drive oil bottle. The alarm was in fact due to the water, I had to pay $7500 for a reman I/O.

Issues#5: 2000 BIII engine exhaust risers rusted out within the new warranty period, it was covered but...good grief! Subsequently, I had to pay for another that rotted out. The cause being poor design and is well documented in the industry.

Issue#6: 2000 BIII engine overheated and seized, had to be replaced. Cause was diagnosed as loss of coolant due to water inlet on I/O getting blocked; insurance covered this fortunately. The point here being the inherent vulnerability to coolant blockage that the I/Os face - likely this would not have happened if my sea water inlet were a conventional throughull.

lastly, I/Os require a lot of expensive maintenance.

We live on an island 7+ months out of the year and we boat in all weather and at the extremes of the seasons. As such we do all required maintenance by the book and anything else our mechanics recommend because we've experienced so many problems.

Basically, I/Os are historically maintenance nightmares, expensive and not very reliable for situations where you need reliability. They make sense for bow riders and other small runabouts, but are a poor choice for anything larger (my opinion).

We bought our 320 with I/Os because it was a left over with great incentives from the dealer...no wonder. We do love the 320, even with the I/Os, but if I were to do it again I'd insist on inboards. Ideally straight inboards rather than v-drives.

 

[Southpaw II]

Hi Tom,

it was late and I was taking a little creative license with my post, but the sentiment remains the same.

Issue #1: Most recently, our 2006 320 had leaking bellows which were replaced in 2007; the dealer was able to press Mercuiser to cover them under warranty. Spring '09, both bellows leaking badly at launch time, when removed they showed no sign of deterioration, of being installed improperly, nor did the actual hardware show any indications for the problem. Despite extended warranty, Mercruiser refused coverage stating that the reason as the parts were 'under water and they moved'. My marina pressed several times but no luck. The bill was $1800~.

Issue #2: There is a known problem with certain recent model years of Merc I/Os with shaft o-rings being too tight and causing grooves in the shaft, which eventually let water into the system. I was using drive oil on my starboard engine and my mechanic suspected this issue right away. We watched it during the remainder of the season and had all three of my drives (320 & 175) torn-down, inspected and repaired as all three had the problem. Mercruiser did cover this, but had I not been diligent I would have likely ended up footing the bill.

Issue#3: 2000 BIII had repeated shifting issues, every time the dealer removed them for maintenance, shortly thereafter the drives would stick in forward and aside from the downtime and arguing about who was going to pay for the recurring problem, I also had a near accident due to the malfunction.

Issue#4: 2000 BIII self destructed due to water in the oil shortly after spring launch (hours). There was an alarm and when I called the dealer to discuss it, he told me to disconnect the alarm wire as the cause was likely a dirty drive oil bottle. The alarm was in fact due to the water, I had to pay $7500 for a reman I/O.

Issues#5: 2000 BIII engine exhaust risers rusted out within the new warranty period, it was covered but...good grief! Subsequently, I had to pay for another that rotted out. The cause being poor design and is well documented in the industry.

Issue#6: 2000 BIII engine overheated and seized, had to be replaced. Cause was diagnosed as loss of coolant due to water inlet on I/O getting blocked; insurance covered this fortunately. The point here being the inherent vulnerability to coolant blockage that the I/Os face - likely this would not have happened if my sea water inlet were a conventional throughull.

lastly, I/Os require a lot of expensive maintenance.

We live on an island 7+ months out of the year and we boat in all weather and at the extremes of the seasons. As such we do all required maintenance by the book and anything else our mechanics recommend because we've experienced so many problems.

Basically, I/Os are historically maintenance nightmares, expensive and not very reliable for situations where you need reliability. They make sense for bow riders and other small runabouts, but are a poor choice for anything larger (my opinion).

We bought our 320 with I/Os because it was a left over with great incentives from the dealer...no wonder. We do love the 320, even with the I/Os, but if I were to do it again I'd insist on inboards. Ideally straight inboards rather than v-drives.

If I had this experience with I/Os, I would have gotten out a long time before you did...or will do.

My 1998 290DA had twin Alphas. I tore it down at 120 hrs, replaced the impellers, zincs, and new paint, and never touched it again. I kept it in the water year-round for 6 years and sold it with 220 hrs. on it.

Don

 

[mhtimber]

Maintanance aside, (I see more problems in my boat club w/inboards than I/O's) Drive them both in the same size boat and make your own determination. Once you get used to docking i/o's it is not that big a deal. My buddy w/inbds needs to 400rpm more than me to carry the same speed $$. If speed, getting on plane fast, manuverabilty at speed . fuel economy are impt.than go i/o Otherwise for sturdier ride and better docking go inbd. my 2 cents:smt021

Hi wakeup 19, I'd be interested in hearing about the inboard challenges.

Thanks
Jeff

 

[mhtimber]

If I had this experience with I/Os, I would have gotton out a long time before you did...or will do.

My 1998 290DA had twin Alphas. I tore it down at 120 hrs, replaced the impellers, zincs, and new paint, and never touched it again. I kept it in the water year-round for 6 years and sold it with 220 hrs. on it.

Don

Hi Don,

In hindsight I wouldn't re-buy my 320 with the I/Os, I would definitely re-buy with v-drives though. We have changed marinas and getting better techs working on the boats literally has made all the difference. Putting aside the freak problem with bellows last spring, which has everyone scratching their heads and I believe was not caused by install error, our reliability experience has improved dramatically.

We have had more than our share of problems with Mercruiser I/Os, which has lead me to do a lot of research and much of what I have learned has not been positive in terms of Mercruiser quality and design. That being said, I firmly believe that the majority of our problems were more related to dealer servicing, and challenges they have with keeping good techs. Our 2006 175 being a good example, the engine would barely idle and would diesel badly when shut down. I let the dealer work on it three times before asking my marina to work on it. The problem turned out to be the timing wasn't set correctly and the carburator needed some adjustments, pretty basic but the Master Sea Ray dealer couldn't handle even that, with three times back to their shop. And that's just one of my stories, they only get more painful when get into the Bravo IIIs or letting them touch gel coat.

The reason why we continued to do business with the dealer is that I am related to the dealer sales rep we bought from, and that the majority of other brands sold on the lake use Mercruiser as well. I do prefer Sea Ray over Regal and the other competing brands, which is why we stayed with the brand. And I also personally like the people at the dealership, they really did treat me well and tried to provide quality service, they just have some serious training & skill set issues with their techs. The service director would bend over backwards to help out but repairs continually had to be redone, the boat going back 2 or 3 times (at $100~ fuel cost round trip, on my dime), it got to where just the thought of taking her to the dealer would get me highly pissed off.

Three seasons into our current marina I think we finally have all the dealer bugs worked out, some of which were Sea Ray / Mercruiser issues as well; so knocking on wood that we've seen the worst of it.

Jeff

 

[Alex F]

My 1998 290DA had twin Alphas. I tore it down at 120 hrs, replaced the impellers, zincs, and new paint, and never touched it again. I kept it in the water year-round for 6 years and sold it with 220 hrs. on it.

Don

Don,
The key here is Alphas. From what I've heared they have much better reputation vs. BIIIs. However, if I was to keep the boat in salt water in wet slip I wouldn't go for either. I got lucky with both previously onwned A-1 and BIII where A-1 I've used for 6 yrs and BIII for 4yrs, but those were boats on trailer.

From what I recall, 300DAs (from model change in 2002, I never looked at older style models) come with BIIIs, this would be a big no-no.

 

[Bridog]

From what I recall, 300DAs (from model change in 2002, I never looked at older style models) come with BIIIs, this would be a big no-no.

Says you! I can't wait to race you to F-cove this Summer. I'll even wait with you until high tide so you can get in. :grin: oh...And I don't mean your dinghy.

 

[Alex F]

Says you! I can't wait to race you to F-cove this Summer. I'll even wait with you until high tide so you can get in. :grin: oh...And I don't mean your dinghy.

Oh come on Brian, you know I didn't mean it that way. The OP is in FL, in very warm and salt water. It'll broil those BIIIs pretty quickly, IMO. We're on the other hand in brackish waters. If I recall, you're in the Manasquan river, so that's way less salty.

I know what you mean about F-cove. It's one tricky spot. Somehow it never made it to the list of my favorite spots. During the low tide I had to raise the drive on my 240 while entering/exiting the cove.

BTW, I would never issue a blank statement to stay away from BIIIs. if you recall my initial response "The long answer is, it depends on a lot of variables...". I loved the prformormance of BIII on my 240DA. However, when we made a decision to keep the boat in slip, I had to take more conservative approach.

 

[skolbe]

It seems as if those folks that have sworn off Bravo III's in lieu of V's had significant problems with their I/O configuration. I know once I had an issue with the aluminum coupler going out, with a big block. I had far exceeded the maintenance schedule. Frankly, I became paranoid with the Bravo III and felt like I was always babysitting it. Which made boating less enjoyable. My Dad's boat lost a Bravo III's in back to back seasons. The extended warranty would only pay for rebuilt drives, so he paid the extra for new drives. He puts 30 hours a season and has the boat pulled annually. Bravo III's are great drives. But once you start having issues, be prepared.

 

[Bridog]

Oh come on Brian, you know I didn't mean it that way. The OP is in FL, in very warm and salt water. It'll broil those BIIIs pretty quickly, IMO. We're on the other hand in brackish waters. If I recall, you're in the Manasquan river, so that's way less salty.

I know what you mean about F-cove. It's one tricky spot. Somehow it never made it to the list of my favorite spots. During the low tide I had to raise the drive on my 240 while entering/exiting the cove.

BTW, I would never issue a blank statement to stay away from BIIIs. if you recall my initial response "The long answer is, it depends on a lot of variables...". I loved the prformormance of BIII on my 240DA. However, when we made a decision to keep the boat in slip, I had to take more conservative approach.

I know Alex. Just having some fun with you. Actually I think I have V-drive envy since I already had some issues with my bellows, etc, on my Bravos 3's. I do, however, enjoy the better performance and fuel consumption with the stern drives. Maybe someday we can get the best of both worlds? Also I agree that F-cove is not one of my favorites either. Check out MTV's "Jersey Shore" next week and you will see what I mean. Take care, Brian

 

[Good 2 Go]

V-Drives hands down.
MY first Bravo III last three seasons slipped in the upper Chesapeake Bay, complete corrosion failure. Mercruiser were real jerks dealing with the issue, will only replace if you reported it at first signs of corrosion, which dealer blew me off when I asked. Newer drives are better, my first was a 94, I bought a new drive in 2000 and got 7 years out of it by nursing and spending many hours every winter tending to the corrosion spots. Never again for me.
To reiterate, Mercruiser were total jerks denying they had a problem, blamed stray current in the marina, blamed me even though I replace my zincs mid season every year using only Mercruiser zincs, had my Mercathode checked at my expense, never again. If you want outdrives I hear the Volvos are bullet proof and no corrosion issues. But you won't find them on a Sea Ray since Brunswick owns Sea Ray, Mercruiser, cummions plus many other boat manufacturers. They got us by the short ones.