Having trouble understanding current events

Iprof said:
There is no paper trail that shows the documents were declassified.
Trump took the documents when he was no longer President.
Just another shit show created by Trump.

Funny how quiet the Trumptards got once a document was posted that showed the FBI found classified documents in Trumps closet.
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You just cannot accept that Trump was President and therefore has all powers vested in the office. Answer the question is the following correct or just shut up. According to the federal judge and the DOJ the following applies.

A President can classify anything they want.

A President can declassify anything they want.

A President can do both any way they want.

A President can do both anytime they are President.

A President is the highest level of authority on both.

Show us proof this is wrong professor…
 
MonacoMike said:
You just cannot accept that Trump was President and therefore has all powers vested in the office. Answer the question is the following correct or just shut up. According to the federal judge and the DOJ the following applies.

A President can classify anything they want.

A President can declassify anything they want.

A President can do both any way they want.

A President can do both anytime they are President.

A President is the highest level of authority on both.

Show us proof this is wrong professor…
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I agree with that but what you are clueless to to the fact there is no evidence Trump declassified any of the documents he stole.
The DOJ filed in court a list of documents recovered by the FBI that were still classified. Even if every document was declassified Trump stole the papers, he had no right to have those documents, he's just citizen Trump nothing more.
 
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Iprof said:
I agree with that but what you are clueless to is that there is no evidence Trump declassified any of the documents he stole.
The DOJ filed in court a list of documents recovered by the FBI that were still classified. Even if every document was declassified Trump stole the papers, he had no right to have those documents, he's just citizen Trump nothing more.
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You realize when he packed up and moved out he was still President. And what are these so called classified docs? Are they truly worthy of said classification or just BS government crap. And why did they take everything else? What are they really trying to do?
 
Golfman25 said:
And what are these so called classified docs? Are they truly worthy of said classification or just BS government crap. And why did they take everything else? What are they really trying to do?
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As you've probably seen in the press, there are several levels of classification. The documents that are Confidential might well be questionable as to whether they needed to be classified; sometimes the system errs on the side of protecting at that level. But, above that, the classification markings are without doubt there because they reflect the damage that will occur to national security that will happen if they are disclosed. Disclosure could happen if they were mishandled or randomly declassified for convenience, so either scenario is equally bad. On the other hand, we really don't know the breadth and depth of what is in the documents and probably won't in our lifetimes. If they are focused on one particular subject area it would be one thing, still likely serious. If they span across broad range of subjects, much more serious.
I don't think anyone who has not been cleared and had access at TS and above can appreciate the care with which these documents are usually protected and the types of information they contain. I'm guessing you won't take my word for it but the seizure really had to happen. The proven existence of a cache of a large number of classified documents couldn't be ignored.
 
MonacoMike said:
You just cannot accept that Trump was President and therefore has all powers vested in the office. Answer the question is the following correct or just shut up. According to the federal judge and the DOJ the following applies.

A President can classify anything they want.

A President can declassify anything they want.

A President can do both any way they want.

A President can do both anytime they are President.

A President is the highest level of authority on both.

Show us proof this is wrong professor…
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Again, for those who seriously cannot seem to get it…classification really doesn’t matter with regard to custody, he illegally possessed government documents. If he thinks in his tiny mind that he declassified them, with zero proof, it STILL doesn’t matter as he illegally possessed government documents. Legal custody of ALL presidential records belongs to NARA. Classified or not.

Proof lies in the PRA.
  • Establishes that Presidential records automatically transfer into the legal custody of the Archivist as soon as the President leaves office.
https://www.archives.gov/presidential-libraries/laws/1978-act.html
 
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Iprof said:
I agree with that but what you are clueless to is that there is no evidence Trump declassified any of the documents he stole.
The DOJ filed in court a list of documents recovered by the FBI that were still classified. Even if every document was declassified Trump stole the papers, he had no right to have those documents, he's just citizen Trump nothing more.
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You agree that the President can classify and declassify any documents, any way, but Trump. LMAO!
 
Cdillerud said:
Again, for those who seriously cannot seem to get it…classification really doesn’t matter with regard to custody, he illegally possessed government documents. If he thinks in his tiny mind that he declassified them, with zero proof, it STILL doesn’t matter as he illegally possessed government documents. Legal custody of ALL presidential records belongs to NARA. Classified or not.

Proof lies in the PRA.
  • Establishes that Presidential records automatically transfer into the legal custody of the Archivist as soon as the President leaves office.
https://www.archives.gov/presidential-libraries/laws/1978-act.html
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So who is it that has this authority over the President? Who exercises this authority? What are the criminal procedures and penalties for this?

The federal judge and DOJ gave us their respective rulings and filings, but you know better because the same folks that have been after Trump since he announced his candidacy told you so. Sheep…
 
The professor and his sidekick on duty. LMAO!

upload_2022-9-10_11-22-34.png
 
MonacoMike said:
So who is it that has this authority over the President? Who exercises this authority? What are the criminal procedures and penalties for this?

The federal judge and DOJ gave us their respective rulings and filings, but you know better because the same folks that have been after Trump since he announced his candidacy told you so. Sheep…
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Again, he isn’t president. He is a citizen like you and me. Even when he was, laws still apply.

NARA exercises custody of the documents. When it was clear there were issues and the FPOTUS team was not returning all the documents they Made a referral to the FBI. When a grand jury subpoena was not fully complied with that is when a judge authorized the legal execution of a search warrant.

FPOTUS “authority” was rendered moot at noon on Jan 20, 2021. You do realize that, right? At that moment all presidential records fell under the “authority” and custody of NARA, per the PRA.
 
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President Trump, when he was in office (and only then) had the power to declassify. Hillary Clinton, as SECSTATE, being an Original Classification Authority (OCA) had the same power delegated to her.
I would argue that random declassification solely for the purpose of making it convenient to ignore protection and access requirements would be more harmful than mishandling, which may be why Secretary Clinton didn't try that excuse.
That said, all President Trump needs to do now is show the order(s) that declassified the documents. This would solve a lot of his problem. There would still be an issue of Presidential Records but I believe that would be handled much more quietly absent classified documents the way earlier PRA disputes have been.
 
Cdillerud said:
Again, he isn’t president. He is a citizen like you and me. Even when he was, laws still apply.

NARA exercises custody of the documents. When it was clear there were issues and the FPOTUS team was not returning all the documents they Made a referral to the FBI. When a grand jury subpoena was not fully complied with that is when a judge authorized the legal execution of a search warrant.

FPOTUS “authority” was rendered moot at noon on Jan 20, 2021. You do realize that, right? At that moment all presidential records fell under the “authority” and custody of NARA, per the PRA.
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Once the President has the documents he has them. The NARA can ask for them but there is no criminal or civil penalties and no enforcement mechanism.
 
MonacoMike said:
Once the President has the documents he has them. The NARA can ask for them but there is no criminal or civil penalties and no enforcement mechanism.
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Dude, please read the act closely. That is 100% not true.
 
Cdillerud said:
Again, he isn’t president. He is a citizen like you and me. Even when he was, laws still apply.
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Not true in any way shape or form. To get Bill Clinton to give a deposition in a case against him went to SCOTUS. Yes, typical laws like murder or rape apply but not much else. That is why they talked Nixon into retiring, they couldn’t arrest him and to do so would put us in a constitutional crisis between the separate powers.

If Trump says he declassified the documents then that is his to do the way he wishes, he does not have to follow someone’s guidelines to do so. Then he can possess those documents after he leaves office.
 
MonacoMike said:
That is why they talked Nixon into retiring, they couldn’t arrest him and to do so would put us in a constitutional crisis between the separate powers.
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President Nixon resigned when Articles of Impeachment were being voted on in the House and he was told the Senate would convict him. Once he was a private citizen, he was likely going to be indicted but was saved from prosecution by President Ford's pardon. President Ford pardoned him to end the ongoing turmoil and because acceptance of a pardon is an admission of guilt.
 
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Golfman25 said:
You realize when he packed up and moved out he was still President. And what are these so called classified docs? Are they truly worthy of said classification or just BS government crap. And why did they take everything else? What are they really trying to do?
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I posted the link that showed Trump had classified material.
So you agree Trump took the classified material, you believe he was allowed too because he was President but once he was no longer President he was not entitled to have that material.
 
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MonacoMike said:
You agree that the President can classify and declassify any documents, any way, but Trump. LMAO!
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See you're a Trumptard we get that, trouble understanding. A President can declassify material but there needs to be a paper trail showing which documents have been declassified, Trump didn't do this. His defense has no documentation to prove his case. It's just another screw up by the worse President in history.
 
Iprof said:
See you're a Trumptard we get that, trouble understanding. A President can declassify material but there needs to be a paper trail showing which documents have been declassified, Trump didn't do this. His defense has no documentation to prove his case. It's just another screw up by the worse President in history.
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Honestly, no reason to call names. I don’t agree with many of the posters here, and I worry about Trumpism spreading…but they are not necessarily bad people for having their opinions. I wish they would treat us that way in turn.

A guy can hope
 
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