The truth about wearing a mask -finally

Iprof said:
Seems the CDC did recommend wearing face masks during the swine flu in 2009.

https://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/masks.htm

Interim Recommendations for Facemask and Respirator Use to Reduce 2009 Influenza A (H1N1) Virus Transmission
September 24, 2009 10:00 AM ET
Click to expand...

Great post! Let’s review what the CDC said in 2009.

“In the absence of clear scientific data, the interim recommendations below have been developed on the basis of public health judgment, the historical use of facemasks and respirators in other settings for preventing transmission of influenza and other respiratory viruses, and on current information on the spread and severity of the 2009 influenza A (H1N1)”

Hmmm, Did they just say they don’t have scientific data on wearing a face mask in the real world? That’s what it looks like to me.
 
MonacoMike said:
Great post! Let’s review what the CDC said in 2009.

“In the absence of clear scientific data, the interim recommendations below have been developed on the basis of public health judgment, the historical use of facemasks and respirators in other settings for preventing transmission of influenza and other respiratory viruses, and on current information on the spread and severity of the 2009 influenza A (H1N1)”

Hmmm, Did they just say they don’t have scientific data on wearing a face mask in the real world? That’s what it looks like to me.
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Good so we agree that your statement about masks was wrong good start.
 
Golfman25 said:
Look, Doctors, Scientists, et. al. provide information and data. They are not, and should not be, policy makers. Policy makers decide what to do with that information and data.
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The policy makers above the CDC up to and including the President have all endorsed the wearing of masks, not to mention the overwhelming majority of state and local governments with authority to mandate mask use where it makes sense and applicable to the particulars of their outbreaks.
It's funny how embracing masks and social distancing appears to be directly related to the level of perceived threat. Last week this time, there were almost no masks in sight at the White House. Today, nary a bare face in sight. Same story has played out in the individual states and localities.
 
Iprof said:
Good so we agree that your statement about masks was wrong good start.
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Yes my post was wrong because for those of you with short attention span that cannot seem to remember the topic, universal mandated mask wear, I should’ve added that statement so you could follow along.

“never before have WHO and CDC ever recommended universal mandated mask wear for a respiratory disease. This only came about after social media busy bodies started trying to push their will on to other people. And that is why the CDC changed their recommendation, and no other reason.”

There all fixed. Can we also agree that the CDC said there was no science to support Universal mask wear and that the guidelines from the document posted we’re about at risk people?
 
alnav said:
The policy makers above the CDC up to and including the President have all endorsed the wearing of masks, not to mention the overwhelming majority of state and local governments with authority to mandate mask use where it makes sense and applicable to the particulars of their outbreaks.
It's funny how embracing masks and social distancing appears to be directly related to the level of perceived threat. Last week this time, there were almost no masks in sight at the White House. Today, nary a bare face in sight. Same story has played out in the individual states and localities.
Click to expand...

So scared people equal science?
 
alnav said:
The policy makers above the CDC up to and including the President have all endorsed the wearing of masks, not to mention the overwhelming majority of state and local governments with authority to mandate mask use where it makes sense and applicable to the particulars of their outbreaks.
It's funny how embracing masks and social distancing appears to be directly related to the level of perceived threat. Last week this time, there were almost no masks in sight at the White House. Today, nary a bare face in sight. Same story has played out in the individual states and localities.
Click to expand...


To be clear, I am completely against universal mandated mask wear. I am pissed off that alpoliticians will usurp our freedoms on such flimsy evidence based on an uproar caused by a bunch of whiny social media people.

That those whiny social media people could get supposed neutral science based organizations like the CDC and WHO to change their directives is unfathomable to me.

And if you do not believe they will not go back to this well constantly to take freedoms away from other people you don’t know the slightest thing about human nature.
 
MonacoMike said:
So scared people equal science?
Click to expand...
MonacoMike said:
To be clear, I am completely against universal mandated mask wear. I am pissed off that alpoliticians will usurp our freedoms on such flimsy evidence based on an uproar caused by a bunch of whiny social media people.

That those whiny social media people could get supposed neutral science based organizations like the CDC and WHO to change their directives is unfathomable to me.

And if you do not believe they will not go back to this well constantly to take freedoms away from other people you don’t know the slightest thing about human nature.
Click to expand...
No, there were plenty of states and localities who embraced the science and put mandates and/or recommendations in place early on. The ones I am referring to held back due to political considerations until they got into big trouble, then relented in the interest of reducing spread; that seemed to work in every case. As to their motivation, is "whiny social media" any different than the thousands of phone call, or earlier, telegrams, that politicians would pay attention to try to gauge the pulse of the people? What else are they supposed to pay attention to?
There are literally hundreds of scientific proof points on the value of social distancing, masking and other measures. Unfortunately, some choose to ignore all of those and like to harken back to measures taken (or not) in previous emergencies, irrespective of what has been learned in this one. I can't find any recent studies calling masking or social distancing into question as a beneficial strategy; I would certainly like to see them so please post. Post-mortems will certainly find problems with the degree and/or timing of measures as well as new lessons learned but I believe the basics will stand the test of time.
I'm not worried about pandemic response leading to a wholesale loss of freedom. I'm not even sure mandating masks even qualifies legally as taking away anything. I'd be more concerned about interfering with commerce but the courts have already shown their willingness to step in when the other parts of government over-reach, I'm confident they will continue to do so.
 
So are you guys ready to follow the science from the 2009 CDC guidelines? Or are you still pretending there’s some science up there that backs up your fears?
 
MonacoMike said:
So are you guys ready to follow the science from the 2009 CDC guidelines? Or are you still pretending there’s some science up there that backs up your fears?
Click to expand...
There are literally hundreds of scientific proof points on the value of social distancing, masking and other measures, fresh from the experience of the current pandemic. Many of those studies have been posted in this thread and others. Unfortunately, some choose to ignore all of those and like to harken back to measures taken (or not) in previous emergencies, irrespective of what has been learned in this one. I can't find any recent studies calling masking or social distancing into question as a beneficial strategy; I would certainly like to see them so please post.
 
MonacoMike said:
So are you guys ready to follow the science from the 2009 CDC guidelines? Or are you still pretending there’s some science up there that backs up your fears?
Click to expand...
So tell us your wisdom on how to deal with Covid-19 and protect yourself. We can't wait.
 
The Importance of Face Masks and the Tragedy of Downplaying Them
"The evidence that we as scientists have gathered is from every other respiratory virus and multiple experiments. It’s from watching how the virus spreads in places where people wear and don’t wear masks. We are confident masks are a pillar of how to stop this virus, both protecting you, protecting your family, and protecting others. I understand the message has been confused in this country. But please believe me that this evidence is sound and that if we wear a mask, all of us, or at least 80 percent of us, we will get to the end of the pandemic."
http://nautil.us/issue/90/something...ace-masks-and-the-tragedy-of-downplaying-them
 
alnav said:
The Importance of Face Masks and the Tragedy of Downplaying Them
"The evidence that we as scientists have gathered is from every other respiratory virus and multiple experiments. It’s from watching how the virus spreads in places where people wear and don’t wear masks. We are confident masks are a pillar of how to stop this virus, both protecting you, protecting your family, and protecting others. I understand the message has been confused in this country. But please believe me that this evidence is sound and that if we wear a mask, all of us, or at least 80 percent of us, we will get to the end of the pandemic."
http://nautil.us/issue/90/something...ace-masks-and-the-tragedy-of-downplaying-them
Click to expand...
Yeah. You forgot this little gem:

"In settings where masks are given out, like a cruise ship, where they had an outbreak and didn’t let the poor people off the ship, but gave them masks, the rate of asymptomatic infection rose. In an Argentinian cruise ship, that rate was 81 percent. In the meat-processing plants in our country, we had a lot of severe illnesses at the beginning. People were getting sick because it’s a closed environment. When they mandated masking in an Oregon seafood-processing plant, they had a rate of asymptomatic infection with outbreaks of 95 percent. It might seem like a contradiction, but a rise in infection rates is not a terrible thing. Masking and reducing the viral inoculum, getting less severe disease, resulting in more people having asymptomatic infection, is a good outcome. You want to drive down the number of people who get sick."

Isn't that what is happening in the US. More cases, less severe.
 
alnav said:
There are literally hundreds of scientific proof points on the value of social distancing, masking and other measures, fresh from the experience of the current pandemic. Many of those studies have been posted in this thread and others. Unfortunately, some choose to ignore all of those and like to harken back to measures taken (or not) in previous emergencies, irrespective of what has been learned in this one. I can't find any recent studies calling masking or social distancing into question as a beneficial strategy; I would certainly like to see them so please post.
Click to expand...

At the molecular level Covid is not structurally that different From influenzas. There are NO studies on the efficacy of mandated universal mask wear in non clinical environments. Exactly what the CDC link posted yesterday said. There still are none.

There is a bunch of “I reviewed old studies” and have a new take but that came after political pressure took over for science. Which of these has a better shot at getting the money? I want to prove the masks you mandate governments work or I want to prove they don’t?

That science is not profitable requires it to be beholden to others. In history it was churches, now it is government. Government gets what it wants.
 
Iprof said:
So tell us your wisdom on how to deal with Covid-19 and protect yourself. We can't wait.
Click to expand...

I have been very consistent and I will tell you again.

Covid Is a respiratory disease and there is no way to kill it nor stop it.

Since we know that the elderly and those with comorbidities are most at risk I will develop strict protocols to protect those people, including proper mask wear by healthcare workers.

I would send everyone else back to work. Manage it similar to Obama and H1N1...
 
MonacoMike said:
At the molecular level Covid is not structurally that different From influenzas. There are NO studies on the efficacy of mandated universal mask wear in non clinical environments. Exactly what the CDC link posted yesterday said. There still are none.

There is a bunch of “I reviewed old studies” and have a new take but that came after political pressure took over for science. Which of these has a better shot at getting the money? I want to prove the masks you mandate governments work or I want to prove they don’t?
Click to expand...
Actually there are numerous studies on the efficacy of mandated universal mask wear. Here is a brand new one:
To mask or not to mask: Modeling the potential for face mask use by the general public to curtail the COVID-19 pandemic
"In conclusion, our findings suggest that face mask use should be as nearly universal (i.e., nation-wide) as possible and implemented without delay, even if most masks are homemade and of relatively low quality. This measure could contribute greatly to controlling the COVID-19 pandemic, with the benefit greatest in conjunction with other non-pharmaceutical interventions that reduce community transmission. Despite uncertainty, the potential for benefit, the lack of obvious harm, and the precautionary principle lead us to strongly recommend as close to universal (homemade, unless medical masks can be used without diverting healthcare supply) mask use by the general public as possible."
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2468042720300117#bbib43

Is this perfect knowledge? Of course not and the authors caveat their findings elsewhere in the paper. But it does add to the body of evidence, which is now overwhelming.
Seemingly, you want the perfect trial showing whether masks stop or reduce a person's chance of getting the virus. I assume you would volunteer to be among the mask-less subjects who get shot in the face with live virus to see if you get it or not. I, for one, would choose to be in the group that got to wear masks.
 
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