The Official 450 Express Bridge Owners Club

The Bill Collector said:
It's not true for my M3 KVH, I spent $100 and it's working great !!!
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I would have probably looked into satellite if I had Direct TV at home. We usually only watch TV on the boat at night and go with Apple TV, Netflix, Hulu etc to watch a movie. In the morning I watch local Los Angeles news streaming or with a small digital HD antenna that came with the boat or Fox Nation streaming to catch up on events. The KVH dome is just a "hood ornament" up on the spoiler.
 
Sunsets and shower boxes

Well, replaced the salon AC condensate box (shower box) with one that will hopefully pump more than 50% of the time. I would find it full, pump running, push the float down, and then it would pump...no pattern. Solution=replaced. Changed from Rule to Seaflo. I did confirm there is no check valve in the bilge line to the drain as I took the hose off and hot salt water poured in coming from the midship AC. Need to find/install a check valve as the condensate box cycles about every 5 minutes from backflow through the pump.

My wife brought down dinner from the house and we sat for a bit and enjoyed the view before the boat finished beating me up a little.

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Forrestkk said:
Sunsets and shower boxes

Well, replaced the salon AC condensate box (shower box) with one that will hopefully pump more than 50% of the time. I would find it full, pump running, push the float down, and then it would pump...no pattern. Solution=replaced. Changed from Rule to Seaflo. I did confirm there is no check valve in the bilge line to the drain as I took the hose off and hot salt water poured in coming from the midship AC. Need to find/install a check valve as the condensate box cycles about every 5 minutes from backflow through the pump.

My wife brought down dinner from the house and we sat for a bit and enjoyed the view before the boat finished beating me up a little.

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Beautiful sunset pictures! Keep us updated on the shower box fix.

I made the hour and twenty minute drive last night to prep the boat for this weekend. There is lots of activity in our marina with all of the Transpac racers getting ready to head to Hawaii. Over in the general section of CSR there is a “must read” thread about the NoFlex product. It has made an amazing difference in the maintenance of our black water tank along with all of our non-Sea Ray friends that we have recommended the product to. Earlier in this thread I went through the maintenance I do with our grey water sump. After a new post in the NoFlex thread came up, I am now trying out the use of a Clorox bleach tablet in the sump. I’ll let you know if it helps keep the box clean.
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Forrest,

RE saltwater back flowing into your new AC condensation sump box. Yes, there should be a check valve in the outflow hose of that box. As you know, this hose connects to the main drain, then overboard. For all the other hoses that connect to the main drain, they connect on the top. For some stupid reason, at least on my boat, the condensation hose from the sump box connects to the SIDE of the main drain PVC pipe (sounds like your does too). After a period of time, sand/debris collect on the bottom of the main drain pipe so the water level in the pipe is higher than it normally would be. This causes seawater to now drain back into your sump box. Not to be an alarmist, but if the sump box fails and no check valve, this could sink a boat.

I would suggest 2 things: Install a check valve which it sounds like you are doing. Secondly, inspect the inside of your main drain. The best way I have found to do this is to go under the galley sink, remove the panel at the back to gain access to the main drain. Then remove the galley sink hose that is connected at the end of the main drain PVC pipe (at least it is on mine) and look inside, or use a camera. Then either use a plumbers snake or a hose (or both) and flush everything out. Hopefully, that will lower the water level in the main drain so as to not backflow into the sump.

Larry
 
LMBoat said:
Forrest,

RE saltwater back flowing into your new AC condensation sump box. Yes, there should be a check valve in the outflow hose of that box. As you know, this hose connects to the main drain, then overboard. For all the other hoses that connect to the main drain, they connect on the top. For some stupid reason, at least on my boat, the condensation hose from the sump box connects to the SIDE of the main drain PVC pipe (sounds like your does too). After a period of time, sand/debris collect on the bottom of the main drain pipe so the water level in the pipe is higher than it normally would be. This causes seawater to now drain back into your sump box. Not to be an alarmist, but if the sump box fails and no check valve, this could sink a boat.

I would suggest 2 things: Install a check valve which it sounds like you are doing. Secondly, inspect the inside of your main drain. The best way I have found to do this is to go under the galley sink, remove the panel at the back to gain access to the main drain. Then remove the galley sink hose that is connected at the end of the main drain PVC pipe (at least it is on mine) and look inside, or use a camera. Then either use a plumbers snake or a hose (or both) and flush everything out. Hopefully, that will lower the water level in the main drain so as to not backflow into the sump.

Larry
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Not being an alarmist at all. Agree the side mount for that condensate sump is poor engineering. Even worse, the raw water drain, as you mentioned, is almost directly above on mine giving no chance for the water level to go down. In the 30 secs I had the hose off with the midship AC running 2.5 gallons (hand pumped it out into a 5 gallon bucket that filled half way) went into the boat. If left unattended it would be game over unless the fresh water tank bilge pump could keep up. Assume thats where it would spill over to before getting into the salon.

Check valve on order and will do the main drain flush, maybe today.

Check valve, putting this up near the main drain connection

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Condensate drain connection behind entertainment/electrical cabinet
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Raw water drain in same location as above
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Day trip to Noriego Point in Destin Harbor...fun day for the kids and for the adults watching all the tourists act crazy. 3.5 feet is indeed the draft, rudders being the commanding piece of equipment. Had about 3" of clearance. The tide was coming in or we would have had to push out a bit. Had a Crusiers 60 Cantius pull in next to us and they nosed in and beached the boat, probably what I will do next time.

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Forrestkk said:
Day trip to Noriego Point in Destin Harbor...fun day for the kids and for the adults watching all the tourists act crazy. 3.5 feet is indeed the draft, rudders being the commanding piece of equipment. Had about 3" of clearance. The tide was coming in or we would have had to push out a bit. Had a Crusiers 60 Cantius pull in next to us and they nosed in and beached the boat, probably what I will do next time.

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Looks beautiful Kevin!

We are wrapping up a third night in Avalon. A good friend of ours had a epic day kite fishing that included a 170lb blue fin tuna. He brought us a little for sushi tonight!
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And later in the evening:
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Shoyrtt said:
Looks beautiful Kevin!

We are wrapping up a third night in Avalon. A good friend of ours had a epic day kite fishing that included a 170lb blue fin tuna. He brought us a little for sushi tonight!
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And later in the evening:
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Avalon is amazing, grew up in CA and only visited once. Lots of fancy golf carts! Looks like an amazing weekend.

That tuna looks amazing! A 170 lb tuna is incredible!
 
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Wow -- that's quite a plate of sashimi! We can't catch anything like that on KY Lake or Lake Barkley! I really like the pics you guys are posting. We hope to make it to the Florida coast next year if all goes well with our prep work -- mostly learning how to do everything with a boat like this.

We're getting our new floors installed next week. I'll post some pictures.

I'm on my first full tank of the diesel additive program. We have always had some soot on the transom and swim platform, but noticed quite a bit more recently. I presume the treatments are doing their work and breaking down some of the impurities in the tank. Hopefully it will subside a bit on the next tank. Do any of you have routine soot build-up? I have to clean the transom nearly every time out.
 
If you come down to the Florida coast you'll have to stop by, or we can motor out and meet you all somewhere.

Can't wait to see your new floors.

I do not get hardly any soot on my boat at all, maybe a light coat by the exhaust bypass, but nothing on the swim platform or transom locker. Did 7 hours into the gulf for a red snapper trip and never shut down and we were clean on return, same for our 10 hours shot across the gulf during our delivery trip.

Black soot usually indicates overfueling (rolling coal) which gives you a lot of power, or restricted charge air which would give you low power. Either will get your EGTs WAY up, which is not good. Other causes could be a dirty air filter not allowing enough air for the turbo to compress for the scheduled fuel injection, or a restricted after-cooler causing a charge air restriction. Could take a look at inlet/outlet of the after cooler?
 
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keithmo said:
Wow -- that's quite a plate of sashimi! We can't catch anything like that on KY Lake or Lake Barkley! I really like the pics you guys are posting. We hope to make it to the Florida coast next year if all goes well with our prep work -- mostly learning how to do everything with a boat like this.

We're getting our new floors installed next week. I'll post some pictures.

I'm on my first full tank of the diesel additive program. We have always had some soot on the transom and swim platform, but noticed quite a bit more recently. I presume the treatments are doing their work and breaking down some of the impurities in the tank. Hopefully it will subside a bit on the next tank. Do any of you have routine soot build-up? I have to clean the transom nearly every time out.
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Keith,
Are you doing your interior or exterior floors? I can't wait to see the finished product!

As far as your soot issue, I'm afraid I can't add anything to what Kevin suggested. I have been following the Frank Webster tips on fuel maintenance and have been adding Power Service Diesel Kleen at fill up. I get the 80oz bottle and store it in the starboard side compartment of the cockpit. It treats up to 250 gallons, so I put half the bottle in each tank and it seems to be happy.
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PORT Engine Pan filling (cont)

But first, what it looks like at 0430 from our dock before we headed out fishing.

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After about eight hours on the water, port engine pan full again. I had discovered the newly replaced shaft seal dripping dynamically after solving the majority of the rain water intrusion. The shaft seal has no static leak at all. After some reading, found that it could be some dirt between the carbon and stainless collar. Recommended fix was push back the bellows and let the water flush the sealing surface. Did that right before we left so it would be wet when the shaft started spinning. We did not have any dripping at low speeds, so I was pretty hopeful and kept my eye on the bilge lights all day and neither came on that I saw. Unfortunately, I will be doing a fresh water and WD-40 wipe down today of everything I can touch in the ER.

So, next step is to recompress the bellows, and if that doesn't fix it have to haul and lap the seal. I did read you could try some 600 grit sand paper, but the amount of water that comes in with the bellows pushed back makes that seem unlikely, might work for a smaller boat.

Has anyone else dealt with fixing a PSS seal in the water or have any other tricks?
 
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Forrestkk said:
PORT Engine Pan filling (cont)

But first, what it looks like at 0430 form our dock before we headed out fishing

View attachment 109269

After about eight hours on the water, port engine pan full again. I had discovered the newly replaced shaft seal dripping dynamically after solving the majority of the rainwater intrusion. The shaft seal has no static leak at all. After some reading, found that it could be some dirt between the carbon and stainless collar. Recommended fix was push back the bellows and let the water flush the sealing surface. Did that right before we left so it would be wet when the shaft started spinning. We did not have any dripping at low speeds, so I was pretty hopeful and kept my eye on the bilge lights all day and neither came on that I saw. Unfortunately, I will be doing a fresh water and WD-40 wipe down today of everything I can touch in the ER.

So, next step is to recompress the bellows, and if that doesn't fix it have to haul and lap the seal. I did read you could try some 600 grit sandpaper, but the amount of water that comes in with the bellows lush back makes that seem unlikely, might work for a smaller boat.

Has anyone else dealt with fixing a PSS seal in the water or have any other tricks?
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Update to the shaft seal issue. I took the set screws out and the SS collar didn't even move. Either the boatyard never pre-loaded the bellows or it slipped. I managed to compress it with my hand about 3/4" of an inch, which is not enough. Still leaking under power, so my neighbor got ahold of a belt tension jack https://www.amazon.com/Supco-Belt-Tension-Jack/dp/B008FM8BM4 to compress the full 1".

Also, didn't realize you could get mist from a dripless shaft seal, but I think my starboard seal is doing that as I have had a bit of mist that I couldn't identify that looks like crankcase mist. Slightly apprehensive to mess with a shaft seal that isn't leaking water, but just a fine mist. Will see how the port goes before I start playing with the starboard. Here are the dripless instructions if you ever need them - https://www.pyiinc.com/downloads/pss-shaft-seal/pss-pro-seal-instructions.pdf.
 
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Kevin, I wish I could help you with your shaft seal issue. Maybe try posting the question in the general section for a better response.

I ran upon this picture of a 440 EB and the owner who came up with a Bimini top for the cockpit. I really like the design. Notice how the eisenglass on the flybridge connects with the top and how open the area looks. It also has eisenglass covers to close up the cockpit. It looks like the stainless structure is fairly simple with the two attachment points on the stern locker and the upper hoop. There also appears to be a strut on the port side and probably one to starboard there as well. The stern locker location will not work on our boats as that rail on the 440 appears to be fixed and on the 450 it moves with the stern locker door. I like the concept, now if I can find a canvas shop to modify a few things to build it for me!
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Shoyrtt said:
Kevin, I wish I could help you with your shaft seal issue. Maybe try posting the question in the general section for a better response.

I ran upon this picture of a 440 EB and the owner who came up with a Bimini top for the cockpit. I really like the design. Notice how the eisenglass on the flybridge connects with the top and how open the area looks. It also has eisenglass covers to close up the cockpit. It looks like the stainless structure is fairly simple with the two attachment points on the stern locker and the upper hoop. There also appears to be a strut on the port side and probably one to starboard there as well. The stern locker location will not work on our boats as that rail on the 440 appears to be fixed and on the 450 it moves with the stern locker door. I like the concept, now if I can find a canvas shop to modify a few things to build it for me!
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Oh, I'll nail down that shaft seal without a haul. Used that belt tension jack tonight and got almost and inch of compression. Will see of that locks it down.

That is a nice looking bimini on the 440, I like @keithmo setup too. Odd to see it without a swim platform and the ladder just right there on the transom.
 
Question to all of my fellow 450 EB and maybe Sundancer owners. Do you ever have issues with the dual fuel fill locations with diesel shooting out at fill up? I have to watch and listen very carefully for maybe the first sign of fuel coming out the vent or the change of pitch to hopefully stop fueling before overflow. :(
We were heading back this morning from another weekend on the island. Our friends have a 45’ Silverton (nice boat BTW!) and we raced back to Long Beach to the fuel dock. For the record, the Sea Ray won, but I struggled at the pump, dealing with the clean up after another over fill. Our friends pulled out this gadget, the Clean Way Fuel Fill. They had the same problem with the Silverton and said this was a game changer for them. Has anyone here used it?
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And a couple of incredible pictures from our trip.
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Shoyrtt said:
Question to all of my fellow 450 EB and maybe Sundancer owners. Do you ever have issues with the dual fuel fill locations with diesel shooting out at fill up? I have to watch and listen very carefully for maybe the first sign of fuel coming out the vent or the change of pitch to hopefully stop fueling before overflow. :(
We were heading back this morning from another weekend on the island. Our friends have a 45’ Silverton (nice boat BTW!) and we raced back to Long Beach to the fuel dock. For the record, the Sea Ray won, but I struggled at the pump, dealing with the clean up after another over fill. Our friends pulled out this gadget, the Clean Way Fuel Fill. They had the same problem with the Silverton and said this was a game changer for them. Has anyone here used it?
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And a couple of incredible pictures from our trip.
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@Shoyrtt, yep...mine does it every time.

I haven't used that gadget, but I'm going to check it out!

Nice pics!
 
Prop Shaft Alignment question; does anyone have issues hand turning their props?

My surveyor noticed it as he could barely rotate the props from the outside during the haul out, but he didn't really make a big deal out of them being difficult to turn. As I have been chasing my port shaft seal issue (the starboard started leaking this weekend :(), a neighbor of mine called PYI (they make the PSS) and they said the 450 EB was on their watch list as a problem boat due to the way the shafts align with the log.

I started digging and found some discussions of prop shafts being hard to turn when they were out of alignment. I cannot turn the shafts at all from inside the ER. How are everyone else's shafts for "spinabilty" by hand?

Spectre Island (hazy here this weekend)
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Disconnect the prop shaft coupling from the trans and see if it spins easier. If so, you have an alignment issue. If it does not, it is most likely the cutless bearing, next would be a bent shaft.
 
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