Using the emergency start feature

Gunn

Gunn

Well-Known Member
TECHNICAL Contributor
Oct 4, 2006
2,335
Potomac River - MD
Boat Info
2003 280DA and 1995 Sea Ray 175
Engines
Twin 4.3l and 3.0l, all w/ AlphaI GenII drives
I have a twin setup with one battery dedicated to the generator and starboard engine, and the other engine connected to a two group battery set. Yesterday I started my starboard engine and then tried the port engine. Batteries were dead (another issue to fix!). Anyway, I tried to use the emergency start switch at the helm next to the starter switches. I held in the switch and then pressed the starter switch. But what happened was I tripped a breaker in the rear port side EIM (ignition breaker IIRC). I reset the breaker, and proceeded to start the generator which charged the batteries in order for me to start the other engine.

I have tried to use this emergency start feature probably three times now and each time I have tripped that breaker without starting the other engine. I must be doing something wrong? Somehow I'm supplying too much current causing that breaker to trip. I think I have even tried to shut down the running engine first, but no change in the results.

What is the correct procedure?! :huh:

Tom
 
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I push the emergency start, then start the engine... I have never tripped a breaker... I've new batteries now, and have not had to use the emergency start lately...
 
I myself have never tripped a breaker either and used mine this weekend. However it is my port side I have to use it on. That is the side that the "house" and port engine are on (two batts). Then one for stbrd and one for genny. I set the genny up on it's own but I have a second emergency start for the genny in case all else fails. I have never seen the port and genny tied together before, however I am not real familiar with the newer models. May want to double check the set up of the stbrd side just to be sure something isn't crossed wrong. I ran across that problem when I bought this boat and had to redo it all.
 
I have the same problem. I had dead/weak batteries when I launched back in March. I let the batteries charge for 1/2 hour but was only able to get the starboard engine running. Once I had that one running I tried to use the emergency jump start to get the port engine running. I tripped the circuit breaker down in the cabin and the starboard engine shut off. I bought 4 new AGM batteries earlier this year.

Last Friday I returned to the boat to discover that I plugged in the shore power, but never flipped the generator switch and killed all the batteries during the week. Same procedure, 1/2 hour on charge and the starboard engine fired up. tried the port engine with the emergency switch and tripped the circuit breaker. :huh: I gave up and let the charger run overnight. I am not sure why the port engine requires a stronger battery to fire up.

I suspect I have a bad ground, but can't find it. A few weeks ago, I disconnected and reconnected all the power and ground wires from the engine to the bulk head and everything looked good. My next step is to double check the connections at the battery switch.
 
Loose cable at the battery terminal? Cruddy connector?
 
There is a solenoid that jumps the batteries together. I had a similar issue where the solenoid was bad and not connecting the banks together properly. Replacing the solenoid solved the problem.
 
The emergency start switch is just a solenoid that connects the port and stbd battery banks. If you have dead batteries on one side, then the emergency start switch is just going to connect dead batteries to ones that have enough of a charge to crank one engine. In other words, don't expect miracles, particularly if there is more than one dead battery on the discharged side. With completely dead batteries, you will need to charge them at least partially before trying to use the emergency start switch. If the voltage on the combined batteries drops to below about 10.5V (I am not sure of the exact voltage so this is approximate) when you try to start the engines, the amp draw is so great that the circuit breaker is going to trip.

The emergency start switch works best best used when the low side will turn over the engine, but not quite start it. Then, crank the side that will start, let the engine smooth out and idle a minute or so, press the cross-feed and hold it 15-30 seconds, then start the weak side.
 
What Frank said....think of it like putting jumper cables from one car to another. If the car being jumped has completely dead batteries....the jumping car isn't going to have enough omph to get the jumped car going. There needs to be some life on the side with the low batteries for the system to work.
 
fwebster said:
... If the voltage on the combined batteries drops to below about 10.5V (I am not sure of the exact voltage so this is approximate) when you try to start the engines, the amp draw is so great that the circuit breaker is going to trip.

The emergency start switch works best best used when the low side will turn over the engine, but not quite start it. Then, crank the side that will start, let the engine smooth out and idle a minute or so, press the cross-feed and hold it 15-30 seconds, then start the weak side.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the advice and information all. All makes sense now...lower voltage needs more current, tripping the breaker... :thumbsup:

Now about the actual operation of the switch, just to be clear. Do I try to start the weak side -while- holding the cross-feed switch? Or do I release the cross-feed after 15-30 seconds and then try to start? If it's equivalent to jump-starting, I would assume I continue to hold it in while starting.

Thanks,

Tom
 
The emergency start switch connects all the batteries together when pressed so you need to hold it down while trying to use the emergency start feature.
 
rondds said:
Loose cable at the battery terminal? Cruddy connector?
Click to expand...

Ron, starting my port engine has always caused the radio to cut out and the C80 sometimes resets. 2 years ago, I tested all of the batteries and they all seemed fine. I rotated the batteries but nothing improved. I thought all my batteries were getting weak and replacing them would solve the problem. (They were 5 years old) So earlier this year I installed 4 new AGM's and made sure all the connections were good and fully charged the batteries. I started the engines and my situation was only marginally better. The radio still cuts out when I start the port engine.

A few weeks ago I went hunting for loose connections. I disconnected and cleaned the ground connections on the engine block and on the main distribution panel. The connections all looked good and were tight. After doing this, no change. I am still hunting for my gremlin. :smt009
 
Vince:
I milked two Sam's Club group 31 lead acid batts (in parallel) for 4 seasons. I took them home in the winter, watched the water levels and they hung in there. By the 4th season, it was touch and go. Had to use the EMERG START a couple of times that season. Interestingly, I was "jumping" off the port battery (single battery), which was on it's 8th season.

Anyway, my point is that as the batteries were approaching death, my GPS would shut off when I started up. Also, the horn (electric, not air) was weak, sometimes only one trumpet would sound. Once I replaced them, the horn returned to normal and the GPS stayed on when starting the stbd engine. Could it be that your problem is with the radio power feed? Does the C80 stay on?
 
It's interesting that your accessories run off the port battery bank. Typically, with SRs, I thought it was the stbd that handled house duties.
 
mistercomputerman said:
Vince

Can you hear the solenoid cut in when you press the Emergency Start?
Click to expand...

I didn't think to listen for it. I pushed the emergency start and 3 seconds later, the starboard engine shut off. Do you know if the solenoid behind the emergency switch or is buried in the bilge somewhere?

There is one item I didn't mention because I don't think it mattered. When I bought the boat from a Repo dealer in Rockville Maryland, they gave me 1 key and told that was all I needed. I thought it was odd and challenged it. They said that is how Sea Ray wired it. After getting the boat home I removed the panel to see this special wiring and discovered that someone cut the wires and bypassed the port engine key switch. I was going to undo their little handy work, but decided to leave it alone since it looked like they did a pretty good splice job and I didn't have a lot of play in the wires if I cut it out.

The 2 round thingy's are the key switches. You can see that the bottom one is cut out and the wires go straight to the circuit breaker. Since each engine is on it's own circuit breaker, it shouldn't be a problem... Right?

P1020792.jpg
 
Vince_nj1 said:
....Last Friday I returned to the boat to discover that I plugged in the shore power, but never flipped the generator switch and killed all the batteries during the week. Same procedure, 1/2 hour on charge and the starboard engine fired up. tried the port engine with the emergency switch and tripped the circuit breaker. :huh: I gave up and let the charger run overnight.....
Click to expand...

Vince,

I say it's good in a way that you didn't start the engine on the dead side as you were about to overload you alternator and shorten it's life. Since you're near the spot where you had shore power it was best to flip the breakers and let the charger
do it's majic. If you were on water, IMO, the best course of action is to fire up the genny and let the charger work for some time.

Vince_nj1 said:
Ron, starting my port engine has always caused the radio to cut out and the C80 sometimes resets. 2 years ago, I tested all of the batteries and they all seemed fine. I rotated the batteries but nothing improved. I thought all my batteries were getting weak and replacing them would solve the problem. .....
Click to expand...

My 320 had the same simptoms. I never had batteries issues and/or loose connections, but to prevent electronics failure I turned everything off when starting the engines.
 
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Emergency Start.jpgHello,

I'm trying to install a emergency start circuit. My old one was trashed. I made this drawing to reflect my best guess as to how it should be wired up. Please take a look and tell me if Im correct.

I changed the ground from the "I" lug to the mounting terminal. It is a brand new solenoid and all the connections are tight. When I push the button, I don't hear the solenoid click. I need a second person to help troubleshoot. More to follow.

Thank you
 

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I had a similar issue last season. Port side would crank rightup while the starboard side had to have time to charge up. Using the crossover featurewas only slightly successful; most of the time not. The solenoid was checked along with everyground in the boat. I finally traced theproblem to one of the starboard batteries which had an intermittent bad cell. Sometimes it would allow current flow and sometime she would shut the whole system down. It’s a pain dragging the batteriesout to have them checked properly but that is how I found and corrected my problem.
 
jimmy.ortiz@verizon.net said:
Hello,

I'm trying to install a emergency start circuit. My old one was trashed. I made this drawing to reflect my best guess as to how it should be wired up. Please take a look and tell me if Im correct.

Thank youView attachment 21339
Click to expand...

I think your drawing is mostly correct. You may want to check the "I" terminal. It may be wired differently on some solenoids. It is sometimes common with the switch wiper and used to send 12V to the coils when starting (when used as starting solenoid). You may be better off trying to use the mounting bracket for ground.
 
Great info folks - Here's my situation. Turned port key - nothing - held down "emergency start switch". Engine cranked and fired up and continued to run as long as I had the switch held down - as soon as I let up on the switch, port engine idles down / stalls. Can repeat this multiple times in a row - same results - thoughts?
 
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