3116 Engine Overheat - 1998 40 Sea Ray Sedan Bridge

ddx77

ddx77

Member
May 16, 2014
35
Fort Lauderdale, Florida
Boat Info
1998 40 Sedan Bridge
Engines
3116's
Hello, need some opinions because I can't seem to get a straight answer from anyone at the moment.

I know 3116's don't like to be overheated...

Was running boat at cruise, when the port engine overheated and shut down. Got back to dock on one engine, opened engine hatches and coolant had blown everywhere. The next day I refilled the coolant checked impellors and hoses (all were fine) and restarted the engine. I immediately noticed a knocking sound and blue smoke out of exhaust, smoke cleared up after about a minute. The knocking was subtle but was noticeable (like a bad injector). Ran the boat at idle, then 1300 rpms for two hours, no over heating. Took the boat out, slowly increased rpms, no overheating and no smoke along with good oil pressure. Got to about 1700 rpms, just after the turbo kicked in and started blowing black smoke, brought the engine back to 1000 rpms and went back to dock. I am going to take oil samples tomorrow, but there is no water showing on the dipstick.

Any thoughts? Thanks in advance. Drew
 
First of all I wouldn't run the boat any more, although you've put a couple hours on it already, and all this is serious enough your going to have to get CAT in. There was another 3116 that had a very similar over-heat a couple months back. I'll see if I can find that thread. You can try finding it as well. @Strecker25 @ttmott @The Bill Collector ...You guys remember that? Very similar, blew out the coolant...

But you have a bunch of stuff going on, Overheat, then no overheat, no smoke, blue smoke and black smoke. Did you check the sea strainers? Also, the 3116/3126's do not have an auto shut down, so something killed that engine.

I think the most concerning is the blue smoke typically due to burning oil, and that with the knocking sound says something in the head or pistons isn't happy. Black smoke is not enough air, so something with the turbo/aftercooler.
 
@dtfeld is correct that Gen of 3116/3126 do not have an over-temp shut-down. What was the temperature indicated when you noticed? Your Sea Ray Systems Monitor should have been alarming also.
There is another possibility if the engine did not initially go hot and that would be a blown head gasket - that would blow the coolant out of the engine.
I seem to recall a discussion on another 3116 over temp but couldn't find the thread.
Drew - give the guys a call at Shearwater Marine in Stuart. Adolph is the service manager.
 
Thank you all for your input! The temperature was just over 210 when the system monitor went off, pulled back the throttles immediately and when I did the engine shut down and would not restart.

There is no white smoke to tell me that it's a head gasket but I am no expert, the coolant definitely drains out the exhaust when the boat sits for a few days. I say that because there is no sign of it inside engine compartment.

@ttmott Thank you for the Shearwater lead, I will call them for sure. Everyone is so busy I can't get anyone down to take a look.

@dtfeld Thank you for the links to look for, I did do a search but with your info I will try again. Thank you.

Here are a couple of videos but probably won't tell much. The smoke is lighter in the video than in person, it's definitely blue.

Initial Startup - https://photos.app.goo.gl/ZFbL9Sn5anXTyMVq7

After two hours of running, no load, steady at 190 degrees and proper oil pressure - https://photos.app.goo.gl/TPBW8zb16AVc4Qmo7
 
Well, it doesn’t sound bad. Usually if a diesel starts and runs, generally speaking, internally all is good. But if you are leaking coolant that’s not good. Does the smoke smell sweet like coolant?

One thing I notice is your turbo isn’t white/ painted…like the paint burned off? The turbo on this engine is coolant cooled, so that might be a point where the coolant entered the system. Additionally, problems with the turbo would produce black smoke under load.

Also, the 3116 Aftercooler is coolant cooled. Have you ever had the aftercooler cleaned/pressure tested? Air leaks in the aftercooler would also produce black smoke under load.
 
I can smell coolant outboard by the exhaust when the engine is running, yes. It's mild but I can smell it.

Both engines had the turbos rebuilt about 600 hours ago, I would have to look at the receipts. The reason they are that color is because I thought they were painted with a clearcoat before being installed, so they were never painted, it's very light surface rust. Aftercoolers were cleaned and tested about the same time, but honestly they may be due. Time flies, they may all need to be retested and possibly rebuilt.

The port engine is a little louder than the starboard for sure, almost sounds like a stuck injector noise. But today while it was running for the couple of hours, it sure sounded healthy. I was going to take oil samples from both engines today but ran out of time, I may try this weekend. There's no water on the dipstick though.

I have had the boat 9 years and preventive maintenance has always been a priority.
 
Check your water pump belt.

It has probably broken and you may not have noticed.
There should be two belts - 1 for the alternator and 1 for the water pump (short one).
 
Just a follow up. Had an engine person out. They boroscoped the engine, it's definitely shot. Researching my options now, there really isn't an inexpensive one.
 
Curious... what did they see on the boroscope to make that determination?
 
ddx77 said:
There was a lot of scoring in three of the 6 cylinders, also a lot of blow by, and the engine is making oil.

@ttmott - I did call Shearwater thank you, they don't work on Cat's. Thank you again though, I appreciate it.
Click to expand...

Sorry to hear your problems with the engine.

Curious what your plan is? Reman or Long Block?
 
ddx77 said:
Just a follow up. Had an engine person out. They boroscoped the engine, it's definitely shot. Researching my options now, there really isn't an inexpensive one.
Click to expand...
Can they sleeve it in the boat?
You'll probably have to remove the floor in the solon to do it. If it can be done in the boat you are probably looking at close to 20K for sleeving and head refirb.
ddx77 said:
There was a lot of scoring in three of the 6 cylinders, also a lot of blow by, and the engine is making oil.

@ttmott - I did call Shearwater thank you, they don't work on Cat's. Thank you again though, I appreciate it.
Click to expand...
That's too bad - they did a bang up job on my QSM11's.
 
ttmott said:
@dtfeld is correct that Gen of 3116/3126 do not have an over-temp shut-down. What was the temperature indicated when you noticed? Your Sea Ray Systems Monitor should have been alarming also.
<snip>

Don't mean to hijack the thread, but I'm currently in the middle of upgrading the dash and gauges on a 1996 model with 3126 CATS.

The VDO Veratron series oil & water temp gauges require a special sending unit.

Identified and changed out the oil pressure sender - easy/no problem.

On the 3126 there are THREE sending units in the thermostat housing.

Two with two wires each, and one with a single wire.

I recalled reading somewhere that one of these 3 is specifically for engine shutdown.

That aside, can anyone help me identify which sender I need to swap out?

I've already removed the factory dash & gauges so jumping the wires at the senders won't help me.

Suggestions?

BEST !

RWS
Click to expand...
 
CORRECTION NOTED IN RED BELOW:

ttmott said: ↑
@dtfeld is correct that Gen of 3116/3126 do not have an over-temp shut-down. What was the temperature indicated when you noticed? Your Sea Ray Systems Monitor should have been alarming also.
<snip>

Don't mean to hijack the thread, but I'm currently in the middle of upgrading the dash and gauges on a 1996 model with 3126 CATS.

The VDO Veratron series oil & water temp gauges require a special sending unit.

Identified and changed out the oil pressure sender - easy/no problem.

On the 3126 there are THREE sending units in the thermostat housing.

Two with two wires each, and one with a single wire.

CORRECTION: One large sender with 3 wires, a smaller one with two and an even smaller one with a single wire connection.

I recalled reading somewhere that one of these 3 is specifically for engine shutdown.

That aside, can anyone help me identify which sender I need to swap out?

I've already removed the factory dash & gauges so jumping the wires at the senders won't help me.

Suggestions?

BEST !

RWS
 
Maybe A Dancer said:
CORRECTION NOTED IN RED BELOW:

ttmott said: ↑
@dtfeld is correct that Gen of 3116/3126 do not have an over-temp shut-down. What was the temperature indicated when you noticed? Your Sea Ray Systems Monitor should have been alarming also.
<snip>

Don't mean to hijack the thread, but I'm currently in the middle of upgrading the dash and gauges on a 1996 model with 3126 CATS.

The VDO Veratron series oil & water temp gauges require a special sending unit.

Identified and changed out the oil pressure sender - easy/no problem.

On the 3126 there are THREE sending units in the thermostat housing.

Two with two wires each, and one with a single wire.

CORRECTION: One large sender with 3 wires, a smaller one with two and an even smaller one with a single wire connection.

I recalled reading somewhere that one of these 3 is specifically for engine shutdown.

That aside, can anyone help me identify which sender I need to swap out?

I've already removed the factory dash & gauges so jumping the wires at the senders won't help me.

Suggestions?

BEST !

RWS
Click to expand...

I was always under the impression the only way they shut down is the fuel shutoff solenoid and it's not tied into the monitor system in any way. If that's wrong, I'd be pleasantly surprised
 
On the Sea ray side of things:

We have to differentiate between what the Sea Ray Systems Monitor does and the (Sea Fire on my boat) Fire Suppression system does.

The Sea Ray monitor system does exactly that, monitors the engine for hi coolant temp and low oil pressure and the emergency bilge and sump pumps. On some models, it may be wired to monitor things like transmission or exhaust temp, but regardless it does not and cannot shut the engine down.

The fire suppression system will shut the engine down by cutting the fuel solenoid and killing power to the bilge blowers. This is hardwired into all three engines (P, S and Gen) and the blowers.

On the CAT side of things:

As far as 3 sensors on the coolant housing there should be a coolant temp sender that connects to the dash gauge, a second "sender" that goes to the on engine temp gauge, and a hi temperature switch that goes to the Sea Ray Monitor system. There is also a temp switch on the water pump that drives the air heater circuit.

There is a possibility for a few other switches and senders on the CAT schematic, a fuel pressure and a Low Water Level Switch...ie loss of coolant, but to my knowledge, these are not installed on the engines configurations Sea Ray installed.
 
There must have been some damage before. 210 is hot, but many vehicles today are set to run close to this. I'm sorry to hear. You figure out next steps yet?
 
douglee25 said:
There must have been some damage before. 210 is hot, but many vehicles today are set to run close to this. I'm sorry to hear. You figure out next steps yet?
Click to expand...

Working on my options now, I will follow up with what I finally decided shortly. Thanks again for everyone's assistance!
 
Sorry for the late follow up. So, engine rebuilder wanted $40k to rebuild my engine, with a finish time of about 4 months, then $5k for another guy to pull it and reinstall.

I found a rebuilt 3116 direct from Caterpillar with a 6 month warranty, $31k delivered, which also includes all the externals (heat exchanger, turbo, etc.) which are also rebuilt and warrantied. I still have to pay the guy to remove the old engine and install the new, but I will also have my old block which I have someone to buy for $5k, that helps with the install bill. I will have a yard bill as well but I do not anticipate being there that long.

There was no easy scenario, but at least this way the boat should be up and running by the second week of August, July 31st is my haul out date.

Thanks again for everyone who helped out, I appreciate it!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Forum statistics

Threads
113,225
Messages
1,428,915
Members
61,117
Latest member
cowiekc
Back
Top