410 Sundancer/Express Cruiser and 400 Sundancer/Express Cruiser **Official Thread**

[dtfeld]

Something isn’t right. 2900 is way high while running under load. So high I’ve never heard of 3126s doing that under load and that leads me to suspect your RPM reading are not accurate. Until you have accurate RPM reading, the rest of this is pure guess work and speculation.

I think the first order of business is to verify the Aetna’s are accurate (as in in +/- a couple RPM). You need to get a photo tach (Inexpensive from Amazon) and measure the RPMs on the fly wheel and compare to the Aetnas at various RPM. This can be done at the dock. There could be issues with the senders or wiring.

As far as smoke/soot, as it gets colder, 3126s will produce a little white smoke at start up until they come up to operating temperature, especially if the Air Heaters are not working or it’s very cold. Black smoke/ sorting would indicate overloading or issues with the turbos or fuel delivery.

Let’s hope this is an instrumentation issue.

 

[gmaki]

Something isn’t right. 2900 is way high while running under load. So high I’ve never heard of 3126s doing that under load and that leads me to suspect your RPM reading are not accurate. Until you have accurate RPM reading, the rest of this is pure guess work and speculation.

I think the first order of business is to verify the Aetna’s are accurate (as in in +/- a couple RPM). You need to get a photo tach (Inexpensive from Amazon) and measure the RPMs on the fly wheel and compare to the Aetnas at various RPM. This can be done at the dock. There could be issues with the senders or wiring.

As far as smoke/soot, as it gets colder, 3126s will produce a little white smoke at start up until they come up to operating temperature, especially if the Air Heaters are not working or it’s very cold. Black smoke/ sorting would indicate overloading or issues with the turbos or fuel delivery.

Let’s hope this is an instrumentation issue.

I highly doubt it is the Aetnas but the photo tach was cheap so I ordered one and will check anyway.

The more I think about it, the more I am starting suspect perhaps dirty fuel filters are at least partly to blame. I just completed oil changes on both engines and next up was fuel filters anyway. But now I am wondering if maybe they are dirtier than I thought. Anyway I am going to prioritize that if for no other reason to eliminate them as a factor.

 

[Strecker25]

I highly doubt it is the Aetnas but the photo tach was cheap so I ordered one and will check anyway.

The more I think about it, the more I am starting suspect perhaps dirty fuel filters are at least partly to blame. I just completed oil changes on both engines and next up was fuel filters anyway. But now I am wondering if maybe they are dirtier than I thought. Anyway I am going to prioritize that if for no other reason to eliminate them as a factor.

They’re not cheap (for what they are) but the racor vacuum gauges are really nice for keeping tabs on the filter system as it reports the highest detected vacuum with a needle on the gauge.

https://www.mddistributorsstore.com/parker-racor/rk19671/bottom-mount-vacuum-gauge?gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAiAvdCrBhBREiwAX6-6UuS7IarWrLdObN3fKzxYtyFFMLyX3VPCGpUNjeABEI9lUcYYVK3yiBoCSPkQAvD_BwE

 

[Sgrochow]

+ 1 on @Strecker25's suggestion, they are great for a 1st level troubleshoot.

On another note, roughed in my Turbocater gauges today. (learned from @Strecker25)

Figured as long as I'm pulling wires, pulled some for Borel Mgf. raw water alarms. (learned from @Maybe A Dancer) Repurposed the Clarion remote hole for the "panel".

 

[Maybe A Dancer]

Dang that's a lotta holes in a swim platform!

Suspect the moisture entered via that rubrail that goes nearly all the way around that swim platform.

Surveyor stated it appeared that it wasn't fully mush, but not dry either.

Since the boat was on the hard and it was me doing the work, and the only cost was time and materials, I thought it best to open it up to get back to solid once again.

It was easily glassed in and smoothed out with a DA sander.

As the gorilla glue kicked off, reacting with the moisture, I saw some water droplets running out on the area where the sides become taller.

Tap it with a hammer now, or a Tramex moisture meter.

Solid/hard as a rock !

BEST !

RWS

 

[Maybe A Dancer]

+ 1 on @Strecker25's suggestion, they are great for a 1st level troubleshoot.

On another note, roughed in my Turbocater gauges today. (learned from @Strecker25)

Figured as long as I'm pulling wires, pulled some for Borel Mgf. raw water alarms. (learned from @Maybe A Dancer) Repurposed the Clarion remote hole for the "panel".

I used 1/4" black plexiglass from Amazon to fabricate my panels.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06XRD2VXQ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1

use these drill bits to avoid cracking it:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07D1B3B51/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Was happy with the results. Photos below

When done I'll show the process in more detail.

BEST !

RWS

 

[Stee6043]

+ 1 on @Strecker25's suggestion, they are great for a 1st level troubleshoot.

On another note, roughed in my Turbocater gauges today. (learned from @Strecker25)

Figured as long as I'm pulling wires, pulled some for Borel Mgf. raw water alarms. (learned from @Maybe A Dancer) Repurposed the Clarion remote hole for the "panel".

Dang, those are not the original dash panels, are they? They look great.

I'm curious - why raw water alarms? Don't you have the lights that show when your pumps come on?

 

[Sgrochow]

Dang, those are not the original dash panels, are they? They look great.

I'm curious - why raw water alarms? Don't you have the lights that show when your pumps come on?

Thanks, New dash panels from Flounder Pounder, a few years ago when I installed the Aetna tachs. The Borel panel is for engine overheats, that’s the way they label them. There is a sensor band around the exhaust that detects loss of raw water cooling before engine overheats or damage to wet exhaust occurs. (Hopefully!)

 

[Stee6043]

Thanks, New dash panels from Flounder Pounder, a few years ago when I installed the Aetna tachs. The Borel panel is for engine overheats, that’s the way they label them. There is a sensor band around the exhaust that detects loss of raw water cooling before engine overheats or damage to wet exhaust occurs. (Hopefully!)

Ahh that makes sense. They look slick...nice install!

 

[slipaway]

I am shopping for a 400(1997 - 1999) or 410(2000 - 2003) Sundancer. It is my understanding that Sea Ray used core in some of the years for the 400. Does anyone know what years?

I tried calling Sea Ray corporate customer service and was told to contact a dealer to find out what was used to manufacture the hulls. Does anyone have a contact number for Sea Ray that could tell me about the manufacturing of the boats?

Does anyone have a good comparison of the two models?

 

[Strecker25]

I am shopping for a 400(1997 - 1999) or 410(2000 - 2003) Sundancer. It is my understanding that Sea Ray used core in some of the years for the 400. Does anyone know what years?

I tried calling Sea Ray corporate customer service and was told to contact a dealer to find out what was used to manufacture the hulls. Does anyone have a contact number for Sea Ray that could tell me about the manufacturing of the boats?

Does anyone have a good comparison of the two models?

I think you will find any SERF hull is not cored anywhere below the top deck. As far as customer service, I had to call 3-4 times and finally got someone willing to share the drawings and info.

In terms of differences, basically the same overall but with small differences. Our 410 has a little more perceived headroom in the forward stateroom, the top deck appears to have a slightly higher “bubble” than our friends 400. I prefer the galley layout in the 400, as it has the cabinets go all the way to the ceiling where ours stop short. None of the differences were enough for us to strike a particular model - it all came down to condition and in our case, the desire for diesel power, ultimately landing on a 410.

 

[Chris L]

I am shopping for a 400(1997 - 1999) or 410(2000 - 2003) Sundancer. It is my understanding that Sea Ray used core in some of the years for the 400. Does anyone know what years?

I tried calling Sea Ray corporate customer service and was told to contact a dealer to find out what was used to manufacture the hulls. Does anyone have a contact number for Sea Ray that could tell me about the manufacturing of the boats?

Does anyone have a good comparison of the two models?

About a year ago I sent SeaRay an email
With the HIN asking them where it was built and whether the hull bottom was cored.

They replied with the info in 3 days. Basically, SERF hulls were built at the Merritt Island plant and the bottoms were solid glass as per the reply. Sides and decks were cored. This was for a 1998 400DA.

 

[ttmott]

I think you will find any SERF hull is not cored anywhere below the top deck. As far as customer service, I had to call 3-4 times and finally got someone willing to share the drawings and info.

In terms of differences, basically the same overall but with small differences. Our 410 has a little more perceived headroom in the forward stateroom, the top deck appears to have a slightly higher “bubble” than our friends 400. I prefer the galley layout in the 400, as it has the cabinets go all the way to the ceiling where ours stop short. None of the differences were enough for us to strike a particular model - it all came down to condition and in our case, the desire for diesel power, ultimately landing on a 410.

Plus both the 400DA and 410DA were made in 2000.
I also prefer the 400DA as there is a step completely around the back of the transom locker then down to the swim platform. It wasn't a crash and burn coming out of the transom door.
Years ago we discussed the coring in this forum and what we could determine the SERF (Merritt Island) boats were not cored and the SERP (Palm Coast) boats were. I know my 2000 400DA SERF did not have a cored hull.

 

[Stee6043]

Plus both the 400DA and 410DA were made in 2000.
I also prefer the 400DA as there is a step completely around the back of the transom locker then down to the swim platform. It wasn't a crash and burn coming out of the transom door.
Years ago we discussed the coring in this forum and what we could determine the SERF (Merritt Island) boats were not cored and the SERP (Palm Coast) boats were. I know my 2000 400DA SERF did not have a cored hull.

+1 on the step. It also makes a big difference if you're running with a tender pulled all the way up tight to the transom.

I'd buy either one. Great boats, great hull, lots of room for the size. Especially when you compare our boats to the newer 420's and 440's. Our 400/410's are far more spacious inside. Once they started splitting the showers from the crappers, they really ruined the interior layout in my opinion (though the exteriors of the newer boats are wayyyy sexier than our old hogs ).

 

[Strecker25]

+1 on the step. It also makes a big difference if you're running with a tender pulled all the way up tight to the transom.

I'd buy either one. Great boats, great hull, lots of room for the size. Especially when you compare our boats to the newer 420's and 440's. Our 400/410's are far more spacious inside. Once they started splitting the showers from the crappers, they really ruined the interior layout in my opinion (though the exteriors of the newer boats are wayyyy sexier than our old hogs ).

That shower split thing is so strange to me. We were close to a contract on a 2005 420, it had all the options and was beautiful, but the interior layout just didn’t impress me for the size of boat. Of course the materials were way nicer but I’m glad we ended up in the 410 instead. Oh, and it saved me about $70k so that sure helps, ha

 

[dtfeld]

I am shopping for a 400(1997 - 1999) or 410(2000 - 2003) Sundancer. It is my understanding that Sea Ray used core in some of the years for the 400. Does anyone know what years?

I tried calling Sea Ray corporate customer service and was told to contact a dealer to find out what was used to manufacture the hulls. Does anyone have a contact number for Sea Ray that could tell me about the manufacturing of the boats?

Does anyone have a good comparison of the two models?

I can verify the hull on a 2001 SERF model is solid glass below the water line. What may confuse the issue is Sea Ray glassed in wood pads in various parts to the boat were equipment might be screwed/mounted.

 

[Riptide III]

About a year ago I sent SeaRay an email
With the HIN asking them where it was built and whether the hull bottom was cored.

They replied with the info in 3 days. Basically, SERF hulls were built at the Merritt Island plant and the bottoms were solid glass as per the reply. Sides and decks were cored. This was for a 1998 400DA.

I also called. Same is true for a 1997 400DA

 

[hakunamatata]

Hello all, it’s been awhile since I’ve posted, or trolled the group. I hope all is going well with everyone. Wondering if anyone has mounted the Hurley H3O to their 410 Sundancer and can share a pic of the dinghy head on when it’s sitting on the davit? The reason I’m asking is I want to know how much room remains on the platform to get around the dinghy? I have a Highfield RIB with a 20hp Tohatsu and the pull on set-up isn’t working for me. Weighing this davit, or the dinghy caddy. I have searched the threads and haven’t found any good posts that will answer my question. Thanks in advance!

 

[Stee6043]

Hello all, it’s been awhile since I’ve posted, or trolled the group. I hope all is going well with everyone. Wondering if anyone has mounted the Hurley H3O to their 410 Sundancer and can share a pic of the dinghy head on when it’s sitting on the davit? The reason I’m asking is I want to know how much room remains on the platform to get around the dinghy? I have a Highfield RIB with a 20hp Tohatsu and the pull on set-up isn’t working for me. Weighing this davit, or the dinghy caddy. I have searched the threads and haven’t found any good posts that will answer my question. Thanks in advance!

Without the extension from Hurley I assume you'll have very little room on a 410 as you do not have the "upper platform" us 400 guys have. If you're running an extended platform maybe you'll end up with 6" +/- depending on the beam of the dinghy. If you're running the standard platform (like I used to have) you'll probably be snug up against the transom, or it may not work at all. I have a 48" platform plus the Hurley extension. I really wanted easy access when the dinghy is up. Aside from the challenges in securing the dinghy, it's an outstanding setup.

If you send the details of your platform and dink to Hurley they will send you drawings showing exactly how the setup will look. They even do 3D videos. They are great to work with....and made in the USA.

 

[Stee6043]

Without the extension from Hurley I assume you'll have very little room on a 410 as you do not have the "upper platform" us 400 guys have. If you're running an extended platform maybe you'll end up with 6" +/- depending on the beam of the dinghy. If you're running the standard platform (like I used to have) you'll probably be snug up against the transom, or it may not work at all. I have a 48" platform plus the Hurley extension. I really wanted easy access when the dinghy is up. Aside from the challenges in securing the dinghy, it's an outstanding setup.

If you send the details of your platform and dink to Hurley they will send you drawings showing exactly how the setup will look. They even do 3D videos. They are great to work with....and made in the USA.

This is probably the best side shot I have showing spacing. Without the extension I'd have very little, if any, space between the strbd tube and my transom. I'd also have interference with the davit "arm" and the transom locker.

I have a Walker Bay 325STX...