Advice for upgrading to 28-32' sundancer in the next couple/few years

[glocklt4]

Advice for upgrading to 27-30' sundancer in the next couple/few years

I've had a 2005 200 sport for about a year now and have had a really great experience owning my own boat so far. I've obviously started to meet friends with larger and more expensive boats, so I've been learning a lot about them. One in particular is a 340 Sundancer. A bit big (and expensive), however I have been thinking about upgrading to a used 280/300/310/320 in about a year and a half. I just want to be able to make an educated decision and be able to save up for it. From what I'm reading, the 280 is a pretty popular model and seems to have most of the features that my fiance and I are interested in, but "buy the biggest boat you can afford" tells us we should get the 320.

Goals:

Around the $65-90k range
4-5 years old

So a few basic questions:

1) How much $ in maintenance should you expect on a boat this size (winterizing - though in texas and may be able to just run heater inside, also any other normal costs)? From what I'm reading, there are quite a few more things that need to be replaced every few years, so is $2-3k/year about right?

2) Can I expect to get a 15-20 year loan with tax write off for second home on a boat this size? I should have my 200 sport paid off in about 6-9 months and then saving for next one after that.

3) Besides the addition of other systems with a bigger boat, what is more complicated to work on with a larger, closed bow boat? I am not sure what systems can be worked on at the pier I'd slip at, but it is a concern that with a larger boat I can't pull it out of the water and work on anything I want myself.

4) The 280 looks like it can be towed, but not with my current Tahoe. Any one with experience towing a 270-280?

 

[Alegria]

Well your on the right track for sure. Some random thoughts for me. The size you are looking for, for just two is good. The beam is over the normal 8'6" limit so if you are going to trailer that is a consideration. If you are going to slip the new boat then that will be the first added cost. Then comes insurance. The loan length for a boat that vintage you should be OK finding either a 15 or 20 yr loan, depending on your down payment. It is a great boat and Turtle's boat is for sale in the used section, (shameless plug there!)

You already have an outdrive so the maint. cost would be double the cost you are seeing now. At that year of age you would be looking at maybe bellows, gimbal bearing wear, you would depending on the use of the boat have a couple of seasons before the elbows on the cooling loop if raw water cooled and used in saltwater would need to looked at. Those are the big ticket items I would see in a twin outdrive boat.

Then you have all the new fun systems that you may be able to work on, but should be able to work on in the water. Fresh water system, battery charging and banks, head system (think duckbills and vacuflush holding tanks), Shorepower, AC, more canvas, and all that jazz... All of these can cause you spend more $$ then you expect. Oh generator too... another thing to maint. and winteriize. But that is what makes it so much fun!!!

For me we moved up to our boat from a vintage 280 (1990) and the upgrades were well worth it for us, even with the 1997 vintage boat we have. I figured first season was dedicated to mechanical, engines, generator, water system, etc. Next season is more mechanical with some more cosmetic updates (LED lighting, electronics refresh)..

If you are looking at a 320 then that is a different boat level all together. V-drives, more beam, more boat. I really like the 320's they are supper nice there are several slipped around us and they are really roomy and nice...

Oh well I am in vacation mode today so I apologize for rattling on!!!

Best of luck to you in your search!

 

[glocklt4]

Re: Advice for upgrading to 27-30' sundancer in the next couple/few years

Thanks for the info, Tom.

One thing I will have to decide on, which you reminded me of, is whether to go with dual engine or single. I have seen that some of them come with a 496, but i've also heard that you don't want a single engine larger boat or it will rock really badly. Dual will balance out better. Is that correct?

Also, is it cheaper to maintain two 4.3 or 5.0L engines and 2 smaller outdrives, or one large 496 and a large outdrive?

I have a buddy with a 496 and it guuuuzzzzlles gas, so something tells me the two 4.3's or even two 5.0L might consume less gas because they would not be pegged out trying to get the boat moving.

 

[Turtlesboat]

it really depends on how much work you do yourself and how much you farm out. Normal maint for me during the winter is about $1000. I have the drives pulled off and serviced, I change the oil, touch up the bottom paint, fog the engines, anti-freeze the fresh water system and engines and shrink wrap. I farm out the shrink wrap and drives.

4-5 year old boat, you'll be looking at replacing exhaust parts like risers, elbows etc, thermostats while your at it. I think it cost me about $3kish and most of that was parts. but that's only every 4ish years.

Other stuff is belts, maybe batteries every 2-3 years. Misc stuff like IAC valves every 2 years. not expensive.

caps and rotors and plugs when needed.

So yeah, maybe $2k-$3k every year including everything. I do it all during the winter so I don't have to worry about it during the summer.

Not reall complicated stuff. You have a couple of appliances like a fridge and microwave and TV and A/C.

 

[glocklt4]

it really depends on how much work you do yourself and how much you farm out. Normal maint for me during the winter is about $1000. I have the drives pulled off and serviced, I change the oil, touch up the bottom paint, fog the engines, anti-freeze the fresh water system and engines and shrink wrap. I farm out the shrink wrap and drives.

4-5 year old boat, you'll be looking at replacing exhaust parts like risers, elbows etc, thermostats while your at it. I think it cost me about $3kish and most of that was parts. but that's only every 4ish years.

Other stuff is belts, maybe batteries every 2-3 years. Misc stuff like IAC valves every 2 years. not expensive.

caps and rotors and plugs when needed.

So yeah, maybe $2k-$3k every year including everything. I do it all during the winter so I don't have to worry about it during the summer.

Not reall complicated stuff. You have a couple of appliances like a fridge and microwave and TV and A/C.

Ok, good to know that I'm not too far off on my estimates. I definitely enjoy doing my own work on vehicles when I have time to. Like you mentioned, during winter is an easy time to do so with more down time. I guess I should find out more info from the marina as far as what I can do. If I went with a 280, it appears I could pull it out of the water and trailer back home 2 miles to my house and do everything there. It has been very convenient doing that so far with my 200 sport.

 

[Alegria]

HMMM.. well I don't know about one outdrive/engine vs 2. I've had 2. The 280 had the 5.0L engines and alpha 1 drives. She also has the stainless props which I believe helped with performance. She was fine on power and a bit better on gas around 21-22 gallons per hour. As for balance I don't know, as you go up on beam the boat should be more stable, less rocking. You'll notice a big difference going from 8' to 9.5' also going from 9.5' to 11-12' too. Its always a trade off between beam and deadrise on the hull. More deadrise should give you a slightly better, less pounding ride, but will make the boat rock a bit more when idle. Where a lower deadrise will give you more stability at idle but may produce a noticably more pounding ride on plane...

On the plus side of one engine you have a LOT more room down there to work on things. I have two 454's on the boat I have now and there is little room to get around down there now. As for gas, well I am finding that gas costs are what they are and the difference between engine sizes and consumption is minimal in the big scheme of things for us.

 

[beerman]

I spend around 2-3k per season depending on what needs to be done. The shop usually does mine, lack of space in my engine room leaves little space for a slightly robust fellow like myself to work on things. The 496 would give much more space. We obviously(like Turtle) have to shrink wrap in the winter or pay for storage. We also trailer our 280 which goes just fine, maxing out our 2500hd Chevy. There have been many threads about the motor preferences and also about towing this size boat. Plenty of reading if you do some searches. Look at Turtles boat. There are plenty of 280's on the market right now for considerably less then what we paid for ours a couple years ago. You may be able to move into one faster than you thought. Financing may be a bit tricky in this economy. There have been a couple threads regarding this also. Good luck

 

[glocklt4]

Thanks guys. Good replies. I'm trying to read as much info through searching as I can. So far the 280's are looking quite nice. Would have to upgrade vehicle too though if a tahoe isn't able to tow that thing at all.

The biggest delay in getting a bigger boat right now is getting married next year, ha. We're having to pay for it all ourselves, so that means no upgrades for a while. We'll see if family pitches in on that or not, ha.

 

[beerman]

Thanks guys. Good replies. I'm trying to read as much info through searching as I can. So far the 280's are looking quite nice. Would have to upgrade vehicle too though if a tahoe isn't able to tow that thing at all.

The biggest delay in getting a bigger boat right now is getting married next year, ha. We're having to pay for it all ourselves, so that means no upgrades for a while. We'll see if family pitches in on that or not, ha.

Not looking for advise on getting married? I could tell you all about my first one. One thing to think about on towing is how many times you plan on doing that. If you are only launching it and pulling it out once a year it may be cheaper to pay someone to do it for you.

 

[mambodave]

I just upgraded to a 1999 310 from a Trailerable Monterrey. Here is a run down of my expenses:

Recurring Monthly Expenses:
Insurance $1000/year ($80/mo)
Wet Slip in prime location $550/mo
Bottom Cleaning $90/mo
Zincs.. not sure yet...

In addition to purchasing the boat, I put about $9000 in it to get it right and to add things (survey, updated service, gelcoat repairs, sat TV, updated Maps for GPS, Compound and Wax, Cockpit Cover, New Carpet, dock lines, saftey equip,new windlass motor, etc)

I purchased the boat for $45k... I could not find a loan, so had to come out of pocket, and I have great credit. VERY hard to get a loan if not a new boat right now.

I dont think youll have an issue finding the right boat. But a larger boat (that you cant trailer) will have significant monthly expenses.

 

[mambodave]

Thanks guys. Good replies. I'm trying to read as much info through searching as I can. So far the 280's are looking quite nice. Would have to upgrade vehicle too though if a tahoe isn't able to tow that thing at all.

The biggest delay in getting a bigger boat right now is getting married next year, ha. We're having to pay for it all ourselves, so that means no upgrades for a while. We'll see if family pitches in on that or not, ha.

Here is what you do... Pitch the boat purchase as the honeymoon, and do the wedding at a desierable spot where you can take off in the boat for a trip insteadof leaving in a car..... Youll save on the wedding because it will cost alot less (and be more fun), and then you get to spend week on the boat if you can swing it prior to the wedding...

 

[glocklt4]

Not looking for advise on getting married? I could tell you all about my first one. One thing to think about on towing is how many times you plan on doing that. If you are only launching it and pulling it out once a year it may be cheaper to pay someone to do it for you.

Haha, i'm getting enough advice in that department already :smt013


Good point on paying someone to tow. I was thinking mostly that we would want to go once a year to another lake for 3-4 days maybe (Possum Kingdom, Texoma, etc). I have read that it runs about $200 each way to have a boat transported, but didn't catch distance. That might be a bit much for a weekend away somewhere else. Maybe HD truck rental...?

 

[Groucho]

If your on the ocean 2 engines for safety...If not a single 496 is plenty of engine for this size boat......and it cuts your engine maintenence cost just about in 1/2. The 496 is one great engine.

 

[glocklt4]

I just upgraded to a 1999 310 from a Trailerable Monterrey. Here is a run down of my expenses:

Recurring Monthly Expenses:
Insurance $1000/year ($80/mo)
Wet Slip in prime location $550/mo
Bottom Cleaning $90/mo
Zincs.. not sure yet...

In addition to purchasing the boat, I put about $9000 in it to get it right and to add things (survey, updated service, gelcoat repairs, sat TV, updated Maps for GPS, Compound and Wax, Cockpit Cover, New Carpet, dock lines, saftey equip,new windlass motor, etc)

I purchased the boat for $45k... I could not find a loan, so had to come out of pocket, and I have great credit. VERY hard to get a loan if not a new boat right now.

I dont think youll have an issue finding the right boat. But a larger boat (that you cant trailer) will have significant monthly expenses.

Thanks for the list of expenses. Good to know. I was going to start putting together a list so that I could calculate out how much we should be able to afford.

Slips are $390/mo where I am for 31x14, so that's a pretty significant cost...

That's interesting that you were not able to get a loan on a $45k boat. Your is 10 years old, so maybe that was the reason? Definitely not going to buy brand new with how much they run... over $100k is a lot even if it's 0% or something!

 

[glocklt4]

If your on the ocean 2 engines for safety...If not a single 496 is plenty of engine for this size boat......and it cuts your engine maintenence cost just about in 1/2. The 496 is one great engine.

Won't be on ocean. In dallas and not going to trailer that far ever, ha. Someday it would be nice to have a big boat on the ocean though... but by that time i'll probably be retired and it'll be a sailboat .

 

[glocklt4]

Here is what you do... Pitch the boat purchase as the honeymoon, and do the wedding at a desierable spot where you can take off in the boat for a trip insteadof leaving in a car..... Youll save on the wedding because it will cost alot less (and be more fun), and then you get to spend week on the boat if you can swing it prior to the wedding...

Not a bad idea, haha! We've already started to put deposits down on things though (doh!).

 

[mambodave]

Thanks for the list of expenses. Good to know. I was going to start putting together a list so that I could calculate out how much we should be able to afford.

Slips are $390/mo where I am for 31x14, so that's a pretty significant cost...

That's interesting that you were not able to get a loan on a $45k boat. Your is 10 years old, so maybe that was the reason? Definitely not going to buy brand new with how much they run... over $100k is a lot even if it's 0% or something!

Forgot to mention Fuel cost on a twin and incidentals...

With lending the way it is is rough right now.

 

[glocklt4]

Forgot to mention Fuel cost on a twin and incidentals...

With lending the way it is is rough right now.

Yeah, i was lucky to just get my house refinanced to 4.5% a few months ago. Boat, however, is at freakin' 9.5% (pisses me off) because it was a loan under $25k. Rates and getting loans in general are not good on boats, so paying off current boat as quickly as possible while paying min on house unless I run into a nice bonus this xmas (which i'll have to admit will go to the boat anyway, ha). After wedding is over the dual income will be nice to make the larger boat affordable. Hopefully i could get around $15k or so out of mine at the time we want to upgrade... so loan for $40ish would be around $400-450/mo min.

 

[lknbill]

Re: Advice for upgrading to 27-30' sundancer in the next couple/few years

I can't help with most of your questions, but suggest what ever you do it will be 2-3 x's as expensive as you think.

 

[glocklt4]

Re: Advice for upgrading to 27-30' sundancer in the next couple/few years

I can't help with most of your questions, but suggest what ever you do it will be 2-3 x's as expensive as you think.

yeah, i'm already getting the sense of that, ha.

Is this unreasonably low to expect to pay/mo? :

$450.00 Boat Payment
$250.00 Additional Payment
$325.00 Slip
$200.00 Gas
$250.00 Yearly maint
$75.00 Insurance
-----------------------------------------
$1,550.00