Anchor Rode Upgrade

[John E3]

The rope on our anchor rode has reached end of life and I'm trying to decide what the best action is. I pondered resplicing it from the other end but after removing it from the locker there is a lot of wear over a good bit of it, so that is no longer an option.

I found a handful of threads here, and they did offer some good insight, but still leaves me with some doubts. We have the Lofrans Progress 1 Windlass, and according to the SR parts list, the boat came with 200ft of "grade 40" 5/16 chain, the same size as noted in some posts for that windlass. Currently we have a 5/8 rope and 3/8 chain. We only used it a few times in the 1 full season we've had the boat, but it didn't seem to run smooth. Maybe the 3/8 chain & 5/8 rope is to blame?

I'm leaning toward going back to all chain, as I was already considering adding some ballast in the bow to try and keep the swim platform from dragging at slow speed. That's a whole other story. First time out (and didn't know this yet....) the water swirled up over the back edge, filled the inflatable and tore the tube off the flooring (it is nearly 20 years old, but was barely used). That's got to be a HUGE performance drag. All chain will be 300lbs, maybe 250lbs more than the current.

I've been reading up on chain, but have not found that perfect reference on the multitude of chain types available. G4 seems to be the standard, but it seems every style has a windlass and non-windlass version with a 2:1 price difference. In the end it looks like the G4 High Test Windlass grade is the best choice. I assume that Grade 43 High Test is similar. Am I on the right track here? Any other points to consider?

Any suggested vendors? I'm seeing a large variation in price, but some are truck ship only on top of the chain price, others are free shipping. The free shipping requires a commercial delivery address and a forklift. The same is likely true for the "truck only" shipping vendors. I considered WM as they will deliver to the store for free, but at 40% higher price. I might be able to work a deal with a boat shop just up the road (rural area) and run over with my tractor.
Thanks - John

 

[Stee6043]

Have you checked in with other AC owners to see if your performance is typical of that model? I ask because our boats are within 1500lbs of each other, I'm running less horsepower, and mine performs like a champ even with 500lbs of dink hanging off the back. I wonder if maybe you have an odd set of props or perhaps something else going on. Or that's just the way the AC runs with more weight aft on the boat.

As for chain - I went 200 feet all chain a few seasons back and couldn't be happier with the results. I bought mine from Defender but heard recently WM was cheaper, delivered. I can't confirm.

 

[John E3]

Have you checked in with other AC owners to see if your performance is typical of that model? I ask because our boats are within 1500lbs of each other, I'm running less horsepower, and mine performs like a champ even with 500lbs of dink hanging off the back. I wonder if maybe you have an odd set of props or perhaps something else going on. Or that's just the way the AC runs with more weight aft on the boat.

As for chain - I went 200 feet all chain a few seasons back and couldn't be happier with the results. I bought mine from Defender but heard recently WM was cheaper, delivered. I can't confirm.

The AC's seem to be pretty rare. I'm not aware of any around, nor did I get any response from any here last year. It seems that there are 100 times as many other SRs, Dancer, ECs, and SBs, all with just a cockpit aft. I believe they all have aft located engines though. Mid are pretty well forward by comparison.

There is no doubt the AC is stern heavy - hard top, full back deck with bar & ice maker, queen stateroom, head w/shower, water heater, 2 AC units, and 100gal of water, all within 10ft of the transom. I think the 380AC starting in 2000 moved some stuff fwd. That 300lbs of chain on the bow could make a huge difference. I have to get to like 40g/hr before it's up on a plane. I grew up on 9kn boats, and like that economy!

The swim platform (factory) trailing edge is only a couple inches above the water and goes below with any bow lift. The boat sits level so no issues there.

Do you have the Progress 1 windlass, and did you get 5/16 chain?

 

[Stee6043]

The AC's seem to be pretty rare. I'm not aware of any around, nor did I get any response from any here last year. It seems that there are 100 times as many other SRs, Dancer, ECs, and SBs, all with just a cockpit aft. I believe they all have aft located engines though. Mid are pretty well forward by comparison.

There is no doubt the AC is stern heavy - hard top, full back deck with bar & ice maker, queen stateroom, head w/shower, water heater, 2 AC units, and 100gal of water, all within 10ft of the transom. I think the 380AC starting in 2000 moved some stuff fwd. That 300lbs of chain on the bow could make a huge difference. I have to get to like 40g/hr before it's up on a plane. I grew up on 9kn boats, and like that economy!

The swim platform (factory) trailing edge is only a couple inches above the water and goes below with any bow lift. The boat sits level so no issues there.

Do you have the Progress 1 windlass, and did you get 5/16 chain?

If you want to test the theory on performance improvement send a buddy or two all the way forward when you go out next time. See if you notice a quicker plane/less drag. My money would be on "not super noticeable" but anything could happen. The most noticeable change for me was that the boat sits maybe 1/4-1/2" lower at the bow when my dink is not on the platform. A bit annoying until I started painting the "smile" a bit higher, outside the lines.

Going to all chain for the improvement in anchoring/retrieving is 100% worth the money though.

Below is the chain I used, yes I also have a Progress I. Prices as they were back in 2020.

 

[John E3]

If you want to test the theory on performance improvement send a buddy or two all the way forward when you go out next time. See if you notice a quicker plane/less drag. My money would be on "not super noticeable" but anything could happen. The most noticeable change for me was that the boat sits maybe 1/4-1/2" lower at the bow when my dink is not on the platform. A bit annoying until I started painting the "smile" a bit higher, outside the lines.

Going to all chain for the improvement in anchoring/retrieving is 100% worth the money though.

Below is the chain I used, yes I also have a Progress I. Prices as they were back in 2020.

View attachment 162579

I'm looking at exactly that chain (and a new swivel), $908 for 275', plus $350 for shipping at Defender. Puts it on-par with free shipping at other places. WM wants $500 more. I'm using 275' as a bunch of places sell it by the 1/2 barrel and the per foot price is higher.
When we were out with my nephew last summer he was astonished at how fast we could get up on plane, compared to his 37' SB. A '94 I think. He had the carbureted 454's with 3 blades and it struggled. It's not so much about performance as it is getting the swim platform to not sink 4" into the water at about 12kn, and cause water to flow UP a foot on the platform. It's a 4" x 11' edge plowing through the water that is the performance concern.

 

[BlueYonder]

Does this happen on the way to planing speed or do you want to run the boat at 12 knots? If you aren’t on plane, that has to be a very inefficient speed and tough on the motors. Do the trim tabs not have much effect?

I bought my last rode and chain combo from these guys. I picked it up at the factory so shipping will increase the price. I went with braided line for better handling.

Home - Miami Cordage

www.miamicordage.com

 

[John E3]

Does this happen on the way to planing speed or do you want to run the boat at 12 knots? If you aren’t on plane, that has to be a very inefficient speed and tough on the motors. Do the trim tabs not have much effect?

Not enough cruising time to have reliable data, but based on a few runs, 8kn is .6m/g, 11kn is .4m/g and 18kn is .3m/g. 11 is only a slightly raised bow, and 13-14 is impossible to maintain and the bow is as high as the helm. It slips back to 12, every time. We ran up the Chester river with my nephew and his SB liked 13. We couldn't stay with him. The worst could have been even 10kn. Kind of an oh shit situation. Initially we had no idea what tore up the inflatable and until my wife happened to look down another time at the right speed, we had no idea what happened.
8kn is the theoretical hull speed, and most efficient. 18 is barely enough to maintain a plane. 11ish is convenient when planing, or putting along, isn't ideal. Usually only for short periods, but apparently long enough to rip apart the inflatable.
Trim tabs make little difference below plane as they are the short stroke type. I did see a really old post related to trim tabs, and one poster mentioned "drop fins" for the tabs, and the huge difference they made on a 340. I ordered a set today. We'll see how that goes and consider wider ones. My last boat was a 28ft wood CC and extra wide ones made a world of difference on it, vs none. Even on a plane it was nose up. With them it pushed 28kn with a pair of 283's. Wave slap on a 50yr old wooden bottom was the limiting factor!
Even passing thru the platform dunk zone concerns me with a new $1500 inflatable. I'm about to install Versa chock mounts which overhang the water by a full 2ft, but at least 6" higher. I'm still worried, but that's the only option that works for a variety of reasons.

 

[ranger58sb]

We have the Lofrans Progress 1 Windlass, and according to the SR parts list, the boat came with 200ft of "grade 40" 5/16 chain, the same size as noted in some posts for that windlass. Currently we have a 5/8 rope and 3/8 chain. We only used it a few times in the 1 full season we've had the boat, but it didn't seem to run smooth. Maybe the 3/8 chain & 5/8 rope is to blame?

Our Lofrans windlass has different gypsy (chainwheel) sizes for different chain sizes. Check your chainwheel for the chain size stamping, to see if it's for the (presumably) original 5/16"... or maybe whether some PO changed it out to be able to use heavier 3/8" chain. Your Lofrans manual will have various part numbers for the various gypsies...

G4 seems to be the standard, but it seems every style has a windlass and non-windlass version with a 2:1 price difference. In the end it looks like the G4 High Test Windlass grade is the best choice. I assume that Grade 43 High Test is similar. Am I on the right track here?

Yep, if the chainwheel is stamped for G4, then G43 is the current version of that. Best prices I found when shopping for ACCO were from a local chandlery (Fawcett's), or Defender.

Not enough cruising time to have reliable data, but based on a few runs, 8kn is .6m/g, 11kn is .4m/g and 18kn is .3m/g. 11 is only a slightly raised bow, and 13-14 is impossible to maintain and the bow is as high as the helm. It slips back to 12, every time.

In case you don't know...

There's a "maximum theoretical hull speed" where the boat moves through the water. Then there's planing speed, where you riding on top of (sorta) the water. In between is just crap, where the hull is struggling to push water out of it's way so it can get up on plane.

I dunno your waterline length, but guessing it's about 35' or so. The formula for max theoretical hull speed is 1.34 x Sqrt(LWL) which means your top slow speed is in the neighborhood of 7.92 kts... and your most economical will be more like 1.1x or 1.2x.... so somewhere in the neighborhood of 6-6.75-ish kts. Assuming yur gassers work somewhat similarly to diesels and so forth. It also means any speed about that max -- until you get properly on plane -- is sorta like throwing money out the window. I dunno what you're planing speed might be, though, so can't really guess where that starts...

Our example to illustrate the different is approx 4 GPH and 2 NMPG at 8.5 kts, approx 48 GPH and 19 kts and .6 NMPG at 1850 RPM.

-Chris

 

[Stee6043]

I was told there would be no math.

 

[John E3]

Our Lofrans windlass has different gypsy (chainwheel) sizes for different chain sizes. Check your chainwheel for the chain size stamping, to see if it's for the (presumably) original 5/16"... or maybe whether some PO changed it out to be able to use heavier 3/8" chain. Your Lofrans manual will have various part numbers for the various gypsies...



Yep, if the chainwheel is stamped for G4, then G43 is the current version of that. Best prices I found when shopping for ACCO were from a local chandlery (Fawcett's), or Defender.

There was no manual with the boat and the ones I found online all specified 5/16 and no mention of others. I will have to go over and take a look at it.
I didn't think about Fawcetts as it's sort of local, but their "Anchor Rodes and Chains" category has neither of them in it, only accessories. A site search came up empty too.
Defender has a good price, but $350 shipping puts it on par with the 'free shipping' options elsewhere.

Yes, I am aware of the hull speed details. As noted, 18kn is the absolute lowest speed to maintain a plane.

I was cautious last season on pushing the engines due to being new with the boat, and having had to do a top end rebuild on the port engine. The exhaust riser blocks had rusted out internally and sea water had been getting into the cylinders for probably years, and it hydrolocked on 1. The exhaust ports on the heads were rusted beyond any chance of rebuild. It took 3 hours to pry the manifold off the snapped studs due to rust. Thankfully identical heads are readily available. I think I have stuck rings on 1 cylinder as the compression is pretty low, but a full rebuild was not an option last year. Performance and fuel consumption is pretty much spot on with the stbd. I'm counting on Marvel and Lucas to, maybe, free them up. I haven't pushed them beyond about 3800, for more than a few minutes, yet. The Survey run noted the WOT seemed a little low, but both props were banged up, and the bottom has probably 10 coats of chipped bottom paint, so both probably contribute to reduced performance. Hopefully at this fall haul out I'll have it blasted and start fresh.
I had planned to do more work before the upcoming launch, but tripped, fell and lost the tip of my right index finger 6 weeks ago, carrying a "beer brewery". That really put a damper on pre-launch prep work. Thankfully they reattach reasonably well, but 6-8 mo recovery.
I've been relying on Fox Gateway fuel consumption details, and my Axiom fuel management for the numbers I have, and adding tank monitors to verify (and backup for questionable gauges).

 

[Njlarry]

For those considering going to all chain...what do we do with the old chain besides trash it? Would it work to weld or join it to the new chain?

 

[John E3]

For those considering going to all chain...what do we do with the old chain besides trash it? Would it work to weld or join it to the new chain?

No standard connector (that I know of) will pass thru the windlass, and welding sounds like a bad idea.
Recycle or give it away. I will use mine for rigging/hauling logs at my sawmill. I'll probably find a use for the 200ft of rope, too.
Oh, I see you are local. What marina?

 

[ranger58sb]

I didn't think about Fawcetts as it's sort of local, but their "Anchor Rodes and Chains" category has neither of them in it, only accessories.

I think I had to call and yak with the guy... something like that...

-Chris