Anither Kohler 5e water ingestion

D

DaleM

Member
Aug 5, 2009
690
Mt Airy, MD
Boat Info
340 Sundancer
Engines
Twin 8.1 Horizons
Another Kohler 5e water ingestion

I was running the gen on the hook for about an hour. Shut down and eventually headed in. The next day went to start and got the click as mention in a previous thread. Pulled the plug and there was water.

How many things do you have to drain (cylinder, heat exchanger, etc) should you have to drain before it will crank and not just "click". I want to make sure I get everything cleaned up.

Is there a chance of water in the case/oil? I couldnt get to that at the time.

Thanks.
 
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Sorry to hear about your issues. Could you supply a link to the previous thread you mention? I have this gen, but would like to know more info on what caused your water ingestion, and what this "click" means, etc...so I don't incur the same problem!

Speaking to your situation, anytime you have water in your cylinders, you probably have water in your oil. Drain it and replace also. The only thing that seperates the cylinder chamber from the crankcase are a couple of compression rings and an oil ring on the piston, and they all have gaps...

Tom
 
Re: Another Kohler 5e water ingestion

Today turned out for the positive. I found as mentioned water in the cylinder and water in the oil. The oil was not milky. I drained the oil completely and then added fresh oil again from the top over the valve cover to let the fresh continue to drain/flush through. Before topping off the oil I pulsed the starter with the plug out and even though it still clicked I could see the starter gear slowly inching around. After about 4 quick hits to the starter I got blasted in the face by water coming out of the plug opening. A plus! My shop supervisor said once that's done get the oil topped off and work on getting it started. The goal being to dry things out, but don't let it run. Just get the water out which I did and it fired. I then drained the oil again and pulled the filter. The oil was slightly milky which I attributed to the start attempts. Again I drained the oil well, and did the flush thing I mentioned. This time I added a new filter and in about 3 cranks it fired up and ran normal with good water flow. After about 4 minutes of running the oil still looked good. I'll probably change it one more time. I still need to find out the true source of the problem. Does anyone know where in the exhaust system the flaps are? I found the large black semi-flexible exhaust lines and the muffler. I could not easily see behind the FW tank to where it comes up to the gen. By this time I was cramped up and had to get going. Suggestions on where to find the exhaust valves/flaps appreciated. Dale
 
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Let me see if I got this right. You had water ingestion issue, you were able to get the water out and now the genny is back to normal. But, my question is what caused the water ingestion in the first place? If you think that exhaust flaps will solve your issue, I don't think so.

When was the last time impeller changed? I don't recall 100% if it's says in the manual, but it's recommended to keep the seacock closed anytime the genny is no in use.
 
Alex F,

I agree I'm questioning what caused the ingestion in the first place and I'm asking "if" or "where" the flaps are in the system. The impeller was changed at the beginning of this season and the previous impeller was in good shape.

Not sure on the seacock being closed all the time or not as well. I kept it open all the time for the past 3 years when the boat has been in the water and never had an issue. I know if the gen doesn't start in like 2 or so tries it's recommended to close the seacock to prevent ingestion and then open it once it's running which makes sense as there isn't enough exhaust pressure to potentially blow water out the exhaust system. I believe I recall seeing that in the manual.

Explain your thoughts on the impeller, seacock. I would think if all of that had water forced past it the only way to get water in the cylinders in a system that isn't running would be to 1) "force" fill up through the water intake (seacock) AND fill water exhaust system to the point where eventually water would enter the cylinders or 2) there is a leak somewhere in the system to let water enter the cylinder. I'm not a marine gen mechanic but just trying to put some logic to things based on my limited mechanical knowledge. I know I did not have an anti-freeze in the case or the cylinders, and the only water in the cylinders was raw water.

I have a theory on how it could've happend with forcing water back through the gen exhaust system without it running. But, if I put that theory out here I might end up starting a friendly feud :smt001
 
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DaleM said:
Alex F,

I agree I'm questioning what caused the ingestion in the first place and I'm asking "if" or "where" the flaps are in the system. The impeller was changed at the beginning of this season and the previous impeller was in good shape.

Not sure on the seacock being closed all the time or not as well. I kept it open all the time for the past 3 years when the boat has been in the water and never had an issue. I know if the gen doesn't start in like 2 or so tries it's recommended to close the seacock to prevent ingestion and then open it once it's running which makes sense as there isn't enough exhaust pressure to potentially blow water out the exhaust system. I believe I recall seeing that in the manual.

Explain your thoughts on the impeller, seacock. I would think if all of that had water forced past it the only way to get water in the cylinders in a system that isn't running would be to 1) fill up the water intake AND water exhaust system to the point where eventually water would enter the cylinders or 2) there is a leak somewhere in the system to let water enter the cylinder. I'm not a marine gen mechanic but just trying to put some logic to things based on my limited mechanic knowledge. I know I did not have an anti-freeze in the case or the cylinders, and the only water in the cylinders was raw water.

I have a theory on how it could've happend with forcing water back through the gen exhaust system without it running. But, if I put that theory out here I might end up starting a friendly feud :smt001
Click to expand...

Dale,

I think you got my idea about the impeller and seacock. These are two primary components that allow raw water to enter the unit. Following the same theory as when the genny doesn't start in coupld of attempts it's advised to close the seacock, if the impeller is worn, having open seacock will allow water to enter the system.

Just like you, I never closed the seacock on my 320 while genny wasn't used underway or anytime. It always started at least on the 2nd attempt. My impeller was always fresh (changed regularly) and I never had the issue. However, while servicing my 420, my Cummins and Kohler certified mechanic told me that it's not a big deal with diesel gennies, but what he referred to as a "toy box" with kohler units it's best to keep the seacock closed to prevent water ingestion issue (when it's not running and you're underway).
 
Isn't there some sort of siphon hose set up that is suppose to prevent this sort of thing? I recall seeing that written somewhere and mine has a hose with a Y connector that is above the generator that has a role in that. Dont have access to the literature but look into that.

Do you have this:

http://marinegenerators.us/kohler/lit/TT783.PDF
 
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Cincy, yes I have a siphon break and it is in good working condition.

Back to the "flapper" question - does anyone know if there is such an animal in the exhaust system to prevent water from being forced in the wrong direction?
 
DaleM said:
Cincy, yes I have a siphon break and it is in good working condition.

Back to the "flapper" question - does anyone know if there is such an animal in the exhaust system to prevent water from being forced in the wrong direction?
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I do not think there is a "flapper" within the exhaust system...
 
Thanks. I can't find reference to one either and was going to get the model number of the Kawaski engine to see if there's more information on the Kohler site or on the Wild Wild Web.
 
Did you possibly prolong the cranking of the engine multiple times? If you crank long enough with the seacock open, the water pump will fill the muffler enough to the point where water will backflow through the exhaust valve. I know mine cranks quite awhile if I haven't ran it for a couple weeks. Once I start cranking on a cold start up after it has set for a few weeks, I start counting. If after 10 seconds of continuous cranking and it doesn't start, it is time to go to the engine room, close the seacock, and try cranking the engine from the rocker swtich on the generator. Once it starts, be quick with throwing the lever open on the seacock.
 
Thanks Stray Cat - no it didn't take much to fire it over initially plus it ran for about an hour which I would think would help clear the water over time. Maybe 1 hit to the starter for 2-3 seconds and it lit. It was REALLY warm that day, and I have the choke situation set up where it kicks off pretty consistently without standing on the starter. If it doesn't I close the seacock.

I'm thinking that some of my issues may have been due to some water potentially being pushed back through the exhaust when the gen wasn't running. I'll keep an eye on it and make sure that after sitting a week with the seacock open there isn't any leak by from the impeller though I don't think that's my situation.
 
Check that little flipper door on the through hull on the exhaust to make sure it is moving freely. I don't think water could get forced back through the exhaust while underway, but I suppose it could.
 
My boat doesn't have an exhaust flap door on the hull. Based on how it looks there was never one there as it's a smooth flush port and doesn't appear as of there's anything missing. A couple other guys with the gen and the same year as mine don't have them either.
 
Mine has a flapper on the thru hull with a rubber insert that seems to hold it in place. I wonder if the rubber is gone then there may be no evidence of the flapper. My parts list shows the flapper as a separate part number.
 
Mine has a flapper on the thru hull with a rubber insert that seems to hold it in place.
Click to expand...

Interesting, by chance do you know the PN? I'm all for getting it if they make it for the 280.
 
DaleM said:
Interesting, by chance do you know the PN? I'm all for getting it if they make it for the 280.
Click to expand...

Is your output on the side of the boat stainless steel or is it molded in the side?
 
Dale,

If the resolution to the problem would be the exhaust flapper, then SR would install it on every single boat. None of my boats had it, including 320DA that had the same genny as yours. I would rather spend time and money on getting professional to asses the possible cause of water ingestion.
 
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