As boaters we all should be concerned about General Motors

As far as the private jets go, rather than criticize the Auto Execs for using them why not ask them how they justify that expense? Being part of Fortune 500 companies in my past, our companies always had private jets as well but they leased them and their expense was justified very well in my opinion.

There is so much mis-information out there these days, that very few people really understand the US auto industry properly anymore. And for some insight into "todays" GM and the requested bailout, here is their entire case.

http://media.gm.com/servlet/Gateway...lisher/support_file/11-18-2008/39/support.pdf
 
As soon as I heard about GM's "rubber rooms" two years ago, I knew then that they didn't deserve to survive. I'm a student of economics and believe that the means of production belongs in the hands of the efficient. That's the foundation of a rising standard of living. If you haven't heard of "rubber rooms", google that along with "general motors" and you'll find several articles. GM's not alone, the othere two do it too. Here's an excerpt . . .

FLINT, Mich. — In his 34 years working for General Motors Corp., one of Jerry Mellon’s toughest assignments came this January. He spent a week in what workers call the “rubber room.”

The room is a windowless old storage shed for engine parts. It is filled with long tables, Mr. Mellon says, and has space for about 400 employees. They must arrive at 6 a.m. each day and stay until 2:30 p.m., with 45 minutes off for lunch. A supervisor roams the aisles, signing people out when they want to use the bathroom.

Their job: to do nothing.

This is the “Jobs Bank,” a two-decade-old program under which nearly 15,000 auto workers continue to get paid after their companies stop needing them. To earn wages and benefits that often top $100,000 a year, the workers must perform some company-approved activity. Many do volunteer jobs or go back to school. The rest must clock time in the rubber room or something like it.

It is called the rubber room, Mr. Mellon says, because “a few days in there makes you go crazy.”

The Jobs Bank at GM and other U.S. auto companies including Ford Motor Co. is likely to cost around $1.4 billion to $2 billion this year. The programs, which are up for renewal next year when union contracts expire, have become a symbol of why Detroit struggles even as Japanese auto makers with big U.S. operations prosper.

While GM often blames “legacy costs” such as retiree health care and pensions for its troubles, its Job Bank shows that the company has inflicted some wounds on itself. Documents show that GM itself helped originate the Jobs Bank idea in 1984 and agreed to expand it in 1990, seeing it as a stopgap until times got better and workers could go back to the factories.
 
Just a few comments. How do you think every congressman at the hearings got from their home state to the hearing? Southwest? I don't think so! The "rubber room" comments, there are clauses built into the union rules that for so many corporate employees the be X amount of union employees. Therefore in order to staff your plan and avoid strike or shutdowns you need to have a certain amount of employees doing anything, or nothing. As to Brunswick buying Merc and being able to run an engine plant, I don't think so. Find out the development and production cost to create the very first engine in a series. I highly doubt Brunswick, or any medium sized company could afford the millions, let alone validation costs and parts and service. There's a reason it needs billions to operate, not thousands or millions. Look at the volume of boats running a single type of powerplant, not enough to justify the cost to run a engine plant, unless you charge 20-30K per unit.
 
wileecoyote said:
Just a few comments. How do you think every congressman at the hearings got from their home state to the hearing? Southwest? I don't think so! The "rubber room" comments, there are clauses built into the union rules that for so many corporate employees the be X amount of union employees. Therefore in order to staff your plan and avoid strike or shutdowns you need to have a certain amount of employees doing anything, or nothing. As to Brunswick buying Merc and being able to run an engine plant, I don't think so. Find out the development and production cost to create the very first engine in a series. I highly doubt Brunswick, or any medium sized company could afford the millions, let alone validation costs and parts and service. There's a reason it needs billions to operate, not thousands or millions. Look at the volume of boats running a single type of powerplant, not enough to justify the cost to run a engine plant, unless you charge 20-30K per unit.
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Brunswick already owns Merc
 
I have no problem with Ford, GM and Chrysler having private jets. In fact, many car dealers own or have owned jets in the past. However, GM for example, has upgraded their jet status over the years. Not so long ago they operated Citation III's, then VII's, then X's and now they operate a fleet of Gulfstreams. The Citations have/had a range of 1,500 to 3,000 nautical miles. Their Gulfstreams are substantially larger and the least expensive versions will cover about 4,000 NM. Does this really make financial sense especially if the majority of their trips are within the continental US. The Citation XLS or Sovereign would be ideal to fly around the US. A longer range Gulfstream would make sense for overseas trips. Quite frankly, operating a fleet of Gulfstreams is simply a drop in the bucket for GM and only makes up a small fractional % of GM's current hemorrhaging. Regardless, I would not be surprised to see the big three's flight departments downsized in the near term.
 
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I don't want to see the boating industry get brought down by the demise of General Motors. Congress will likely grant the big three their loans (or loan guarantees) so hopefully it will keep the production line open for Merc and Volvo for awhile at least.

But I would also think that the Brunswick Corparation has given marching orders to Mercury Marine to start looking for alternative power plant sources now. They can't afford to bet on GM's outcome at this point and don't need more problems heaped on top of the already struggling boating business.

Does anyone know if any of the European or Asian companies supply engines for the overseas Marine Industry today?
 
The Truth About Unions According to Bud Abbott (stay tuned 'til about 1:03) :smt038:smt038:smt038

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIb7uG-YTgE[/youtube]
 
wileecoyote said:
Just a few comments. How do you think every congressman at the hearings got from their home state to the hearing? Southwest? I don't think so! The "rubber room" comments, there are clauses built into the union rules that for so many corporate employees the be X amount of union employees. Therefore in order to staff your plan and avoid strike or shutdowns you need to have a certain amount of employees doing anything, or nothing. As to Brunswick buying Merc and being able to run an engine plant, I don't think so. Find out the development and production cost to create the very first engine in a series. I highly doubt Brunswick, or any medium sized company could afford the millions, let alone validation costs and parts and service. There's a reason it needs billions to operate, not thousands or millions. Look at the volume of boats running a single type of powerplant, not enough to justify the cost to run a engine plant, unless you charge 20-30K per unit.
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This post is like a very stinky baby diaper....

They need to be restructured before any money goes into companies that have crappy products, poor management, and unions out of control... What's that saying? "Pigs get fat and hogs get slaughtered"...

Let the open market work...
 
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Hmmm

A Modern Parable.

A Japanese company (Toyota) and an American company (Ford Motor) decided to have a canoe race on the Missouri River Both teams practiced long and hard to reach their peak performance before the race.

On the big day, the Japanese won by a mile.

The Americans, very discouraged and depressed, decided to investigate the reason for the crushing defeat. A management team made up of senior management was formed to investigate and recommend appropriate action.

Their conclusion was the Japanese had 8 people rowing and 1 person steering, while the American team had 7 people steering and 2 people rowing.

Feeling a deeper study was in order; American management hired a consulting company and paid them a large amount of money for a second opinion.

They advised, of course, that too many people were steering the boat, while not enough people were rowing.

Not sure of how to utilize that information, but wanting to prevent another loss to the Japanese, the rowing team's management structure was totally reorganized to 4 steering supervisors, 2 area steering superintendents and 1 assistant superintendent steering manager.

They also implemented a new performance system that would give the 2 people rowing the boat greater incentive to work harder. It was called the 'Rowing Team Quality First Program,' with meetings, dinners and free pens for the rowers. There was discussion of getting new paddles, canoes and other equipment, extra vacation days for practices and bonuses. The pension program was trimmed to 'equal the competition' and some of the resultant savings were channeled into morale boosting programs and teamwork posters.

The next year the Japanese won by two miles.

Humiliated, the American management laid-off one rower, halted development of a new canoe, sold all the paddles, and canceled all capital investments for new equipment. The money saved was distributed to the Senior Executives as bonuses.

The next year, try as he might, the lone designated rower was unable to even finish the race (having no paddles,) so he was laid off for unacceptable performance, all canoe equipment was sold and the next year's racing team was out-sourced to India.

Sadly, the End.

Here's something else to think about: Ford has spent the last thirty years moving all its factories out of the US , claiming they can't make money paying American wages.

TOYOTA has spent the last thirty years building more than a dozen plants inside the US. The last quarter's results:

TOYOTA makes 4 billion in profits while Ford racked up 9 billion in losses.

Ford folks are still scratching their heads, and collecting bonuses...
 
The communities that donot have an auto plants do not understand the situation the working persons are going thru. Home prices are going deep six in Michigan, and unemployment rate is over 9 percent. We are hoping the governor goes to Washington.
 
well I did my part, I bought a GM truck and my GM truck tent arrived today. How far south do I have to drive until it gets warm enough to camp?
 
Banagy said:
The communities that donot have an auto plants do not understand the situation the working persons are going thru. Home prices are going deep six in Michigan, and unemployment rate is over 9 percent. We are hoping the governor goes to Washington.
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And?...

BTW... You skip high school English classes?
 
Like any other business you grow or die. I dont believe in bailouts of any kind, they are b.s.

If my previous business was failing, were would be my bailout?

We are putting too much emphasis in this country lately on the "big conglomerates" and forgetting about the thousands of businesses that employ less than 100 people that no one ever gives a crap about.

Let 'em die. This will give a whole host of entrepreneurs an in to start over and make something better and more efficient.
 
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Banagy said:
The communities that donot have an auto plants do not understand the situation the working persons are going thru. Home prices are going deep six in Michigan, and unemployment rate is over 9 percent. We are hoping the governor goes to Washington.
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Ever think about moving? :huh:
 
Banagy said:
The communities that donot have an auto plants do not understand the situation the working persons are going thru. Home prices are going deep six in Michigan, and unemployment rate is over 9 percent. We are hoping the governor goes to Washington.
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Sure we do... just not all of us work for the auto industry. In my case,I owned a large retail fabric store for 17 years. No one from government told the schools they should keep teaching kids how to sew when there were cutbacks to those programs.. or prevented wally world from selling cheap imported clothing for less than what just the patterns I was trying to sell in my store cost..No one offered to help my business and a few hundred of my friends that owned stores to get bailed out. And that's not counting the mills that had to cut back, the warehouses that are out of business now, the other chains that are reduced to nothing and the countless mom and pops that went under. Fortunately, I could see the writing on the wall and managed to break even getting out of it. some of my friends weren't so lucky. I had no clue what I was going to do but as I said in another thread... necessity can create opportunity... Sure I struggled for several years building up another (completely different) business and now I'm thankfully not in retail, raised my family, helping them to get started, get to go boating and providing jobs for 30 people that didn't have as good of one before.
That's what I don't understand about these CEO's... gawd... How long have we heard consumers talking about the quality and the lower cost of the imports. I dunno.. I'm ranting and probably not making sense.. I'm tired and this stuff just makes me cranky.. I know this situation is not that simple.. but damn.. some people need to be looking in the mirror and hold themselves accountable.
 
well there was no bailout for my industry, most everyone I know left, went out of business, bankrupt etc... I'm surviving (knock on wood) but most of the US could give a crap.

I'm off to Cuba to go camping and buy some discounted cigars.
 
TurtleTone said:
well there was no bailout for my industry, most everyone I know left, went out of business, bankrupt etc... I'm surviving (knock on wood) but most of the US could give a crap.

I'm off to Cuba to go camping and buy some discounted cigars.
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What is/was your industry?
 
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