Baltimore bridge collapse

Gofirstclass said:
This sad tale gets even more so. The ship that struck the bridge was carrying hundreds of tons of hazardous materials.

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I thought I read where it carries over 9,000 - 20’ containers. One would think the odds are pretty good that something would be hazardous in the 9k units.
 
A big problem with today's monster commercial ships is there are so few aboard the ship to station at every potential trouble spot.

As anyone that was in the Navy engineer type ratings aboard a larger ship can tell ya, when leaving / entering any port (called anchor duty) or underway replenishments, there are guys stationed in all the engineering spaces waiting for something to go sideways. Just in the after steering compartment, we had 5 in there. One to man the radio and 4 to man the cranks for manual hydraulic bypass pumps to steer it if the auto system failed. Only took 10 to 15 seconds to go from auto to manual steering. And that ship was 685 feet w/ a 46' draft (twin screw, 24' diam each, single rudder). ALL other propulsion and electrical spaces manned in a similar manner. That level of manning was from dock side to 5 miles outside entrance of bay / harbor / river and visa versa. That ship took 3 to 5 miles just to turn and crash back was painfully slow.
 
Gofirstclass said:
This sad tale gets even more so. The ship that struck the bridge was carrying hundreds of tons of hazardous materials.

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The ship was carrying 4700 containers, 56 (1.1%) of which contain hazardous materials. From the photos they appear to be 40’ containers. According to the news, two were knocked off into the river, neither of which contained hazmat. Another example of the ridiculous news reporting surrounding this event.
 
Baltimore port worker claims the Dali cargo ship had a "severe electrical problem" just days before it crashed into the Francis Scott Key Bridge.Container Royalty co-administrator Julie Mitchell said the ship was having issues 48 hours before the crash."Those two days, they were having serious power outages… they had a severe electrical problem. It was total power failure, loss of engine power, everything," she said. (CNN)Mitchell claims the refrigerated containers tripped breakers on the ship multiple times and mechanics tried fixing the issue.Mitchell said that power problems are rare on cargo ships like the Dali and that it should never have left the port until the issue was fixed.An officer on the Dali says the ship went "dead" and everything went dark."The vessel went dead, no steering power and no electronics... The smell of burned fuel was everywhere in the engine room and it was pitch black," they said.
 
I haven't seen any mention of the ship's speed in analyses of the wreck. There's a 6 knot speed limit in Baltimore Harbor just like in most other Maryland restricted waters. Dali was doing almost 9 knots when the problems started according to the MarineTraffic track, or nearly 50% higher than the limit. If the ship had been obeying the speed limit, I doubt the bridge collision would have occurred. The ship wouldn't have been as far down the channel, and there would have been more time to react to the casualty. It will be interesting to see how this gets addressed in the investigation. I must admit I've broken this limit more than once when nobody is around like at a dawn departure and crabbers do it every single day twice in my home river.
 
PlayDate said:
Keep in mind that the Bridge has stood for 50 years and at least 100,000 cargo ships have passed under it without a problem. It was fate. If it happened two minutes sooner .....they could have stopped. Two minutes later and they would have cleared the Bridge.

Saying they need tugs to clear the bridge will only make the tug guys happy......everyone else gets to pay for it.
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Actually, the Key Bridge was struck by a container ship in 1980. But that ship was only about a third the size of Dali and only roughed up some concrete.
 
alnav said:
I haven't seen any mention of the ship's speed in analyses of the wreck. There's a 6 knot speed limit in Baltimore Harbor just like in most other Maryland restricted waters. Dali was doing almost 9 knots when the problems started according to the MarineTraffic track, or nearly 50% higher than the limit. If the ship had been obeying the speed limit, I doubt the bridge collision would have occurred. The ship wouldn't have been as far down the channel, and there would have been more time to react to the casualty. It will be interesting to see how this gets addressed in the investigation. I must admit I've broken this limit more than once when nobody is around like at a dawn departure and crabbers do it every single day twice in my home river.
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Does that apply to all vessels? Around here there are a lot of "no wake" zones, but they don't apply to commercial vessels. You'll get tagged for violating a "no wake" and causing maybe a 1' wake with a 30ft boat, while you're being passed by a 800-1000 ft ship going at 10kts pushing a massive amount of water out of the way.
 
alnav said:
I haven't seen any mention of the ship's speed in analyses of the wreck. There's a 6 knot speed limit in Baltimore Harbor just like in most other Maryland restricted waters. Dali was doing almost 9 knots when the problems started according to the MarineTraffic track, or nearly 50% higher than the limit. If the ship had been obeying the speed limit, I doubt the bridge collision would have occurred. The ship wouldn't have been as far down the channel, and there would have been more time to react to the casualty. It will be interesting to see how this gets addressed in the investigation. I must admit I've broken this limit more than once when nobody is around like at a dawn departure and crabbers do it every single day twice in my home river.
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I'm pretty sure they need a faster speed than 6 knots on that channel since a higher speed is necessary to maintain a heading with current and wind. Even with that speed she started to drift immediately when she lost power.

I still think this is a maintenance issue that the boat had before it left the pier.
 
km1125 said:
Does that apply to all vessels? Around here there are a lot of "no wake" zones, but they don't apply to commercial vessels. You'll get tagged for violating a "no wake" and causing maybe a 1' wake with a 30ft boat, while you're being passed by a 800-1000 ft ship going at 10kts pushing a massive amount of water out of the way.
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PlayDate said:
I'm pretty sure they need a faster speed than 6 knots on that channel since a higher speed is necessary to maintain a heading with current and wind. Even with that speed she started to drift immediately when she lost power.

I still think this is a maintenance issue that the boat had before it left the pier.
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A good question as to whether the regs apply. I scanned the Maryland regs and they don't seem to make any distinctions as to size of vessel and make no dispensations for anything that would apply here. The NOAA Coast Pilot simply says there is a 6-knot limit.
I suppose there could be an argument that substantial way was required due to conditions. But, I can't imagine that bare steerageway is any more than 2-3 knots. I can't remember needing to go more than 5 knots in a harbor for any reason back when I was driving ships (albeit much smaller ships with more HP available than Dali has).
 
There is a marker for the inner harbor speed limit close to Fort McHenry. We run at cruising speed as soon as we get outside that marker, which is a ways before we get to the bridge. Maybe something different applies to these huge commercial vessels? They always seem to be running pretty slowly in the shipping lanes just before and after the bridge.
 
In Pudget Sound freighters go faster than most yachts and put out big waves. They also have designated commercial areas on charts where they have right of way. One does not cut in front of one if they are within a couple of knots.
 
lawndoctor said:
There is a marker for the inner harbor speed limit close to Fort McHenry. We run at cruising speed as soon as we get outside that marker, which is a ways before we get to the bridge. Maybe something different applies to these huge commercial vessels? They always seem to be running pretty slowly in the shipping lanes just before and after the bridge.
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I was going by the NOAA Coast Pilot which is a little ambiguous. I would defer to your local knowledge; a speed limit may not apply or have any bearing on fault-finding. It will be interesting to see what the investigation says.
 
JeffM said:
Another example of the ridiculous news reporting surrounding this event.
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Jeff, I got my information directly from a USCG official who was live on TV giving the report of the hazardous material on board.

I would hardly call that "ridiculous news reporting".
 
alnav said:
A good question as to whether the regs apply. I scanned the Maryland regs and they don't seem to make any distinctions as to size of vessel and make no dispensations for anything that would apply here. The NOAA Coast Pilot simply says there is a 6-knot limit.
I suppose there could be an argument that substantial way was required due to conditions. But, I can't imagine that bare steerageway is any more than 2-3 knots. I can't remember needing to go more than 5 knots in a harbor for any reason back when I was driving ships (albeit much smaller ships with more HP available than Dali has).
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Al, the first speed limit imposed is just after the port that the Dali left from (heading up river). It's a no wake zone from there all the way to the Inner Harbor. Boat's fly through the bridge area. I also stay at cruise unless there is too much traffic to do so.
 
Gofirstclass said:
Jeff, I got my information directly from a USCG official who was live on TV giving the report of the hazardous material on board.

I would hardly call that "ridiculous news reporting".
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I'd submit there isn't a cargo ship that doesn't have some sort of hazmat either as cargo or as a part of the ship.
The media will spout anything to get their two seconds. The term "hazmat" applies to so much more than it did twenty years ago. Heck, because my boat has lead acid batteries it is carrying Class 8 Hazmat.....
 
Skybolt said:
Al, the first speed limit imposed is just after the port that the Dali left from (heading up river). It's a no wake zone from there all the way to the Inner Harbor. Boat's fly through the bridge area. I also stay at cruise unless there is too much traffic to do so.
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Orlando, thanks. I guess I was thinking the Inner Harbor starts at the bridge but now appreciate the difference.
I did see a report on an NTSB brief today that indicates there was a total loss of power. According to the report, the ship began drifting to the right and the pilot ordered hard left rudder (with likely no response) and dropped the anchor. The puff of smoke was said to be the emergency generator. Looking more and more like the wreck was all about the loss of power and that there may have been little that the bridge crew could have done.
 
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