I knew that. I was just speaking in Southpaw's language since he's from MS. I also get he was making a joke. Figured I'd add my own humor and quickly google where a car battery recycling plant was in the south.
Glad we sorted that one out.:grin:
battery charge question
- Thread starter chazaroo
- Start date
I knew that. I was just speaking in Southpaw's language since he's from MS. I also get he was making a joke. Figured I'd add my own humor and quickly google where a car battery recycling plant was in the south.
Glad we sorted that one out.:grin:
chazaroo
New Member
UPDATE: Went out this morning and after being on charge overnight, it cranked strong and started right up. Having said that, I think I'll opt for safety and change both batteries next week. You mentioned Optima Blue Tops. Combination deep cycle and starting. I thought batteries were either deep cycle or starting. I didn't know there were combinations as well.What's the difference?
BonBini
New Member
I thought this very same thing too, Old school thinking! I've checked out these Optimas at the web site and liked what I read. Sitting out for a couple days taxing battery amps and then starting your engine with your batts drained to less than 50%, well a regular batt just don't come back to 100%. I curranty have one batt with one foot in the grave and the other is being read last rights. I am considering two Optimas as house bank and a third for dedicated engine starting.
BTW... I too had a ProMariner 20 but it went south:smt089...Ron
There are "cranking/starting," "deep cycle," and "deep cycle/cranking."
A cranking/starting battery has a lot of plates with a large lead surface area to produce a high CCA. To make this type of battery the compromise is a thinner plate that will wear out if deep cycled and lower reserve capacity.
A deep cycle battery has fewer plates and less lead surface area. The plates are thick. The compromise is less CCA, but thicker plates that will be more tolerant to deep cycling and have a high reserve capacity.
A deep cycle/cranking battery is a hybrid. It has fewer plates than the cranking battery, making them thicker, but more than a deep cycle battery, giving you more CCA than the deep cycle, but less reserve capacity than the deep cycle. It has more reserve capacity than the cranking/starting, but less CCA.
See Interstate website:
http://www.interstatebatteries.com/cs_eStore/content/product_info/marine_f.asp
See the Rolls chart:
http://www.dcbattery.com/rollssurrettemarine.pdf
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- Aug 8, 2008
- 2,998
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- A 300 DA 4kw Gen-set, central vac, electric head, windlass, AC/reverse heat, Lowrance 522ci GPS Char
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- twin 5.7 with Alpha drives
The type of batteries you buy will depend on the boating you do. I spend a lot of time on the hook last summer a six week cruise of the North Channel and only 6 nights at a marina. I have a 12v deep cycle/starting battery, not a true deep cycle and not a true starting battery. I also have 2 interstate golf cart batteries, they give me 235 amp hrs. I can take them down to about 90 amp hrs remaining and then I need to recharge them. They last about 3 days but with a Kool-a-tron running I get about 15 hours and have to recharge.
I looked at the newer GM batteries but was advised against by the manufacture with the type of boating I do.
Your original question should also be taken into consideration when buying new batteries. How long will they take to recharge with your current charger?
Have a look at the Interstate chart that is posted my batteries are the bottom ones on the chart 235 @ 20 hrs. The Optima are only 75 @ 20 hrs. that's a huge difference.
Ken
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chazaroo
New Member
UPDATE: My wife and I took a client and his wife out today. Cruised for about a couple hours. We stopped at a restaurant on the water for about an hour for lunch. Back to the boat and didn't have enough juice to start. Batteries not strong enough to crank. When I switched from 'Both' to '1' and then '2' I found one battery reading 12 on the gauge, the other didn't even move the dial. Dead on zero. I no longer question two things. 1: that I need new batteries and 2: Boy am I glad we had a SeaTow membership! Tomorrow we'll be getting new batteries. I'll also have the marina check the charger, though given the age, I'm sure it's a battery issue. The only question is what to get. When we're at our dock, we're on shore power. We're rarely on the hook and if we travel, we're staying at marinas with power. Given the location of the batteries and the difficulty of checking electrolyte, I'd like to find something other than a flooded type. From what Ken said, I get that the Optima deeps cycle may not be the solution. So who (if anyone) makes a maintenance free starter battery?
The answer to that question is irrelevant since you are getting new batteries tomorrow. You need to bring that request to your battery dealer. Considering your situation, I'd get the cheapest cranking batteries you can buy.
- Nov 26, 2006
- 7,628
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- 2008 44 Sedan Bridge
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Optima AGM Marine batteries. Not the deep cycle, but the CCA (Cold Cranking Amp) ones. They may be blue top. Mx free. Last a really long time, especially the way you use them.
- Nov 26, 2006
- 7,628
- Boat Info
- 2008 44 Sedan Bridge
- Engines
- Cummins QSC-500's
Straight Drives
On the lead plate thickness discussion, now translate that into a glass matt context:
http://www.windsun.com/Batteries/Battery_FAQ.htm
AGM, or Absorbed Glass Mat Batteries
A newer type of sealed battery uses "Absorbed Glass Mats", or AGM between the plates. This is a very fine fiber Boron-Silicate glass mat. These type of batteries have all the advantages of gelled, but can take much more abuse. We sell the Concorde (and Lifeline, made by Concorde) AGM batteries. These are also called "starved electrolyte", as the mat is about 95% saturated rather than fully soaked. That also means that they will not leak acid even if broken.
AGM batteries have several advantages over both gelled and flooded, at about the same cost as gelled:
Since all the electrolyte (acid) is contained in the glass mats, they cannot spill, even if broken. This also means that since they are non-hazardous, the shipping costs are lower. In addition, since there is no liquid to freeze and expand, they are practically immune from freezing damage.
Nearly all AGM batteries are "recombinant" - what that means is that the Oxygen and Hydrogen recombine INSIDE the battery. These use gas phase transfer of oxygen to the negative plates to recombine them back into water while charging and prevent the loss of water through electrolysis. The recombining is typically 99+% efficient, so almost no water is lost.
The charging voltages are the same as for any standard battery - no need for any special adjustments or problems with incompatible chargers or charge controls. And, since the internal resistance is extremely low, there is almost no heating of the battery even under heavy charge and discharge currents. The Concorde (and most AGM) batteries have no charge or discharge current limits.
AGM's have a very low self-discharge - from 1% to 3% per month is usual. This means that they can sit in storage for much longer periods without charging than standard batteries. The Concorde batteries can be almost fully recharged (95% or better) even after 30 days of being totally discharged.
AGM's do not have any liquid to spill, and even under severe overcharge conditions hydrogen emission is far below the 4% max specified for aircraft and enclosed spaces. The plates in AGM's are tightly packed and rigidly mounted, and will withstand shock and vibration better than any standard battery.
Even with all the advantages listed above, there is still a place for the standard flooded deep cycle battery. AGM's will cost 2 to 3 times as much as flooded batteries of the same capacity. In many installations, where the batteries are set in an area where you don't have to worry about fumes or leakage, a standard or industrial deep cycle is a better economic choice. AGM batteries main advantages are no maintenance, completely sealed against fumes, Hydrogen, or leakage, non-spilling even if they are broken, and can survive most freezes. Not everyone needs these features.
http://www.windsun.com/Batteries/Battery_FAQ.htm
AGM, or Absorbed Glass Mat Batteries
A newer type of sealed battery uses "Absorbed Glass Mats", or AGM between the plates. This is a very fine fiber Boron-Silicate glass mat. These type of batteries have all the advantages of gelled, but can take much more abuse. We sell the Concorde (and Lifeline, made by Concorde) AGM batteries. These are also called "starved electrolyte", as the mat is about 95% saturated rather than fully soaked. That also means that they will not leak acid even if broken.
AGM batteries have several advantages over both gelled and flooded, at about the same cost as gelled:
Since all the electrolyte (acid) is contained in the glass mats, they cannot spill, even if broken. This also means that since they are non-hazardous, the shipping costs are lower. In addition, since there is no liquid to freeze and expand, they are practically immune from freezing damage.
Nearly all AGM batteries are "recombinant" - what that means is that the Oxygen and Hydrogen recombine INSIDE the battery. These use gas phase transfer of oxygen to the negative plates to recombine them back into water while charging and prevent the loss of water through electrolysis. The recombining is typically 99+% efficient, so almost no water is lost.
The charging voltages are the same as for any standard battery - no need for any special adjustments or problems with incompatible chargers or charge controls. And, since the internal resistance is extremely low, there is almost no heating of the battery even under heavy charge and discharge currents. The Concorde (and most AGM) batteries have no charge or discharge current limits.
AGM's have a very low self-discharge - from 1% to 3% per month is usual. This means that they can sit in storage for much longer periods without charging than standard batteries. The Concorde batteries can be almost fully recharged (95% or better) even after 30 days of being totally discharged.
AGM's do not have any liquid to spill, and even under severe overcharge conditions hydrogen emission is far below the 4% max specified for aircraft and enclosed spaces. The plates in AGM's are tightly packed and rigidly mounted, and will withstand shock and vibration better than any standard battery.
Even with all the advantages listed above, there is still a place for the standard flooded deep cycle battery. AGM's will cost 2 to 3 times as much as flooded batteries of the same capacity. In many installations, where the batteries are set in an area where you don't have to worry about fumes or leakage, a standard or industrial deep cycle is a better economic choice. AGM batteries main advantages are no maintenance, completely sealed against fumes, Hydrogen, or leakage, non-spilling even if they are broken, and can survive most freezes. Not everyone needs these features.
Danny Troy
Member
Here in the Northeast they may be the economical choice when used in a car. I would imagine a standard flooded deep cycle battery will last many years in a boat, but in a car 3 to 5 years is probably all you will get. I just replaced my Optima, that lasted 10 years in two different cars. The battery even survived forgetting the interior lights on overnight. The battery actually had enough juice to start the car in the morning, and since it was a mini-van there were several interior lights. Optima is the only battery I'll buy now, for car or boat.
kevinnice
New Member
assuming that the control has settings of "off,1,2,both", then yes you would normally alternate between 1 and 2. my understanding is that this gives each battery a good load during starting and ensures that the other battery is good should you forget that the refrigerator is cooling the beers while you are anchored somewhere in the caribbean sea...
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Bodkin Creek George
Member
My rule of thumb on conventional batteries is 3 years max. Always pair them up so the charge and age is the same.
KHARRIMAN
New Member
- Dec 15, 2008
- 203
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- 2005- 280 DA
AIR,WATER HEATER,
5K GEN, 2007 DODGE 3500
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- TWIN MERCRUISER 5.0
BRAVO III DRIVES
Now that you're pointed in the right direction with this batt. talk I'd like to throw my nickel in for consideration! I just bought 3 optima blue top size 24's at the beginning of the summer and I love them!- Watch for a periodic sale here if you can.. sometimes the manufacturerer is doing $20 off etc.. and this will give you a base cost and a nice chart.
http://www.1st-optima-batteries.com/deep_cycle_battery.asp
As an aside... I wish I had gotten bigger batteries, with longer reserve capacity(RC). Check out the capacity of Lifeline batteries
http://www.lifelinebatteries.com/
of the same size as compared to the optima blue top. The lifeline batts are about double the capacity- but about 1/3 more in price! If I had it to do over i'd pay the extra to get the longer RC. It depends how long you wanna stay dependant on just batteries.
Also here's a thought for your setup and others cann tell me if it will work-
You can get one purely starting battery hooked up to "1" and a deep cycle hooked up to "2".(overall the cheapest way to go) "1" to start the boat- switch to both "2" to sit at anchor and run appliances...back to "1" to start etc... In that configuration though you would be doing alot of switching and I couldn't tell you if your charger is smart enough to keep them at the proper levels.
http://www.1st-optima-batteries.com/deep_cycle_battery.asp
As an aside... I wish I had gotten bigger batteries, with longer reserve capacity(RC). Check out the capacity of Lifeline batteries
http://www.lifelinebatteries.com/
of the same size as compared to the optima blue top. The lifeline batts are about double the capacity- but about 1/3 more in price! If I had it to do over i'd pay the extra to get the longer RC. It depends how long you wanna stay dependant on just batteries.
Also here's a thought for your setup and others cann tell me if it will work-
You can get one purely starting battery hooked up to "1" and a deep cycle hooked up to "2".(overall the cheapest way to go) "1" to start the boat- switch to both "2" to sit at anchor and run appliances...back to "1" to start etc... In that configuration though you would be doing alot of switching and I couldn't tell you if your charger is smart enough to keep them at the proper levels.
- Aug 8, 2008
- 2,998
- Boat Info
- A 300 DA 4kw Gen-set, central vac, electric head, windlass, AC/reverse heat, Lowrance 522ci GPS Char
- Engines
- twin 5.7 with Alpha drives
Once you decide which batteries you are going to buy you need to make sure your charger will be able to charge them. My Xantrex can handle 2 banks and I can switch the charger so one bank is for AGM. I would not want to switch to both when plugged into shore power as I would ruin the batteries. If you are going with the AGM's than you might want to get a smart charger with a Link 10 or 20.
Good luck with the batteries and the charger.
Ken
Good luck with the batteries and the charger.
Ken
