Considering chain rode on 400DA

W

Warren

Guest
One thing that has always bothered me is the design of the stemhead roller on our boat. The flat edges of the stemhead are quite sharp forward of the roller, potentially severing the anchor rode line in a blow. Sorry no pics and the boat is now shrink wrapped. To avoid this I have been taking the line rode to a bow cleat after it emerges from the roller. This is obviously not desirable either - the boat is anchored offset and would dance around in any kind of wind.. Like me I'm sure you also prefer sleep to anchor watch so I want to solve this situation.

The obvious solution would be to go all chain - the windlass, a Lofrans Progress 1, will handle chain and a snubber would eliminate the concern that I have about line abrasion but (a) the line rode is almost new and (b) I'd like to avoid the extra weight. Before I spend the $500+ on chain thought I would check this one out with you..

Any suggestions?
Warren
 
Warren,

I’ve never been bothered by that. I haven’t noticed any chafing, or a potential for it. In light winds, when the boat wanders, there isn’t much strain to worry about. In strong winds, the boat should stay relatively centered, no?

Have you considered putting some chafe protection on the rode? A sliced piece of hose or tubing could be a viable alternative to the $500 chain. At the very least, you might prefer it to tying it to the off-center cleat.

I appreciate the line portion of the rode for its lack of noise and eliminating the necessity of a snubber.

If you’re determined to go to all chain, I wouldn’t worry about the weight. The hull in the locker area appears to be plenty beefy and a diesel 400 is so stern-heavy already that the weight forward might be welcomed.
 
Though your main concern seems to be worry about line rode chafing, as RollerCoastr suggests, all chain rode can help a stern heavy boat plane.

A good friend has an '89 340DA, with v-drives and big blocks nearly against the transom. He switched to 200' of 3'8" chain rode to help the boat stay on plane, and to lessen the need for trim tabs all the time. I rode in and drove the boat before and after, and it made a big difference. I was surprised how much it helped to put a few hundred pounds forward. His fuel usage didn't go up, in fact, he feels like it's gone down.
 
A couple of things to consider before you make the switch to chain:

A single snubber is usually rigged to the bow cleat, so you will not avoid the sailing behavior with a single snubber line used with chain. I use a Y-shaped bridle that attaches to both bow cleats at the same time. You just have to be careful to get both legs the same length so that the boat hangs equally on the two - again to avoid the sailing.

When I had my 410DA I went through the same dilemma. Since I already had the windlass gypsy for rope/chain combination my solution was to use 150' of chain spliced to the original 200' anchor line. This meant that I was using all chain to anchor in most situations, but also a total of 350' of rode, without as much weight as all chain, when I needed it.
 
Great suggestions! Sea Gull I was considering the use of a double bridle to each cleat with a hook to attach to the chain as you suggest but I really like the idea of adding just 150' of chain. The 'Y' bridle will put the center of effort low to the water and avoid the need for chafe protection almost always. As you suggest, most of the time we try to anchor in 15-20' of water anyway so given the extra weight, I would think that 80-100' of chain would be adequate in most instances. And there's lots of extra scope on tap if needed.. Would you agree?

And Roller Coaster a piece of say 2' split hose could be very useful and potentially be used for other applications (over a dock line or painter, etc.) so I'll get one!

JAG I'm carrying 30' of 5/16" chain rode now so you are probably right an extra 120' of chain shouldn't weigh much, and it might improve performance too!

Win/win. Thanks again for the suggestions, I'd say that with your input I now have an outstanding solution!
Cheers,
Warren
 
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I know the edge your concerned about. It never really bothered me and for how much load is actually on the rope most of the time which is very little. I would consider maybe some type of edge moulding to prevent the chaffing that has you worried? I hate when pulling in the rode and it is off the roller. The problem then is when you get to the last 30ft which is chain and it is trying to pull it up the side of the chute and not over the roller. This causes it to jam and scratch the chute. Usually letting it out a few feet allowing it to re center on the roller helps. Another thing to remember is carrying, then feeding 200lbs of chain into the anchor locker. The factory setup was plenty heavy when we had to have the knot joint re-tied!
 
Go chain, all the way!
You won't regret it and as far as the weight goes.... your boat will run better than it did before.

Our bottom is rock and having a chain rode makes the diference between "drop it and forget it" and "dragging it all up and down the lake"
 
The previous owner (Sea Gull) installed 150' of chain in my 410DA. I can't speak for how the boat ran without the chain, but I can tell you that with the extra weight/chain up in the bow, I don't feel anything detrimental with regard to performance that would make me consider removing the chain.

I think it was Chad (Where's he been by the way) who once wrote about a time when the only thing that kept his boat in place was all the chain laying onthe bottom...the anchor never set.
 
Sea Gull said:
.......A single snubber is usually rigged to the bow cleat, so you will not avoid the sailing behavior with a single snubber line used with chain. I use a Y-shaped bridle that attaches to both bow cleats at the same time. You just have to be careful to get both legs the same length so that the boat hangs equally on the two - again to avoid the sailing...........
Click to expand...


Jeff:

Not to hijack, but I have quick question. When you used the bridal (I still have to make one of these) did you also leave tension on the windlass or did loosen up once the snubber was in place and let the boat ride on the bridal?
 
Once the bridle is hooked up I release enough chain to allow the bridle to take all the tension. I then let out more chain so that maybe 5' is drooping below the chain hook on the bridle. This keeps the chain hook firmly attached.
 
Thanks Jeff....I'll make sure that I have a bridal shower for the bridle....after I make it that is....:grin:
 
Of course with the bridle you then have it rubbing the edge of the gunwale where it comes off the cleat, right? I'm not sure trading one hassle for another (potentially more expensive one to repair) is all that great of a plan.
 
You have a good point Bill and I will have a closer look at that issue once the boat is uncovered. I am visualizing a nylon line snubber with a loop at each end to drop over the cleats and a hook in the center - perhaps a section of split nylon hose over the snubber line as it passes over the gunwale would work. Our previous sailboats all had chocks which would eliminate this issue. A friend of mine with a trawler has hause holes, another fix..

Another friend had a eye bolt thru mounted at the bow (with a stout backing plate) just above the water line for this purpose. I don't favour this solution myself but it is often used by long distance cruisers to snub the chain rode and place the load low to the water.

We may be micro managing this subject, but the opinions of others is really interesting. And it beats shovelling snow!
Cheers,
Warren
 
It does beat shoveling snow. We've been fortunate to avoid it this year, thus far.

Of course the snubber and/or bridle setup would be "one more thing" to deal with. Both when you're anchoring and then when you have to stow it. When we dock the wife usually handles the anchor, a bridle would require I go deal with it. For the right benefits, sure, it'd be worth it.

My only complaint about anchoring is dancing about. Powerboats tend to wander a bit on anchor. Where it's especially annoying is the hull-slap noise when anchored when the wind kicks up some chop. Makes for tough sleeping. I've tried some alternative bridling but have yet to find a solution I like.
 
You are right Bill it's one more thing to deal with..

However, for me it will be worth it. Going to chain will give me the security that I need, particularly with that stem head issue mentioned earlier. When we anchor my wife usually goes to the bow as you suggest, but the snubber would not be used until the anchor sets. I always go forward at that time so, using the windlass Iwill raise the rode about 6', attaching the snubber to the chain and lowering the chain again some 10' as discussed. No sweat. (the 'clink' of glasses can be heard somewhere in the background..).
Cheers,
Warren
 
Warren:

I don't see why you would need to raise the rode 6' to attach the snubber. Just attach it to the chain where you can reach and secure to each bow cleat and then lay out more rode as described by Sea Gull above.

Jeff....got any pics????
 
No photos that I can find. If I have plenty of swinging room I do as Dominic describes. This results in a bit of extra scope, so if I am in a really tight anchorage, I would pay out exactly enough scope and make sure the anchor is set, then retrieve enough chain to hook on the bridle and let it out again.
 
Yes that would be my approach Jeff. Do you have any issues with the snubber line abrading the bulwark as mentioned by Bill?
Thanks,
Warren
 
The lack of chocks is one of my pet peeves with these boats. SR is not alone though, I guess they don't fit with the Euro-styling.

We do get some chafing of the snubber bridle, but I find it much more of an issue with dock lines as these are in use more than the anchor bridle. I use chafing gear all around and this is helpful, both to keep the lines from abrading and to keep the gel coat shiny.
 
So to do the snubber job right, I gather that you would use a fairly light nylon snubber line (say 1/2" or 5/8") looped at each end with chafe gear (say leather through stitched with whipping line) and a ss. chain hook exactly centred on the line. The total length of the snubber line once attached to both cleats would place the hook just above water level if not affixed to the chain. Correct?
Warren
 
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