Damaged running gear

Was the rudder damaged from the previous strike and not discovered during the repair? The break looks so clean. What a horror show this read is. I hope you can get everything together and be made whole.
 
I certainly don’t know how this will work out, but my spidey senses are telling me I will be paying. So with that in mind while this gets sorted out I am trying to source the parts needed. i Would prefer new but will except used parts if need be. Flounder pounder has the rudder at a ridiculous price. eBay has a brand new one that looks very similar for less than 1/2. I guess I have to drop the other one to get measurements. If anyone has any good sources for parts please let me know.
 
Lawrence Falco said:
I certainly don’t know how this will work out, but my spidey senses are telling me I will be paying. So with that in mind while this gets sorted out I am trying to source the parts needed. i Would prefer new but will except used parts if need be. Flounder pounder has the rudder at a ridiculous price. eBay has a brand new one that looks very similar for less than 1/2. I guess I have to drop the other one to get measurements. If anyone has any good sources for parts please let me know.
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I wish I had a contact or two but a lot of boats were salvaged and parted out around southwest Florida due to the storm. There are several on this forum that have lost their boats or been impacted that may weigh in. Flounder Pounder specializes in NOS and new parts. The folks at General Propeller in Bradenton Fl may be of help to you on sourcing the parts for the boat. The hard part of this is due to the age of the boat, parts and information is hard to come by; even my boat is beginning to get difficult to source OEM and it is a 2006 model.
If I was in that area I'd be bending over backwards helping you out to get the boat back together. I have a lot of "experience" with running gear..... From the school of hard knocks.
 
ttmott said:
I wish I had a contact or two but a lot of boats were salvaged and parted out around southwest Florida due to the storm. There are several on this forum that have lost their boats or been impacted that may weigh in. Flounder Pounder specializes in NOS and new parts. The folks at General Propeller in Bradenton Fl may be of help to you on sourcing the parts for the boat. The hard part of this is due to the age of the boat, parts and information is hard to come by; even my boat is beginning to get difficult to source OEM and it is a 2006 model.
If I was in that area I'd be bending over backwards helping you out to get the boat back together. I have a lot of "experience" with running gear..... From the school of hard knocks.
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One other thing is, I'm sure the rudder packing gland/bearing really took a beating and quite possibly needs replacement as well as a thorough inspection of the hull area where it it mounted.
Also inspect the shaft log for damage. Sea Ray glassed and faired those in after the hull was pulled from the mold.
 
ttmott said:
I wish I had a contact or two but a lot of boats were salvaged and parted out around southwest Florida due to the storm. There are several on this forum that have lost their boats or been impacted that may weigh in. Flounder Pounder specializes in NOS and new parts. The folks at General Propeller in Bradenton Fl may be of help to you on sourcing the parts for the boat. The hard part of this is due to the age of the boat, parts and information is hard to come by; even my boat is beginning to get difficult to source OEM and it is a 2006 model.
If I was in that area I'd be bending over backwards helping you out to get the boat back together. I have a lot of "experience" with running gear..... From the school of hard knocks.
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Thank you, I am in a good spot where the marina is. There is a lot of boat builders and fabricators nearby.
 
Flyer5 said:
I'm very new to these propulsion systems. But I would think if the shaft was properly installed and the coupler were properly tightened, it would be very unlikely for the prop to be yanked out during a strike without more damage to other parts of the boat. Am I wrong in that thought process?
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The instant the shaft was out of the coupling I'd think the water would be the force that pulled the shaft the rest of the way out. The boat was on plane, once the prop shaft was no longer powered the pressure side would switch instantly and the force of 14knot water would drive it out.

But why did the shaft come loose?...easiest things first, coupler bolts/set screw not tightened properly. Was the coupler a reused dinged/distorted one preventing proper clamping force. I wouldn't be surprised if the set bolt was just a used cup point with less grip and not safety wired properly.

Or he could have just hit something and just doesn't know it...but then, why isn't the strut damaged?

I hope a diver can find his shaft, all us long distance trouble shooters could have closure, and it has the chance of saving the OP a lot of money for repairs.
 
Is this the one you are referencing on FP?

Bronze Rudder # 26387 for 1986 Sea Ray 410 Aft Cabin and others.​

SKU: BRZ-026387
Regular price $2,548.06


I don't have a problem with their price but the 8-12 week special order/delivery is a no go. I would find a used one with the same shaft diameter and roughly the same size rudder pattern and install it. The shaft is the important dimension. Any machine shop can cut down a longer rudder.

As @ttmott suggested.....make sure they inspect both the shaft and rudder packing glands as well as the shaft tube.
 
PlayDate said:
Is this the one you are referencing on FP?

Bronze Rudder # 26387 for 1986 Sea Ray 410 Aft Cabin and others.​

SKU: BRZ-026387
Regular price $2,548.06


I don't have a problem with their price but the 8-12 week special order/delivery is a no go. I would find a used one with the same shaft diameter and roughly the same size rudder pattern and install it. The shaft is the important dimension. Any machine shop can cut down a longer rudder.

As @ttmott suggested.....make sure they inspect both the shaft and rudder packing glands as well as the shaft tube.
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Yes one one on eBay looks similar have to see if it’s a match.
IMG_2170.png
IMG_2170.png
 
So your Rudder number should be 26387 and that is an Algonac rudder. The one on ebay is an Algonac 26357 which should be really close. Unfortunately the Algonac catalog does not go back that far but they may be able to answer the question for you if you give them a call.

Phone: 810-794-9391
Fax: 810-794-5700

Email: algonacteam@marinehardware.com
 
PlayDate said:
So your Rudder number should be 26387 and that is an Algonac rudder. The one on ebay is an Algonac 26357 which should be really close. Unfortunately the Algonac catalog does not go back that far but they may be able to answer the question for you if you give them a call.

Phone: 810-794-9391
Fax: 810-794-5700

Email: algonacteam@marinehardware.com
Click to expand...
Thank you the number I need is 26373.
 
Woody said:
The instant the shaft was out of the coupling I'd think the water would be the force that pulled the shaft the rest of the way out. The boat was on plane, once the prop shaft was no longer powered the pressure side would switch instantly and the force of 14knot water would drive it out.

But why did the shaft come loose?...easiest things first, coupler bolts/set screw not tightened properly. Was the coupler a reused dinged/distorted one preventing proper clamping force. I wouldn't be surprised if the set bolt was just a used cup point with less grip and not safety wired properly.

Or he could have just hit something and just doesn't know it...but then, why isn't the strut damaged?

I hope a diver can find his shaft, all us long distance trouble shooters could have closure, and it has the chance of saving the OP a lot of money for repairs.
Click to expand...
That is a really great thought to how it likely happened. With an impact it would be hard for me to believe any other damage like to the strut did not occur. Like it was said, the rudder shaft was likely damaged from the first incident and either got removed during running from the water pressure against from being on plane it or the prop going backwards hitting it.
 
Flyer5 said:
That is a really great thought to how it likely happened. With an impact it would be hard for me to believe any other damage like to the strut did not occur. Like it was said, the rudder shaft was likely damaged from the first incident and either got removed during running from the water pressure against from being on plane it or the prop going backwards hitting it.
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That makes sense.
 
When will the surveyor be onsite? Regardless, the rudder should be tied to the previous claim as an addendum I’d think, and I’d be interested to see what an independent (not the first marina) expert has to say about the shaft and prop missing.
 
Lawrence Falco said:
I certainly don’t know how this will work out, but my spidey senses are telling me I will be paying. So with that in mind while this gets sorted out I am trying to source the parts needed. i Would prefer new but will except used parts if need be. Flounder pounder has the rudder at a ridiculous price. eBay has a brand new one that looks very similar for less than 1/2. I guess I have to drop the other one to get measurements. If anyone has any good sources for parts please let me know.
Click to expand...
I don't know if your insurance is the same. FYI. Rudder, prop and shafts are NOT wear items. Meaning that insurance pro rates the replacement cost. What evet they cost you should sent that to them and let them know this is the best price you can find. It should be covered 100%. This happened to me when I hit a rock. Had to fight with them because the adjusted was way off. I won though. Sorry if this has been said already. It's a long thread..LOL
 
mnm99 said:
I don't know if your insurance is the same. FYI. Rudder, prop and shafts are NOT wear items. Meaning that insurance pro rates the replacement cost. What evet they cost you should sent that to them and let them know this is the best price you can find. It should be covered 100%. This happened to me when I hit a rock. Had to fight with them because the adjusted was way off. I won though. Sorry if this has been said already. It's a long thread..LOL
Click to expand...

All of the aforementioned items were listed in my policy as pro-rated after 7 years. The marina that did my repair work was clearly aware of this being typical and confirmed on the estimate that all items appeared to be "like new, less than 5 years old".

I bought the guy a really nice bottle of whiskey when I picked the boat up...
 
Flyer5 said:
That is a really great thought to how it likely happened. With an impact it would be hard for me to believe any other damage like to the strut did not occur. Like it was said, the rudder shaft was likely damaged from the first incident and either got removed during running from the water pressure against from being on plane it or the prop going backwards hitting it.
Click to expand...
Some quick numbers on the force of the water against the blade surface area and mass of the propeller shaft (worst case not spinning) including the distance to travel to the rudder the impact against the rudder ends up being incidental. Plus the blade contacting the rudder would be at the tip of the blade which would yield and roll over close to the rudder bearing (lowering the bending moment) further cushioning any impact . Unless the rudder was significantly cracked and ready to fall off I can't see this situation panning out.
 
Woody said:
I can't tell if the set screw was sheared or if it's a cup point that maybe wasn't even tightened down.
View attachment 155121
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As I mentioned.....the shaft lock bolt will tell you what happened. You did an excellent job of capturing the frame which probably confirms this based on the scarring......the shaft was yanked out of the boat and the shaft lock bolt was sheared.

Hopefully we get an update from Lawrence.
 
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