Marine Surveyor Incompetence

[Korkie]

Had a neighbor who bought his first boat to seasons ago. Boat was surveyed by a surveyor that was recommended by the seller. No broker involved. Yes, I know - 2 big mistakes, especially since he was a first time buyer. There were several things we found after he purchased the boat as he called me and asked me to look at a few things that needed some attention. Spkr not working, light not working, AC not moving much air. After taking a gook look around the boat, the aft bilge ground wire was severely corroded, no way it worked for the survey, as well as the sump pump box pump wasn't working. On investigation, the box cold have never been opened and tested as the screws (non stainless) were rusted and stuck so bad they broke of in the plastic box when attempting to gain access. A lot of lessons learned man times over buy the new owner. But this one took the grand prize. Boat went in the water this season, only had been in the water for approx 4 months after survey and again was taking on water. Turns out the transom assembly was trashed, I don't just mean a little worn, I mean ate right up. There is no way this was not obviously in very poor condition when the boat was surveyed. Question is: Is there any organization, accrediting, licensing, etc that this owner can reach out to file a formal complaint. It turns out in speaking with many boat owners and marina service persons that this surveyor has a very poor reputation. I personally had never heard of him. The boat is a Renker 26 ft cuddy with AC and Genny See pic of transom assembly attached.

 

[Golfman25]

Probably not at this point -- 2 years is a lifetime on a boat.

Some of the issues seem obvious, but some don't seem like a surveyor is going to touch. They definitely aren't going to disassemble anything that might break. Did you see the survey report? Certainly the guy could be a crappy surveyor.

 

[Brett H]

If he was certified, it was probably either by:
NAMS - National Association of Marine Surveyors
SAMS - Society of Accredited Marine Surveyors

 

[mrsrobinson]

I am going thru this somewhat as well. I relied on a survey done 3 months before I took ownership of the boat. I figured the boat had been sitting since the survey (confirmed by engine hours), what could be wrong? I did pay the same surveyor to meet me at the boat, do a sea trial, and go over his previous findings with me. The boat was winterized so I could not check everything.

Not working since I took ownership:

Anchor windlass
Spotlight
Shower Sump
Fresh water pump
Running/Anchor lights
VacuFlush cycling every hour
I was told the rolling cabin entry door "just needed to be oiled" - $500 later it has all new rollers

In your friends case, can a surveyor pull an outdrive though? I assume no without owner approval.

 

[Ramblin' Guy]

I can tell you a surveyor not to use in the Winthrop area, but you’ll have to DM me. It seems like these guys have a boilerplate they use and skip details that are hard to verify, which is what buyers pay for. They’re not cheap, either. I paid $1200 plus lift plus engine scan plus compression test for mine. Over $1700 for a guy that missed a lot of stuff he should have caught and would have saved me money and made my trip home much safer.

 

[Gallf1]

Most good surveyors carry liability insurance. I would first notify the surveyor of the issues and then work thru his/her insurance company. You will need to find a second really good surveyor to uncover all the defects to use as your claim evidence in your case if you have to take him to court.

Of course if he/she is certified by one of the accredited organizations, ask them about filing a complaint against him.

 

[Stee6043]

Most good surveyors carry liability insurance. I would first notify the surveyor of the issues and then work thru his/her insurance company. You will need to find a second really good surveyor to uncover all the defects to use as your claim evidence in your case if you have to take him to court.

Of course if he/she is certified by one of the accredited organizations, ask them about filing a complaint against him.

Liability insurance would cover the surveyor if they slipped and fell on your boat, injuring themselves. It'll have nothing to do with their errors or omissions during the survey. That's a very different kind of insurance that I suspect zero surveyors would carry.

Further, any surveyor with any level of training will have statements in their survey report that fully resolve any doubts about "guarantees" or "warranties" associated with their survey.

Your best bet is to leave an unfavorable google review

 

[Gallf1]

Liability insurance would cover the surveyor if they slipped and fell on your boat, injuring themselves. It'll have nothing to do with their errors or omissions during the survey. That's a very different kind of insurance that I suspect zero surveyors would carry.

Further, any surveyor with any level of training will have statements in their survey report that fully resolve any doubts about "guarantees" or "warranties" associated with their survey.

View attachment 130130

Your best bet is to leave an unfavorable google review

A good surveyor is familiar with most boat models and advises on the long-term suitability of the intended purchase and its equipment, particularly in relation to how and where it will be used. But as we all know things can go wrong even with the most trained surveyors, which can lead to a lawsuit if a customer claims financial damage due to work performed by a surveyor. Even if a suit is meritless, the attorney fees alone can be costly.

Merrimac Marine provides marine surveyors with comprehensive professional liability insurance coverage designed to respond to allegations of negligence errors or omissions as a result of work performed. We will assist you in placing the right coverage that suits your client’s risk exposure, including what limits and deductible make sense.

 

[Stee6043]

A good surveyor is familiar with most boat models and advises on the long-term suitability of the intended purchase and its equipment, particularly in relation to how and where it will be used. But as we all know things can go wrong even with the most trained surveyors, which can lead to a lawsuit if a customer claims financial damage due to work performed by a surveyor. Even if a suit is meritless, the attorney fees alone can be costly.

Merrimac Marine provides marine surveyors with comprehensive professional liability insurance coverage designed to respond to allegations of negligence errors or omissions as a result of work performed. We will assist you in placing the right coverage that suits your client’s risk exposure, including what limits and deductible make sense.

Agreed. You said "liability insurance" and didn't include errors and omissions insurance in your post above. Those are very different types of policies. I've never asked but I'd be surprised if most surveyors carry E&O insurance. It can be very costly. And with the proper language in the survey report, as I shared above from my most recent survey, a surveyor should not need E&O insurance.

 

[Carpediem44DB]

When I purchased my 44DB in 2015 the surveyor rushed through the survey and missed the fact that the AC unit in the salon was not working because he just turned it on, saw that it blew air and moved on. Turned out that after a few minutes it would throw a HP code as the exchanger core was rotted so there was no refrigerant in the system. It was a $2500 screw up for him. I complained to him directly and he refunded the $750 survey charge. I should have seen the foreshadowing since as I handed him the original invoice check for the survey, he informed me that this was his last survey as he was retiring the next day and shoving off for Costa Rica! I was surprised that he even answered the phone and even more surprised that he agreed to the refund. It took three months of equal payments, but he did pay. His Son took over the practice, so he did not want to burden the business with a disgruntled customer I guess.
CD

 

[440 Jim]

Our surveyor wrote up the windlass for not being functional. I showed him how to turn the breaker on for it......among many other items he missed or was not knowlegable about.

 

[Korkie]

In speaking with several members of a few different marina's, they describe this guy as a "BOX CHECKER". Although they also state he is very useful for doing insurance claims. The transom assembly was just the big item. There was no vent tube coming off the holding tank, it was venting into the bilge. The shore power plug cover was missing off the back of the receptacle, exposing the 120vac wiring. The head would not flush. He did advise the hook it up to freshwater system rather than drawing in sea water and that would fix it. ??? The issue was the breaker to the macerator pump was tripped and would immediately trip after reset and trying to use it. Just way too much wrong to have missed all of this stuff. Report had a few minor issues mentioned, torn seat, possible leak in cabin area as it appeared the carpet once had gotten wet although it was dry now. Should consider engine and sewage hoses be replaced. I just hate it when people take advantage of others and just don't give a #$%&.

 

[mrsrobinson]

Agreed, I think a lot of these folks are like home inspectors, just collecting a check and checking boxes, which hurts the folks who don't know any better.

 

[scoflaw]

These are the surveyors that the seller hopes to show up.
Worked well for me when I sold a 280 da

 

[Korkie]

True, but is it really fair to the unknowing first time buyer that is advised by the broker or others that the surveyor is needed to make sure the boat doesn't have these issues. The person you put your TRUST in to make sure you are buying a SAFE and RELIABLE vessel (to the best of the surveyors knowledge) to take your family out in to enjoy quality time together on the water. Not something that will put you and your loved ones in harms way. No worries, he will get his.

 

[Carpediem44DB]

The biggest problem is that many new purchasers are not advised well to take the time to learn about boats enough to even know what the surveyor is looking for. Like so many other areas in life they think that it is someone else's responsibility to "protect" their interest. New purchasers are all excited about getting on the water and joining the fun and just don't spend enough time considering every aspect of boat ownership that precedes the having fun part. There is no solution to this as the various magazines and forums are chock full of all of the prep one needs. One would think that given the investment people would take a minute to breath and ask a question or two before writing a check and loading the cooler of beer.
CD

 

[scoflaw]

Like everything, doctors, lawyers to the guy that cuts your lawn they aren't all 10's

 

[Pirate Lady]

I was blessed. Bought my very first boat from Gunpowder Cove, a reputable SeaRay dealer, many on here know of them. not only sold me my first 3 SeaRays but those sales guys spent the time to take me out often to teach me all about boat handling. I have often used “hit something cheap” on here. They taught me that. Dealers like that don’t exist anymore.
Miss you Don Rodgers, Bud, and Glen. If you happen to follow this thread. Y’all were the best!
PS. Was a private family business. Marine Max bought it in a hostile takeover. Ruined it. Shit canned all the knowledgeable sales guys and mechanics, ruined it, sucked the life out of it then dumped it. It’s a shell of itself, lost their SeaRay dealer license, ruined it FARK Marine Max. Fkn corporate raiders!

 

[bbwhitejr]

I have been fortunate. 3-SRs and 3-good surveys. The last 2-were diesels and the Cummins guys were great as well. No surprises. On the 44DB and now the 420DA knew enough to check the obvious myself. I always tell the surveyor when I hire him that I want to be in his hip pocket the entire time. All seemed to appreciate that. No surprises when I got the reports as I already knew and had taken my own pics. Sea trial, haul out, hull survey, engine survey…I am in the middle of all of it.

Bennett

 

[Woody]

The biggest problem is that many new purchasers are not advised well to take the time to learn about boats enough to even know what the surveyor is looking for. Like so many other areas in life they think that it is someone else's responsibility to "protect" their interest. New purchasers are all excited about getting on the water and joining the fun and just don't spend enough time considering every aspect of boat ownership that precedes the having fun part. There is no solution to this as the various magazines and forums are chock full of all of the prep one needs. One would think that given the investment people would take a minute to breath and ask a question or two before writing a check and loading the cooler of beer.
CD

I think a lot of folks are expecting more than they should from a survey. They do a survey in the middle of winter and wonder why the hot water heater, vacuflush, or other water related things got missed. Testing a float switch when you can just reach down and touch it is one thing...having to take the sump box apart to test is another, it ain't happening, every individual part of the boat is not inspected.