Mass Registration Help

Discussion in 'Northeast' started by Phil S, Apr 6, 2021.

  1. Phil S

    Phil S Active Member

    252
    Oct 16, 2020
    Massachusetts
    2004 300DA
    5.0 Merc B3
    Hoping to get help/guidance from any of you that did a new boat reg in Mass recently!

    On the registration form, it says (for boats 14' or greater) that we need to provide a title or a USCG "deletion from documentation" letter.

    And under the Fees section, it says there is a one-time charge for titles.

    I do not have the title yet.

    With autos, you don't get the title unless you buy it outright or once you pay it off the RMV mails you the title. So if you take a loan to buy a boat, you would not have the title right away.

    And wouldn't it be up to the seller (previous owner) to do a USCG Deletion from Documentation letter?

    I'm confused as to how I can submit a Registration form if both of these are out of my control (title and USCG deletion letter).
     
  2. Misterhelms

    Misterhelms Member

    82
    Jul 5, 2020
    Monmouth Beach, NJ
    2004 Sea Ray 340 DA
    8.1s Mercruiser
    My finance company sent me the title when I went to go register my boat then the DMV sent it back to the lien company.
     
  3. swaterhouse

    swaterhouse Active Member GOLD Sponsor

    640
    Jan 7, 2015
    Mattapoisett, MA
    2008 58 DB
    MAN CRM 900
    The boat still gets titled, but it goes directly to the lender.

    You also need to make sure you pay your MA taxes based on purchase date, not the date it comes to MA if out of state.

    The documentation stuff is a pain and although you can do it yourself if the docs aren't perfectly filled out they will get rejected.

    A documentation service is around $500, possibly even less since your not documenting again.

    I am also surprised the lender is letting you state register.
     
  4. scoflaw

    scoflaw Well-Known Member

    Aug 10, 2011
    cape cod mass, cape coral fl
    1999 Powerquest legend 260 sx
    502 mpi Bravo 1
    So you bought a boat and the seller didn't give you a title? More info needed

    " I don't have a title yet" ?
     
  5. swaterhouse

    swaterhouse Active Member GOLD Sponsor

    640
    Jan 7, 2015
    Mattapoisett, MA
    2008 58 DB
    MAN CRM 900
    Documented boats don't have title's. Titles are a state by state thing.
     
  6. scoflaw

    scoflaw Well-Known Member

    Aug 10, 2011
    cape cod mass, cape coral fl
    1999 Powerquest legend 260 sx
    502 mpi Bravo 1
    OK so it's documented then.
    So you need the certificate of documentation signed by the seller and notarized and a bill of sale.
     
  7. Henry Boyd

    Henry Boyd Well-Known Member GOLD Sponsor

    Apr 24, 2007
    Newburyport, on the peaceful and serene Merrimack
    ‘09 Sabre 38 Hardtop Express “Serenity”
    Volvo D6 w/IPS450 Pods
    What was the registration status of the boat under the previous owner? You only need one or the other, not both.

    If it was registered in a State, you need the Seller’s title to be endorsed over to you. It forms the transfer of ownership chain with a Bill of Sale that establishes value for sales tax.

    If the boat is Documented and you have an executed USCG bill of sale I believe you would have to do the following because Deletion from Documentation is independent from selling:

    There is no Massachusetts title on documented boats. The Certificate of Documentation and doc process covers that.

    1. Pay mass sales tax,
    2. Submit an executed bill of sale to document center and wait for updated document to be processed. You probably don’t need to change the name.
    3. Upon receiving the Document in your name, Submit whatever paperwork needed to trigger a deletion letter.

    Or you can pay the Mass sales tax, think up a good name and file the paperwork with a name change to the doc center.

    If the boat is documented I can give you the name of a great person who does this located on the south shore. They handled the transfer of our Sabre and the Sea Ray. Let me know and I’ll send you the contact info.
     
  8. Phil S

    Phil S Active Member

    252
    Oct 16, 2020
    Massachusetts
    2004 300DA
    5.0 Merc B3
    Thanks everyone!

    The broker (MM) did do a name change request on my behalf with the USCG when I bought it, and it was submitted last fall but the return docs have been delayed (long story short -- the USCG lost it :eek:).

    I wondered about this, as the seller was using the boat and it didn't have the MS ____ ____ number on the bow, so it must have been a USCG documented boat.

    I did pay the sales tax plus late fee :mad:

    If I had known it would be this much trouble I would have just kept the name :D
     
  9. Phil S

    Phil S Active Member

    252
    Oct 16, 2020
    Massachusetts
    2004 300DA
    5.0 Merc B3
    And the seller lived/boated in MA too.
     
  10. Phil S

    Phil S Active Member

    252
    Oct 16, 2020
    Massachusetts
    2004 300DA
    5.0 Merc B3
    I checked the closing docs, and they submitted: Application for Initial, Exchange, or Replacement of Certificate of Documentation; Redocumentation
     
  11. Henry Boyd

    Henry Boyd Well-Known Member GOLD Sponsor

    Apr 24, 2007
    Newburyport, on the peaceful and serene Merrimack
    ‘09 Sabre 38 Hardtop Express “Serenity”
    Volvo D6 w/IPS450 Pods
    Did you, or MM, Do whatever was needed to restart the doc process? There should be an email confirmation stating the documents were received by the Doc Center. Get hold of a copy of the prior owner’s Certificate of Documentation, MM should have a copy as broker. That, the confirmation email from Document Center, a copy of the Bill of Sale, and a letter from MM saying that a change of Certificate of documentation had been submitted (as broker) and you are good to go in Mass. Mass Environmental Police will accept that until you get the updated original. NH is also good, but Maine won’t. I don’t know about Ct &RI. I did the same thing with both the Sea Ray and the Sabre.
     
    Phil S likes this.
  12. Phil S

    Phil S Active Member

    252
    Oct 16, 2020
    Massachusetts
    2004 300DA
    5.0 Merc B3
    Part of the problem is -- since this was my first time dealing with a USCG registration, and everything moved so fast at closing time, the broker used a doc service company to submit the app. It was part of all the closing docs. So of course, I'm sure I ended up paying a huge premium to the doc service company, who dropped the ball and either never submitted it, or did submit it but never bothered to check on the status. When I finally got confirmation that it was "lost" the doc specialist said this is one of several that the UCSG has "lost" :mad: There is actually another thread going right now about how these doc companies mail out letters offering to handle the paperwork for you --- for a huge premium. Lesson learned here, as I unwittingly did that during the close :eek:
     
  13. Henry Boyd

    Henry Boyd Well-Known Member GOLD Sponsor

    Apr 24, 2007
    Newburyport, on the peaceful and serene Merrimack
    ‘09 Sabre 38 Hardtop Express “Serenity”
    Volvo D6 w/IPS450 Pods
    Phil,

    Doc services are kind of like lawyers, there are good ones that you hire and they work for you 100%, and then there are ambulance chasers. The companies that brokers and dealers use are the former, the guys who send out mass mailings soliciting renewals are the latter. Don't forget brokers and dealers want things to go smoothly for you, because if things don't go well, you don't come back for the next boat

    I've used doc services twice. The first with the Sea Ray in 06 that Russo (now MM Boston) recommended, and the second one that Boston Yacht recommended. Both worked really hard and I never had reason to think I overpaid for the service. And like you said there is a lot of other stuff going on while buying a boat, so some of it needs to be farmed out.

    We did our transfer/name change on the Sabre pre-covid and it took six months for it to work its way through the Documentation Center. So we ran the Sabre for the first season with a photo copy of the PO's certificate, a copy of the confirmation email, USCG Bill of Sale, and letter from the Doc service.

    This past year we have had slow downs of everything from Covid as well as record numbers of people buying boats, so if I had to put money on it, my bet would be that it got lost at the Doc Center.
     
    Phil S likes this.
  14. Phil S

    Phil S Active Member

    252
    Oct 16, 2020
    Massachusetts
    2004 300DA
    5.0 Merc B3
    Hi Henry

    Thanks for all of those details! I see what you're saying about using a doc service when it's warranted .... and also the delays. As a business owner myself, time is money and as much as I can appreciate it when someone makes it happen, I can get just as frustrated when they drop the ball. I think it's getting straightened out now, but for the premium they charge (3-4x the app fee) I would have expected them to stay on top of it. Boating season is fast approaching, and of course the Admiral thinks all of this happens like magic -- so I'm trying to get everything lined up across multiple fronts so we can get out on the water in early May.

    Really appreciate your insight!
     
  15. Phil S

    Phil S Active Member

    252
    Oct 16, 2020
    Massachusetts
    2004 300DA
    5.0 Merc B3
    Still dealing with delays due to M---Max and the documentation company. It's now been six months since the original COD app was filed. They are refusing to provide any proof that it was submitted and keep throwing the USCG under the bus, saying that they "lost" it. The USCG NVD has an online lookup where you can check the status of your doc request, but because they submitted the app again, I can only see the status of the new app.

    You would think that a documentation company who is charging a 400% premium -- just to submit paperwork -- would follow up when they don't get anything in return.
     

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